Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Firewalkwithme91
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:06 pm

claaa7 wrote:
Firewalkwithme91 wrote:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, Todd definitely seemed to be Mr. C´s bank and coordinator. He didn´t take a lot of action, he just sat in his office and waited to react. This just occured to me but when he tells Roger "tell her she got the job" who does he mean by that? Tracy? But she already died at this point. Chantal also seems to already have a long-term working relationship with Mr. C. Or is this a case of time being nonlinear again?


haha yeah, both Mr. Todd and Ben was practically glued to their seats this season.

i'm thinking the woman Mr. Todd is telling Roger that she has the job is the woman i think was credited as Lorraine, the one with the hip hop beat theme song. and then when she failed he instead Ike The Spike to kill both her and "Dougie"... she wasn't given much of a chance though, was she?


Well, Richard Beymer is nearly 80 year old but what is Fischler´s excuse? :mrgreen:

Oh yeah, Lorraine, wow I completely forgot about her. There are just so many characters in this show. And she had a nice tune too. ^^
She didn´t get a lot do apart from getting viciously stabbed to death. I wonder if there´s more to her when I check out the next episodes that feature her.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:01 pm

Rewatched Part 3 tonight. Not too much to say on this one that hasn't been said, but...Naido feels Cooper's face!
Spoiler:
Paralleling the sex scene in Part 18. It was a mixed blessing watching the scene with the knowledge of Naido's identity. It added a layer, but also removed some of the mystery/strangeness.


"The congressman's dilemma" is destined to become one of those all-time great TP side mysteries!
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby alreadygoneplaces » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:03 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
"The congressman's dilemma" is destined to become one of those all-time great TP side mysteries!


Make it a spin-off prequel. Featuring Chip, Joe McCluskey, Mr Strawberry, Billy, Tina, The glass-box scientist, JT, Hastings's secretary, Lois Duffy, Chuck, Harvey, and Annie.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:35 pm

Rewatched Part 4.

The prison interview is a trove of cryptic unresolved comments. Did Mr. C actually leave messages for Jeffries letting him know it's safe? Safe from what? Was Jeffries planning on crossing over? Did he tell Mr. C he was planning on crossing over, but was lying? The true nature of the Mr. C / Jeffries dynamic is one of the most tantalizing things for me about season 3 (yeah, I guess I'll start calling it that). While I want to know more, I do think the amount of info we got preserves the perfect amount of mystery.

What does "I've never really left home" mean? There are a lot of cryptic references to "home" this season, but the question of where/what Cooper's home is is left unresolved. (I know it's tempting to say it's Twin Peaks, but he only spent a month of his life there. Of course, the town did make a profound impact on him. Perhaps the way Part 18 ends is truly a "you can't go home" metaphor on some level?)

Albert's "blue rose" reference takes on a deeper meaning in light of the Part 14 backstory. Presumably, they think Mr. C is a tulpa...so close, yet not quite on the mark, so much as the distinction matters.

Again, the Jeffries/Albert backstory remains pretty vague. It's still not even clear if this happened before of after Jeffries disappeared. I have to imagine it's after, as Cooper murdering an FBI agent (or being in touch with Jeffries) before the original series seems unthinkable. And given the later revelation that Gordon and Coop had a specific plan to infiltrate the supernatural world, it makes some sense that Albert wouldn't be particularly shocked by having Jeffries contact him re: Coop, or that Albert would still treat the two as active agents with high level clearance. But why in God's name wouldn't he have told Gordon about this contact? Maybe the Colombian agent turned up dead almost immediately afterward, and Albert was covering his tracks? And who actually contacted Albert? The real Jeffries? Whoever Mr. C called from the hotel room (see my musings in the Part 1/2 thread)? And why on Earth did this supernatural entity care about killing an FBI agent? Perhaps most importantly, why would the FBI -- a domestic organization -- have a "man in Colombia"? Perhaps he was infiltrating the CIA, as Denise did with the DEA? :lol:

I noted in another thread how odd it is that Parts 3&4 self-consciously dollop on references to the old mythology (the owl, Sycamore St., Arthurian allusions) one on top of the other, only for the rest of the season to ignore those elements.

The little frightened-puppy jump Kyle does when the limo door opens the door is beautiful. So much subtle work from him this season. The limo driver actor is great too, a bit put-out but so warm and kind at the same time.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:50 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Rewatched Part 4.

