Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:26 am

Snailhead wrote:Isn't the original Toad actor on the cast list though? We might see them together?


No, I don't believe Kevin Young is one of the proud 217. :?
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nick1218
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:58 pm

Glad you all liked the mirror morph so much. I find it barely noticeable. I watch on a big screen pretty close and didnt even notice, had to go back because of the comments here. I see it now but definitely could have been more obvious. Not say like the leland/maddie episode but just a bit more obvious.

so is this all Jim Belushi is? I know there are more eps left but I was expecting him to have a bigger role based on him tagging along on the promotional junket type stuff with Kyle and Kimmy & co. I know he will be in at least one more scene because in one of the shows (good morning america?) he accidentally mentioned a "party" scene. Still, odd how he was chosen as the token "new" person since his role seems so small. Ashley Judd or Laura Dern would have been better. Actually now as I type I did see Dern in an interview. But still surprised about Belushi.
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nick1218
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:38 pm

Just dawned on me how Dougie reminds me of Leo Johnson after he was shot. The parallels are obviously not exact yet it has some of the same quality

Too bad Dougie didnt say "new shoes" when his hoe got him some shoes

(or did he and I missed it?)
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Re: Part 5 (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:59 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
nick1218 wrote:
madeleineferguson wrote:Also... Toad has been recast.


yeah that was really strange, why call him Toad at all?


You guys know this dates back to the FWWM script/shoot, right? The same actor/character appears there, and is named "Toad" in both the script and the credits for TMP. This is just the first time it's been canonized in the show's dialogue.

I really wonder if anyone will ever shed light on the story behind this. The best I can imagine is that Toad became a writers'/directors' running joke on the show that DKL was only half-aware of, and he misunderstood or wasn't aware that the character had actually appeared on the show? You'd think Engels would have set him straight, but it seems like he can be pretty loopy when it comes to memory...so who knows. Definitely pretty funky. In my head, I just assume they're father and son.


what is "TMP" and what do you mean "first time canonized in the dialogue" ? I thought they mentioned Toad a couple of times in the 90s show. Isnt he the fat guy who was always eating there?
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:19 pm

Toad has been the cook at the RR diner for at least 25 years. He appears in the missing pieces.
I believe all these phenomena that our putted-up egos and busy ant minds persist in trying to label, categorize, penetrate, and comphrehend, all spring from this same uncanny source. This is the mother of all "others".
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:38 am

Soolsma wrote:Toad has been the cook at the RR diner for at least 25 years. He appears in the missing pieces.


It's both
http://twinpeaks.wikia.com/wiki/Toad
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:30 am

I know :)
I believe all these phenomena that our putted-up egos and busy ant minds persist in trying to label, categorize, penetrate, and comphrehend, all spring from this same uncanny source. This is the mother of all "others".
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhodes » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:56 am

Is Dougie's colleague who wants to kiss him, called Linda? (See what's written on her coffee)
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:00 am

Rhodes wrote:Is Dougie's colleague who wants to kiss him, called Linda? (See what's written on her coffee)


No. Elena Satine's character is named Rhonda in the credits.
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:30 pm

"You're still with me. That's good."

Image
To be fair -- I say something amounting to this when I look in my mirror and see that neither one nor both of my drop earrings has fallen out of my ear lobes~
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:07 pm

Rewatched part 5:

- Does anyone know the name of the instrumental music in the beginning of the episode when we see Vegas? It´s only on for a couple of seconds and I think it´s gorgeous.

- Lorraine texts "Argent 1592" to the black box. So I assume this is an address in Argentina?

- The headline-jokes are funny. I love Constance! And Mackley.

- So did Major Briggs swallow the ring as a last desperate attempt to give the FBI - who will find his body - a clue as to where Dougie/Cooper is? This plan gets more and more convoluted. Although this was probably not part of it.

- Love the morphing-effect when Mr. C looks in the mirror. Also: The sound design in the flashback where we see Doppelganger-Coop and BOB laughing is really eerie and unsettling. I remember how I excited I was when I first heard that the Doppelganger and BOB now seem to be partners instead of BOB having the upper hand in their relationship.

- Mike Nelson shows up for two minutes and gets a big laugh out of me: "Fucking asshole." :lol: Kind of funny to see him dealing with Steve that way because he and Bobby also were wannabe-bad boys and punks in their time. Admittedly not as screwed up as Steven and more attractive but still.

- This starts Harry´s offscreen in treatment-storyline. Even at the end of the show we don´t know if he will beat his cancer or die. Iwonder why they decided to put so many scenes in the Return where Frank talks to Harry and we hear about his bad condition. Maybe to humanise Frank, give him more background and show that he cares a lot about his brother?

