Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

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mtwentz
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:26 pm

Judge Giant wrote:I honestly haven't laughed as much as I did during the Jacoby 'Dr Amp' scene for a long time. Forget Wally Brando, this is the shit.

Woah. Unintentional pun.


That went into territory I never thought Lynch would go. I think it has Frost's fingerprints all over it, given his Twitter feed.
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby Judge Giant » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:43 pm

mtwentz wrote:
Judge Giant wrote:I honestly haven't laughed as much as I did during the Jacoby 'Dr Amp' scene for a long time. Forget Wally Brando, this is the shit.

Woah. Unintentional pun.


That went into territory I never thought Lynch would go. I think it has Frost's fingerprints all over it, given his Twitter feed.


Oh yeah, it definitely feels like a big Frost contribution. In fact, I think Mark's presence has been felt quite strongly from the 2nd half of part 3 onwards...
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby HagbardCeline » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:46 pm

Denise's Pieces wrote:Here are my thoughts on Richard Horne's lineage:
It's doubtful that DoppelCoop could have had time to go to the hospital, avoid any hospital staff, friends and family, and have relations with an Audrey that had JUST been nearly killed in an explosion (at this point we still don't know what kind of injuries she sustained in said explosion), then had time to allegedly set fire to Major Brigg's Station, and then high-tail it out of town. Doesn't make sense to me.
It's also doubtful that Richard is the bastard of Jerry or Ben- he would not likely have their last name in this case. Kinda like Game of Thrones. He's a legit Horne.


I don't think DoppelCoop set fire to Listening Point Alpha. I think Garland Briggs went there by himself, sent the ***M A Y D A Y*** message and torched. Then he spent 25 years on the run (hence his fingerprints turning up from time to time). Only to have DoppelCoop catch up to him and "visit" him as the voice on the box said, right before the events of the first episode. DoppelCoop then used Garland Briggs (someone who had been to the White Lodge and had the marking on his neck) in whatever ritual was needed to create Dougie.

The more I re-watch the scene of the gray entity in the glass box and consider what I'm seeing: It appears to be holding a glowing gold sphere. It starts off genderless, then has masculine body features, then female body features (with a male-looking head) and seems to be an inverse of the body/head combo in SD. I feel like the gray entity is essential to the Dougie thing. I really am making a lot of inferences though and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm completely wrong.
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madeleineferguson
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby madeleineferguson » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:51 pm

It feels obvious to me that Ontkean will make a cameo appearance at some point, given how often he's mentioned. Or is that just wishful thinking?

And yes, Jacoby's scene was everything. I do wonder why they showed Nadine and Jerry watching... they both seemed to be very happy, satisfied in their lives. Maybe they both already bought golden shovels?

I think it seems likely that Big Ed and Norma STILL aren't together after all these years. Perhaps after the events of Episode 29 it was discovered that Nadine was pregnant, and so Ed couldn't go through with the divorce. Wouldn't it be something if Nadine had a child? I'm hoping that Jane Levy's Elizabeth could be her daughter.
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby Fire-blog-with-me » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:53 pm

Cappy wrote:Maybe I am in the minority, but I really enjoy the DougieCoop/DroolCoop stuff. I think Lynch/Frost have effectively stripped away all of what we though was Coop, and left behind nothing but his most primal, childlike essence. [...]


I wholeheartedly agree with this post and the other DougieCoop/Mr Jackpots appreciation. Some additional observations/thoughts on this storyline:

DougieCoop/Mr Jackpots is not a waste of time for me. I love everything from the Jacques Tati esque comedy to the prismatic perspective, i.e. one fragment of the platonic Cooper (of which Good Coop, Dougie Jones, DoppelCoop/COOP/BobCoop/BadCoop, maybe Sonny Jim, and possibly even Chet and Sam also constitute). Within this prism, we see, as you mentioned, a primal pure innocent Cooper stripped down to the most basic morpheme of his essence. In particular, his intuitive/right-brain side.

I've also mentioned earlier that it displays Cooper's positive its and blessings unfiltered: good things come to those (deserving) who encounter DougieCoop.

Further, this is really the emotional heart of the story so far. It is for Cooper what FWWM was for Laura. Laura's fragmentation/prism was done in ways different and sometimes similar.

The emotional core of it all for me is in seeing the strong intuitive emotions that DougieCoop emanates and experiences but is unable to verbally articulate. From euphoric joys to profound empathy, from unconditional love to melancholy lamentation. It's all there in Episodes 3-5 (especially Part 5).

