Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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ringbearer
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby ringbearer » Mon May 22, 2017 3:32 pm

Stayed up till 5a.m. watching episodes 1,2 &3, and went to bed very sad and dejected. I've just now rewatched everything, and it was a completely different experience. It's like I wasn't accepting enough last night. I was so hung up on how badCoop was portrayed, the nasty vfx (I work in vfx), the lack of Angelo, and the tree. But this time around it all played great! I'm really into it now, and excited about the upcoming episodes.

Don't know if anyone else has brought this up yet, but could dougieCoop turn out to be another badCoop? With the timing of his appearance in the glass box?
Neosmith
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Neosmith » Mon May 22, 2017 3:34 pm

bastia wrote:Hello guys.

In the beginning i thought Coop was "ill" cause of the 25 years spent in the lodge. But then i re watched and I've seen that in the lodge he's "fine" (fine is a euphemism. I know.). I mean, he was totally able to interact and understand. He also talked, as if he was the old Coop.

So i found this really strange. Why when in earth is not sane anymore? Only the shock of the "trip"? The new(old) dimension?
Or maybe it's because bad Coop has his "brain and experience" there on earth? Maybe that's a side effect of the "trick" bad Coop used.

What do you think?


I believe the transfer process via the portal from the world of non-existence fried his brains.

Remember, the black lodge has some connection to electricity - this may very well be the spirits' medium of travel in the real world - and Cooper was seemingly hit with a large dose of it every time he tried to leave through the aperture.

And electric shocks are known to cause brain damage and memory loss.

The camerawork, editing, etc. strongly implies that he was supposed to exist through the round electrical outlet in Cob's car at 2:53 pm. But because of Cob's manipulations, Cooper wound up traveling out to where Doug was previously - again via electrical outlet.

So, basically, Cooper became one with electricity to leave, loses memory and gets aphasia as consequence.
Last edited by Neosmith on Mon May 22, 2017 3:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Valaquen
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Valaquen » Mon May 22, 2017 3:37 pm

Dougie I suppose is an offshoot of BadCoop/BOB, just like how MIKE severed his arm and spawned TMFAP. A loop hole of sorts that allows BOB to remain in our world.
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StrangerDanger
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The Ball of Light

Postby StrangerDanger » Mon May 22, 2017 3:42 pm

Please could somebody pinpoint to me where the "ball of light" is seen in Series 3 Pt. 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 ?

I would need a time co-ordinate. I guess the timer would be t=00 @ start of Pt. 1 and t=end @ end of Pt. 4.
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[ I've permanently left the forum ... Dugpa is a dodgy name, plus l'm too busy. Keep the :?: :idea: ]
bastia
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby bastia » Mon May 22, 2017 3:45 pm

Valaquen wrote:Dougie I suppose is an offshoot of BadCoop/BOB, just like how MIKE severed his arm and spawned TMFAP. A loop hole of sorts that allows BOB to remain in our world.



I am not sure that bad Coop is BOB
Adam_Ziggy
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Adam_Ziggy » Mon May 22, 2017 3:50 pm

Knowing how Lynch pays attention to details, it was kind of funny seeing those badly photoshoped pictures (demon victims) and Brennan family photo
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon May 22, 2017 3:54 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:Anybody notice any dates like what year the show takes place in?


Nope! And I was lookin'. Considering that TSHoTP has Tamara seemingly first hear of Coop in August 2016, months after series filming wrapped, I wonder if the show keeps the date deliberately ambiguous.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Mon May 22, 2017 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Neosmith
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Neosmith » Mon May 22, 2017 3:55 pm

bastia wrote:
Valaquen wrote:Dougie I suppose is an offshoot of BadCoop/BOB, just like how MIKE severed his arm and spawned TMFAP. A loop hole of sorts that allows BOB to remain in our world.



I am not sure that bad Coop is BOB

It never entirely made a lot of sense, but it's pretty much established in Episode 2 that Cooper's Evil Doppelganger combined with Bob and left the Lodge. That is, the Evil Cooper + Bob = Evil Cob.
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Moggerz
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Moggerz » Mon May 22, 2017 4:11 pm

As far as i can tell (didn't notice it the first time but did the 2nd time watching) the "transporting" machine early in part 3 shocks Cooper and he clearly becomes numb right before he gets sucked in.