The prison interview is a trove of cryptic unresolved comments. Did Mr. C actually leave messages for Jeffries letting him know it's safe? Safe from what? Was Jeffries planning on crossing over? Did he tell Mr. C he was planning on crossing over, but was lying? The true nature of the Mr. C / Jeffries dynamic is one of the most tantalizing things for me about season 3 (yeah, I guess I'll start calling it that). While I want to know more, I do think the amount of info we got preserves the perfect amount of mystery.

What does "I've never really left home" mean? There are a lot of cryptic references to "home" this season, but the question of where/what Cooper's home is is left unresolved. (I know it's tempting to say it's Twin Peaks, but he only spent a month of his life there. Of course, the town did make a profound impact on him. Perhaps the way Part 18 ends is truly a "you can't go home" metaphor on some level?)

It's all so confusing... but I think the answers are here in the story. We simply need to connect the dots... and boy are there a lot of them.


Mr. Reindeer wrote:Albert's "blue rose" reference takes on a deeper meaning in light of the Part 14 backstory. Presumably, they think Mr. C is a tulpa...so close, yet not quite on the mark, so much as the distinction matters.

Again, the Jeffries/Albert backstory remains pretty vague. It's still not even clear if this happened before of after Jeffries disappeared. I have to imagine it's after, as Cooper murdering an FBI agent (or being in touch with Jeffries) before the original series seems unthinkable. And given the later revelation that Gordon and Coop had a specific plan to infiltrate the supernatural world, it makes some sense that Albert wouldn't be particularly shocked by having Jeffries contact him re: Coop, or that Albert would still treat the two as active agents with high level clearance. But why in God's name wouldn't he have told Gordon about this contact? Maybe the Colombian agent turned up dead almost immediately afterward, and Albert was covering his tracks? And who actually contacted Albert? The real Jeffries? Whoever Mr. C called from the hotel room (see my musings in the Part 1/2 thread)? And why on Earth did this supernatural entity care about killing an FBI agent? Perhaps most importantly, why would the FBI -- a domestic organization -- have a "man in Colombia"? Perhaps he was infiltrating the CIA, as Denise did with the DEA? :lol:

FBI Colombia:
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/legal-at ... a-colombia

FBI Argentina:
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/legal-at ... -argentina
Not taking any calls.
claaa7
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:38 am

Totally agree about the whole prison interview scenes.. These are super cryptic to say the least. If it was actually Cooper saying those things it wouldve been easy to connect. Perhaps the doppelganger knows that and as he seems to have access to Coops memories he did just that.. To try to fool Gordon into believing he was still following through on the Cole, Jeffries, Coop plan we later learn about.

The Diane scene is also confusing considering we later learn she is a tulpa who is working to some extent with Mister C.

I just have to give it up to the ENORMOUSLY CHEESY last known picture of "Cooper". Haha too funny!
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Daliz » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:37 am

claaa7 wrote:Totally agree about the whole prison interview scenes.. These are super cryptic to say the least. If it was actually Cooper saying those things it wouldve been easy to connect. Perhaps the doppelganger knows that and as he seems to have access to Coops memories he did just that.. To try to fool Gordon into believing he was still following through on the Cole, Jeffries, Coop plan we later learn about.

The Diane scene is also confusing considering we later learn she is a tulpa who is working to some extent with Mister C.

I just have to give it up to the ENORMOUSLY CHEESY last known picture of "Cooper". Haha too funny!


I think Mr. C is trying to fool Gordon he's working on the Judy case. He knows the plan or at least parts of it, BUT then again later he doesn't know who Judy is and is clearly confused when he tries to ask Jeffries "Who is Judy!?". Maybe he just doesn't know Judy by that name.

The real Diane somehow comes through occasionally from tupla-Diane, since sometimes she acts like the real one and sometimes she's the "F- you" tulpa-Diane. I think in the prison scene the real Diane is coming through. Maybe Mr.C controls her via text messages/she's programmed to do stuff when she reads those messages but the will of the real Diane is strong and affecting the tulpa.

Especially in the tulpa-Diane finale "I hope this works..." sounds and looks like real Diane, also the obvious ones "I'm in the sheriff station.." and "I'm not me, I'm not me!".
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby asmahan » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:34 pm

Just rewatched part 4... had totally forgotten about the scene with Dougie, the Limo driver and the owl. What a throwback!
claaa7
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:58 am

^ love that scene, the night lighting, Dougie tightly gripping the white bag with that perplexed look on his face.. very Mulholland Drive.

i'm actually just flicking through the unaired Mulholland Drive pilot on YouTube to see what differs in the edit (quite a lot to be sure, i think Sweeney edited the thing from scratch when it was turned into a feature). interestingly enough the scene where Adam Kesher is driving home while speaking with his assistant on the phone here has Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" on the soundtrack (just as Dougie's breakfast in ep. 4) so that is something Lynch has been thinking of using in his work for years. of course the Brubeck tune in "Inland Empire" is also from the "Take Five" LP.. excellent album btw!
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:05 am

claaa7 wrote:i'm actually just flicking through the unaired Mulholland Drive pilot on YouTube to see what differs in the edit (quite a lot to be sure, i think Sweeney edited the thing from scratch when it was turned into a feature).