DougieCooper can be read multiple ways and each way is valid without being necessarily exclusive of others , as Lynch and Frost want. The reading can be equally of a man who has experienced a traumatic, abusive experience and is now recovering from that (a more psychological/sociological reading); a man who has literally endured 25 years in a +4-Dimensional space where laws of man and laws of nature i.e. Physics, chemistry, biology, logic on the human scale no longer behave as one would expect (but are consistent with the experiences of electrons or mathematical numbers etc.) and has now finally been liberated--this is a man who has no doubt experienced decade long cycles of sensory-deprivation + sensory-saturation + higher dimensional excited states... then thrust back into a 3-Dimensional, "rational" world and form (body). He is still "hot" and malleable, and his cooling down/return is taking time (more of a scientific/science fiction reading). Spiritually, his soul/body has experienced a rebirth and as such he is in an infancy/id/base lower state.

But emotionally? This is a man who has lost 25 years of his life that cannot be replaced. While it's portrayed in scant garde terms, the emotional core of it is that Cooper was robbed of life experiences. Important events and milestones, personal goals or dreams, these have all been lost to the cruel passage of time. It taps into the universal truth and fear of our mortality and the finite/finality of our existences. Even I, a 24 year old who just graduated university 2 weeks ago, have felt this sort of fear already and other similar regrets of what I'm doing with my time/life. I can't imagine the heartbreak I would feel if I were trapped in an extradimension for 25 years, only to return and realize I had not experienced marriage/my wedding day, the birth of my child, seeing my family grow, experiencing the aging (living) process with loved ones. Friends and family died that I couldn't say goodbye to (Major Briggs) or other friends sick (Harry), etc. Cooper's tears when looking at sonny Jim and when looking at the statue are heartbreaking poignant moments of a man filled with regret and deep sadness.
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby Panapaok » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:56 pm

madeleineferguson wrote:I do wonder why they showed Nadine and Jerry watching... they both seemed to be very happy, satisfied in their lives. Maybe they both already bought golden shovels?
Nadine seemed really into it, lol. She's the kind of person who would eat up something like that. Jerry is probably way too high to even realize what he's watching, lol.
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:56 pm

madeleineferguson wrote:It feels obvious to me that Ontkean will make a cameo appearance at some point, given how often he's mentioned. Or is that just wishful thinking?


The door seems open and that is very exciting!
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby Panapaok » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:00 pm

Yeah, I maintain hope both for Ontkean and Bowie. Maybe I'm setting myself for a disappointment but I don't really care. Jeffries has been set up as a very crucial figure. And we just know that Ontkean didn't go to Washington during the fall of 2015. But he might as well went to LA on spring 2016. :)
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Jasper
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:02 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:So, are we witnessing Alchemy in action?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysopoeia


I don’t know. Seems like we might be. Alchemy has come up before in some of our more far-out discussions.

For a while now I’ve been on board with bluefrank’s idea about the green formica table being inspired by or otherwise related to the emerald tablet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Tablet

In the European tradition the emerald tablet is the foundational piece of writing for the art of alchemy. It’s associated with the creation of the philosopher’s stone (which we interpret as mirroring the green formica table’s relation to the creation of the green ring).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher's_stone

To this I added my own observation that the lodge denizens take something base (pain, sorrow) and transform it into gold(en corn). In fact, they’ve got loads of garmonbozia sitting on the green formica table in the above-the-convenience-store scene.

One bit relating the tablet to a green table:
“C.G. Jung identified The Emerald Tablet with a table made of green stone which he encountered in the first of a set of his dreams and visions beginning at the end of 1912, and climaxing in his writing Seven Sermons to the Dead in 1916.”


Interesting properties of the Philosopher’s Stone:
“The most commonly mentioned properties are the ability to transmute base metals into gold or silver, and the ability to heal all forms of illness and prolong the life of any person who consumes a small part of the philosopher's stone. Other mentioned properties include: creation of perpetually burning lamps, transmutation of common crystals into precious stones and diamonds, reviving of dead plants, creation of flexible or malleable glass, or the creation of a clone or homunculus.


We’re already aware of the Dougie clone, and Dougie is wearing the ring when we meet him. A homunculus “has historically referred to the creation of a miniature, fully formed human.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus

There’s also some interesting stuff about colors associated with alchemy and the Philosopher’s Stone:
“The philosopher's stone is created by the alchemical method known as The Magnum Opus or The Great Work. Often expressed as a series of color changes or chemical processes, the instructions for creating the philosopher's stone are varied. When expressed in colors, the work may pass through phases of nigredo [black], albedo [white], citrinitas [yellow], and rubedo [red].”