- Doris´ hysterical fit has a much darker tone for me now, knowing that their son has killed himself. It´s like she´s obsessed with constantly fixing everything and wanting to control her enviroment. Understandable after not being able to do anything against her son commiting suicide.

- Dougie crying while looking at Sonny-Jim was always a moving moment for me but now I felt it even stronger. It´s like Cooper realizes what he´s missing out while being involved in lodge-shenanigans for the last 25 years wheras other people his age have a family, a house, a kid. He probably knows that after his mission he won´t be able to return to this family.

- Dougie is reminded of his lawman-past when he sees the statue in front of his office building. I really like all these moments where Cooper reconnects with his past by coming into contact with certain objects and sensual pleasures.

- Dougie is introduced to coffee at work and in comes the drum beat.

- I wonder what Anthony´s and Dougie´s relationship was before. Did they go out from time to time, having fun with hookers and trying their luck at the casino?

- It´s funny that Anthony comes across as more of a character that Tom Sizemore usual plays: A crooked gangster with a certain aggressive nature. That will obviously change a lot as the series goes on and he will eventually turn into a regretful crybaby. :)

- Frank enjoying his green tea latte makes me smile.^^ Wait a minute...now we have another Frank too?

- "He´s lying." Great Dougie-moment, Cooper´s intuition is still working.

- The assistent having problems leaving Bushnell´s office is hilarious to me.

- Something about Bushnell being serious and Dougie not giving a fuck is unexplicably funny to me.

- Fascinating to see how threatening and dangerous the Mitchum brothers seem in their first scene. They seem like proper gangsters you don´t wanna mess this. In the end of show they´re loveable goofballs, just like Anthony. Another instance were Dougie´s "pureness" turns everyone around him into a good person as well.

- That car explosion was edited really weirdly. They turn the engine -> cutaway to the little boy while we hear the car explode -> cut back to the exploded car with burned corpses on the ground. Really peeeculiar.

- Does the drugged-out mother sit in a different spot now than in the last scene? Or is it just a different angle?

- I really love the musical piece that is playing when the little boy looks out the window and sees the burning car. I really wonder what these two characters have to do with anything.

- We see one of many scenes where Norma is doing bills at her table. This is more interesting now, knowing that she has a franchise to run in multiple cities.

- What is Beckie and Norma´s relationship like? They seem to get along very well as if Norma is her surrogate grandmother. Would´ve loved to see a scene with those two interacting.

- I laughed out loud when Steven mentioned that he got " great fucking feedback today". :mrgreen:

- Boy, Steve sure likes his dirty talk, doesn´t he?

- The "Love how you love me"-scene is as beautiful as it is disturbing. I wonder if Steven ever came into contact with Richard to buy drugs.

- I love the people freaking out in the elevator when they want to leave and Dougie is blocking their way out, not giving a shit.

- So this is the start of the Jerry in the woods-storyline? He´s smoking a joint while watching Dr. Amps mad ramblings, good times.

- Speaking of: I love how Russ Tamblyn really gives it his all when ranting on this show. Him taking a drink after running out of breath cracks me up.

- I remember how the gold-digging shit shovels made me die on my first viewing, just glorious. My favourite part? "Allow 2-4 weeks for delivery." :mrgreen:

- So the military gets notice that they found another set of Major Briggs´ prints. That´s 16 in 25 years. I really forgot about that fact, what does this mean? How can they show up time and time again?

- In his first scene Richard Horne just comes across as a sexy bad boy but that changes quickly when we realize he´s in the drug business and sexually assuaulting young girls. I really love Farrons performance. Especially later in the show he´s a really hateful asshole but still retains a bit of vunerability and fear when interacting with Red and Mr. C.

- Snake Eyes by Trouble is really really good, I want a 20 minute version of this, so fucking cool and a perfect fit for Richard Horne. Dangerous, unpredictable but also kind of alluring.

- Warden Murphy is obviously scared when Mr. C mentions the dog legs and Mr. Strawberry. Knowing that the FBI just recently found dog legs in Mr. C´s trunk (episode 4 I believe) it seems like whatever business Mr. C had with dog legs couldn´t have happened that long ago. He couldn´t drive them around for months.

- So Mr. C does his magic: The electriticity, the phones go haywire and he is somehow able to make the box in Argentina - that Lorraine was receiving messages from - dissapear or shrink into a gold lump? I hate to admit this, but I don´t understand this situation at all.

- Kind of funny that Dougie works at Lucky 7 insurance and gambles his money away in the casino which is also dependent on luck.
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:30 pm

The box turns into a seed.

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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:22 pm

mtsi wrote:The box turns into a seed.


It doesn't turn into a shiny golden sphere. It's reduced to an irregular nugget, so I don't think that we can so easily equate it with the golden spheres of the tulpas.
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:47 am

Rewatched Part 5.