Is the full thing on YouTube? Could you PM a link? :mrgreen:

My understanding is that the initial Pilot edit was close to the film but ABC forced him to cut it from 100-something minutes to 87, killing the moodiness of a lot of the scenes.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:27 pm

If Naido is

Spoiler:
the real Diane, why does she keep Coop from going through gateway #15 where he would have switched places with Mr. C and Mr. C would have returned to the lodge? Would it have prevented Bob from being destroyed and left Janey-E with a dead husband assuming Dougie would have been shot? Was this part of the plan to destroy Judy?
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby krishnanspace » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:55 am

Hester Prynne wrote:If Naido is

Spoiler:
the real Diane, why does she keep Coop from going through gateway #15 where he would have switched places with Mr. C and Mr. C would have returned to the lodge? Would it have prevented Bob from being destroyed and left Janey-E with a dead husband assuming Dougie would have been shot? Was this part of the plan to destroy Judy?

Spoiler:
If Cooper went through #15 he would have come out in Mr.C's car and the original Dougie would have still gone back to the lodge as he puked before Mr.C.So if Cooper was in Mr.C's car,Mr.C would have easily killed him
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:17 pm

Fun with freeze frame (courtesy of the Blu Ray).

When Gene gets out of his car to put the bomb on Dougie’s Ford, a bank foreclosure sign bears the name of a representative, first name “Roswell” (last name tough to make out). Presumably a nod to Mark’s fascinations!

The chocolate bunny box is very similar to the one glimpsed in the Pilot, but differs in certain key ways (particularly width). Perhaps of note: in the Pilot, it appears that all four bunnies are still wrapped. In Part 3, two are entirely gone, one is partially opened, and only one remains fully wrapped. IS it about the bunnies?

Neat little detail I hadn’t noticed before: when Dougie is tilting at the revolving door, a statue depicting a herd of white horses can be seen directly inside the Silver Mustang lobby.

“The Congressman’s dilemma”: the property tag for the pliers reveals the name of the Congressman, Theodore Rummel, which should make for a great TP trivia question for many years to come! (Also, it appears that the evidence was recovered 9/16, which lends credence to the 9/22 date for Mr. C’s arrest as being intentionally canonical).
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:25 am

Yes, Mr Reindeer, it is about the bunnies. The crucial thing is to understand that Lucy is the one that connects.

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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:35 pm

One of the shots of Sabrina Southerland/floor attendant Jackie running is blatantly flipped — all the names on the slot machines are reversed. Wonder why DKL bothered doing that; it doesn’t make the shot any more dynamic or interesting, and it’s distracting once you notice it. Really stretching — might this relate to Mr . C’s flipped fingerprint?

I’m pretty sure Silver Mustang Supervisor Burns has the same clock on his wall that Sue had in INLAND EMPIRE, but only the very bottom is glimpsed in this Part. I’ll have to keep an eye out in later Parts when we return to the office.

Among the materials spread on the sheriff’s station conference table are a photo of Leland, and the photo of Laura and Audrey in snow caps and winter clothes (but only Laura is visible — Audrey’s half of the photo is strategically covered with other documents).

I really wonder how much attention DKL paid to “Cooper”’s arrest info. He does a very deliberate closeup on the screen, and although Coop’s DOB being the same as Bill Hastings’s (making Coop 15 years old in the Pilot) seems like a pretty clear-cut error, does this (along with Coop’s birthplace being listed as Buckhorn) perhaps hint at some Lost Highway-type relationship between Cooper and Hastings? I’m hesitant to say that, because I have been vocally in the “DKL doesn’t play puzzle box games” camp....but certain elements of the show (such as the Sarah/Jumping Man freeze frame) suggest that maybe he is doing just that on this show. And certain elements of Cooper’s arrest screen clearly benefit from very close attention to detail (the PA residency address, Philadelphia office address, and especially the fact that the left ring fingerprint is indeed flipped, caption and all, as we will learn later....on the other hand, his height is listed as 6’0” — Kyle’s actual height — but his mugshot appears to show him measuring 78”).

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