Saw someone mentioning the number 7 before. Upon watching all 4 parts a second time, the nr 7 seems to appear a lot!

Did get a senile vibe off of Dougie during breakfast.

Loved the owl in the kitchencorner and the blue and red hearts on the fridge!


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adl345
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby adl345 » Mon May 22, 2017 4:39 pm

Having now had the day to consider it, here's my conclusion on the Wally scene: Terrible to watch, hilarious to remember.

I base that on the fact that I hated it while watching last night, yet I've found myself laughing whenever thinking back on it today. No idea if that was what Lynch was going for.
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Solitude
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Solitude » Mon May 22, 2017 4:41 pm

It's finally damn time to stop lurking and to say hello to everyone. I've read you for quite a while, a verbal virgin. If this reads as lame or if i've made up words, i'm Argentinian. Sorry for the unending italics.
Seems to me that Lynch has become a strange blend of Thomas Pynchon and Tao Lin, an extreme absurdist, somehow apathetic. My first reaction to the whole was like "will this be an enormous exploration of senility? will it be just a masturbatory act? it kind of borders self-parody, doesn't it? will all of the returning characters turn into an overly exaggerated, ridiculized version of themselves? are all these numbers substantial? chocolate bunnies?". It was so exhausting, dense, viscous. We can reformulate that overused Judy joke with the CGI. And i can go on sounding a little pedantic.
But: upset, uncomfortable and disrupted, you guys. Those are my favorite, um... sensations to experience after being in touch with some kind of art form. I just adore INLAND EMPIRE. This time i'm not completely sold, but i'm glad that there is a developing story or stories, a sort of path. Although i don't think we'll ever see Hailey Gates again and what was the point of that?. There's no need for a point. An image. That, was a good one. I would even say harmonius. Naido's wasn't. I'm making some silly contradictions here. That's how i feel right now.

All will continue to sink in. An hour is gone and i'm totally loving it. Now i understand, these digestion. Heck, i even liked watching Jacoby and his golden shovels. Reaffirming the fanboy self.

My flesh will be sliced the 4th. Grace Zabriskie, brutal f ing murder.

Catherine Coulson delivered the most heart-shattering performance ever. All my love goes to her.
Aerozhul
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Aerozhul » Mon May 22, 2017 4:48 pm

Ross wrote:
mtwentz wrote:Is Dougie any sillier than Windom Earle playing flute in his PJs?

I think so yes. Not Dougie himself, but the reactions, or non-reactions, of the people around him are more absurd than anything in S2 to me. Is his wife also an idiot? Her husband can't dress himself, talk, or go to the bathroom on his own and she doesn't call a doctor? I also think some of the Lucy humor is more broad then her stuff from the original.


Thank you. I thought the same on both counts! When did Lucy get so stupid? She was pretty with it in the original - Andy's behavior is at least somewhat consistent, but both of them now seem to be very low-functioning. The Andy/Lucy scenes so far have grated on my nerves....
BloodyHeartland
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby BloodyHeartland » Mon May 22, 2017 4:59 pm

Newish fan here. Not to make this an introduction or anything, just to give an idea of where I'm coming from with what my first impressions of these new episodes are.

Born on Nov 21 1991, so this show was a bit before my time for the most part. Cartoons were fine, grew up with Sailor Moon and later things like Ed Edd n Eddy, Beavis and Butthead. Sometimes but very rarely things like Twilight Zone or Three Stooges. Paranoia Agent was my first foray into anything serious and Lost was my first for something not Japanese. Since then there hasn't been much unfortunately; Downton Abbey seemed good but kind of full of itself, same with the Mentalist, and unfortunately didn't have much time for Resurrection or Person of Interest. Books were more my thing, mostly Stephen King, but not much of those either.

Video games have been my favored medium even if they don't necessarily have the most polished or complex stories. Stuff like The Last Guardian, Nier and now its sequel Automata, Bloodborne, Okami, Killer7 to which I owe my name here, all have left lasting impressions, just to list a few. It wasn't until after I played something called Deadly Premonition that I learned of the show that would compete with Lost as my favorite.