So there we have the black and white floor, the yellow garmonbozia, and the red curtains. The Emerald Tablet completes things by giving us the green of the ring and the formica table (“our world”) from which it is created.

Finally, I’ll add a quote from the text of the Emerald Tablet which may remind us of words spoken at the green formica table.

The Emerald Tablet:
“This ascends from the earth into the sky and again descends from the sky to the earth, and receives the power and efficacy of things above and of things below.”

MFAP at the green formica table:
“From pure air. We have descended from pure air. Going up and down. Intercourse between the two worlds”

I’m certainly not saying that all (or even ANY) of these ideas are necessarily directly related to the ideas behind some familiar concepts in the world of Twin Peaks. I’m only pointing out some very interesting parallels, which at least provide food for thought.
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:08 pm

Great post Jasper. I wonder now just how much of this will be addressed by the series end or if we'll be discussing this 25 years from now :)
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby indyit » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:09 pm

mtwentz wrote:
Judge Giant wrote:I honestly haven't laughed as much as I did during the Jacoby 'Dr Amp' scene for a long time. Forget Wally Brando, this is the shit.

Woah. Unintentional pun.


That went into territory I never thought Lynch would go. I think it has Frost's fingerprints all over it, given his Twitter feed.


I think given the amount of words alone it's nearly guaranteed to be Frost. Lynch doesn't do more than a few sentences if he can help it
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Jasper
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:18 pm

madeleineferguson wrote:It feels obvious to me that Ontkean will make a cameo appearance at some point, given how often he's mentioned. Or is that just wishful thinking?


It's possible, and it would be great. I was very glad that Harry hadn't been killed off or recast. The other possibility is that these mentions are placeholders of sorts, in case there is another installment of Twin Peaks and Ontkean can return. They'd have to do something to explain his absence during The Return.

Incidentally, if we got lucky and Showtime greenlit more Twin Peaks, what would we call it? We can't call it The Return Part Two, because "Part" has already been used for the 18 sections of the "film." We can't start off with "Part 19", because parts 1-18 are supposed to represent a single film. The solution? Twin Peaks: The Return Continues!
:|
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby meowrina » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:25 pm

I think I liked this episode more than any of the previous 4 (except for maybe episode 3 - that Purple Room scene is my favourite).
Of course, there were some scenes I didn't like: Frank's wife was pure cringe, I'm not a fan of Jacoby's conspiracy thing (but I was surprisingly excited to see Nadine), and IMO one DroolCoop's Sims-style bathroom dance was more than enough.

But overall, this episode felt closest to the original TP than anything I've seen so far, I equally enjoy seeing both Coops, and I'm okay with more characters being introduced.

Oh, and about this mirror scene in jail - was DoppelCoop worried that BOB could've been sucked back to the Black Lodge? Or what did it mean?
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counterpaul
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby counterpaul » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:29 pm

Fire-blog-with-me wrote:But emotionally? This is a man who has lost 25 years of his life that cannot be replaced. While it's portrayed in scant garde terms, the emotional core of it is that Cooper was robbed of life experiences. Important events and milestones, personal goals or dreams, these have all been lost to the cruel passage of time. It taps into the universal truth and fear of our mortality and the finite/finality of our existences. Even I, a 24 year old who just graduated university 2 weeks ago, have felt this sort of fear already and other similar regrets of what I'm doing with my time/life. I can't imagine the heartbreak I would feel if I were trapped in an extradimension for 25 years, only to return and realize I had not experienced marriage/my wedding day, the birth of my child, seeing my family grow, experiencing the aging (living) process with loved ones. Friends and family died that I couldn't say goodbye to (Major Briggs) or other friends sick (Harry), etc. Cooper's tears when looking at sonny Jim and when looking at the statue are heartbreaking poignant moments of a man filled with regret and deep sadness.


Yes, absolutely. Thank you for writing this. The moment with Sonny Jim in the car--it is an essential moment, and it says so much about what this entire project is about.
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby madeleineferguson » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:32 pm

DoppelCoop looking in the mirror and seeing Bob was the most thrilling, clarifying moment of the new series for me. That was some ingenious CGI at work, and it was terrifying.

BTW, could anyone tell exactly what Tamara Preston discovered by looking at those fingerprints? Did they match or not?

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