Coop looking at the "lawman" statue, and particularly imitating the gun, takes on a darker tinge in light of Part 18. I speculated back after the Dougie/Ike the Spike confrontation first aired that Dale seems to have violence embedded in his soul, almost as an instinct. Even if he does use it primarily to defend himself and others, I found it a tad interesting/disturbing that Dale at his most primal needs help using the bathroom, but can injure and kill with ruthless efficiency. The few posters who responded seemed to write it off then as Dale having not violence but protectiveness embedded in his soul. I think, after Part 18, it's worth revisiting this element of Dale/Dougie's development. But maybe that's something I'll mull over further and post in the Part 7 thread, or even the Part 18, as I go through my rewatch.

A lot of my posts on this first moratorium rewatch have seemed to focus on stuff that was never resolved/revisited. This approach isn't meant to be critical, so much as to catalogue for myself what wasn't spelled out, so that I can begin to try to put the pieces together.

So, popular belief is that Duncan Todd was working for Mr. C and Lorraine is a subcontractor hired by Duncan to kill DougieDale. Why does she call Buenos Aires? We all suspected the black box was Jeffries, or belonged to him. But we know Mr. C has a mansion in Brazil, and he and/or Jeffries killed an agent in Colombia. So, what's the deal with South America? Were Mr. C & Jeffries searching for a portal/vortex there? When Mr. C makes his phone call, does he destroy the black box to cover his tracks? Is the box his "answering machine," or does he use it to reroute his calls to avoid being traced (like the text to Diane being rerouted through a Mexican server)? Or is this the same entity he was calling in Part 2 when he got not-Jeffries? I initially assumed he was passing a message on to Jeffries here. it really does look like the black box shrivels into a deformed/corrupted version of a seed. I'm still not sure that the black box ISN'T Jeffries. Curiouser and curiouser.

Dougie's wedding ring is the other major unresolved thing in this one. On some level, I assume this was just a deus ex machina L/F didn't put much thought into. My current theory is that one of the Lodge spirits implanted it in Garland to lead the FBI to Mr. C so they would bring about his downfall and force Bob back to the Lodge. In a related matter, I wonder how Dougie came to be in possession of the Owl Cave ring, and what he knew of its backstory.

FireWalkWithMe91 voiced many points I intended to make, and I cosign most of his/her post. To address some specific points:

Firewalkwithme91 wrote:- Does anyone know the name of the instrumental music in the beginning of the episode when we see Vegas? It´s only on for a couple of seconds and I think it´s gorgeous.


Believe it's "The Flame" by Johnny Jewel.

- I wonder what Anthony´s and Dougie´s relationship was before. Did they go out from time to time, having fun with hookers and trying their luck at the casino?


I love imagining the life of the real Dougie. It seems like he might have had occasional depressive episodes that left him near-catatonic, which is why Janey-E doesn't take his behavior as being super odd (I believe it's this Part where she mentioned him having one of his episodes).

- Fascinating to see how threatening and dangerous the Mitchum brothers seem in their first scene. They seem like proper gangsters you don´t wanna mess this. In the end of show they´re loveable goofballs, just like Anthony. Another instance were Dougie´s "pureness" turns everyone around him into a good person as well.


I don't really agree with this. Yes, we come to see the Mitchums as somewhat complicated guys with some sympathetic/decent backstory (they were orphans, they've taken in the not-quite-there Candie). And yes, they go from wanting to kill Dougie to loving him, because he gives them a benefit (payoff on their policy). But I don't see them as having become nicer guys thanks to Dougie. For instance, if they suspect at some point after Part 17 that the new casino supervisor is stealing, I imagine they'll also beat him the same way.

- That car explosion was edited really weirdly. They turn the engine -> cutaway to the little boy while we hear the car explode -> cut back to the exploded car with burned corpses on the ground. Really peeeculiar.


I took this as being a budgetary thing: they couldn't shoot the actual explosion for some reason (maybe they couln't get the permit to blow it up on that street?). It isn't the best-edited scene in DKL's oeuvre, that's for sure.

- Boy, Steve sure likes his dirty talk, doesn´t he?


I thought the same thing!
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Re: Part 5 - Case files (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:46 pm

I just rewatched this episode and need help.

Spoiler:
1. Why was Briggs' prints found 16 times ("where this time?")? Did he physically teleport a lot while in the Lodge?

2. The Laura/Fireman creation music plays while Dougie is crying at Sonny Jim. It played when Coop says goodbye to them in part 16 as well. Maybe it's a family theme? (Coop/Janey-E/Sonny Jim and Fireman/Senortia Dido/Laura?)

3. Steven didn't have a blue rose on his tie did he?

4. I think it's suggested that Norma would often shell out money to Shelly back in the day.

5. Still don't understand the Argentina box.

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