Don't really know the demographics, but I imagine a lot of people watching now probably watched when the first two seasons aired, so I'm unsure how many have heard of DP at all perhaps other than that it's almost a blatant ripoff of this. Even so, I still love it, and looking at all the similarities as well as differences interests me so much, between both Cooper and York both being unorthodox and yet the former is so much better with social interaction than the latter. The biggest intrigue being that DP was a finished product when made, while I've been stuck waiting to see what might come of TP for a couple years now, resorting to the movie and the diary of Laura Palmer for any kind of closure.

Speaking of, definitely not much of a movie buff. I think I could list all of maybe a dozen movies I really like and more than half are based on books. So I guess FWWM is on that list. In some respects disappointing, mostly with the actress they got for Donna just being way off. Overall still pretty good, and was cool seeing the main guy from Paris, Texas in there right after watching that.

Anyway, to make a long story short, my views might not mesh, being of a newer generation, but a lot of these more conventional stories nowadays do leave me a little cynical. Things like raunchy sex scenes or gore do have me wondering how much Showtime has got to meddle for the sake of gaining views, but then it's not far off from how FWWM was at least.

I'm not sure I'll go into any theories as I'm not sure I even understood everything before anyway, and it's been a while. Maybe I'll just leave it at that there being two Coopers in the world at once(three total counting Dougie, also makes me wonder just how much of a long con Bob planned ahead...maybe the whole unlinear time in the Black Lodge thing played to his advantage?) totally threw off my thoughts on the scifi aspect being purely psychological, and that Leland and Laura and others like them were just deeply troubled people. Maybe that just makes them easier targets, I guess?

So actually getting on to these new episodes, aside from really minor stuff, I think I enjoyed them. I wasn't quite sure what to expect, which I also really like. I'm glad to see familiar people and places but I do think seeing new locales has been a bit crucial for realizing the scope of the problems that are being caused by the Black Lodge and etc. Kind of also similar to the first half of FWWM. That and the blue rose that keeps being mentioned, I guess maybe I've got some clarification of that now if I've got it right. Something that shouldn't be possible and yet it is, also an otherworldly twin maybe.

I will say some of the cgi effects have been pretty goofy. Most I don't mind, being that they are sort of surreal, but Briggs in space was kind of hilarious and really bad, think just his voice would have sufficed. But then I don't have much room to talk with things like Lost's infamous submarine or submerged foot statue.

Lastly, on the subject of people not reacting much to senile Cooper, in retrospect I do think it's a bit unrealistic, however I think at the same time that a lot of these people would just want to pass him off to someone else hoping they'll take care of it instead. As far as his wife, well, maybe it's apples to oranges, but perhaps not too far from the Palmers with the willful ignorance of the drugging and the abuse going on - at least that was my interpretation. Here it's a lot more lighthearted at least, Sonnie just thinking his dad's being silly but with a bit of nervous laughter and mom too distracted in her own world a mile a minute.

Gonna be a long wait holding out for more. Admittedly haven't seen any of Lynch's other works, so maybe I'll kill some time with those for now.
Manwith
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Manwith » Mon May 22, 2017 5:04 pm

bastia wrote:Hello guys.

In the beginning i thought Coop was "ill" cause of the 25 years spent in the lodge. But then i re watched and I've seen that in the lodge he's "fine" (fine is a euphemism. I know.). I mean, he was totally able to interact and understand. He also talked, as if he was the old Coop.
What do you think?


I think you can't really evaluate if someone is normal or sane in the lodge. Dialogue ends up garbled when people try to speak there, according to Laura. Suppose someone said something to Cooper and Cooper nodded. Does that mean he really understands or is he just agreeing with anything said to him out of politeness?

Also some of Cooper's lines just repeat lines from the original show "Are You Laura Palmer?" Is Cooper just parroting the same dialogue over and over again for 25 years? Has he lost his mind at this point? Also he seems to not have a body in the Lodge, does having a body again and being subject to gravity again put him into shock?

Also when Cooper gets back to earth does he even realize he isn't in the Lodge anymore? After you've been to space and an ocean and a black and white room and see a woman without eyes and a ghost who says she is dead and alive and all that other stuff can you even tell the difference between the lodge and earth?
Last edited by Manwith on Mon May 22, 2017 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
psyifinotic
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby psyifinotic » Mon May 22, 2017 5:05 pm

so the guy from columbia. what do you guys think he was doing?


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