Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Pinky
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Pinky » Mon May 22, 2017 6:20 pm

I loved the low swells from 'Sycamore Trees' after every jackpot win.
Calderon
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Calderon » Mon May 22, 2017 6:27 pm

Ross wrote:I think my biggest problem with the new show is the disconnect. Which I wasn't expecting. One thing about the original show that made me love it so much was the emotional connection. To the characters, town, music. Even in the second half of season 2 when the storyline wasn't as strong, I still loved it because the characters were so endearing, and the music so memorable. Even the more serious FWWM had Laura at its emotional center. But the new show is so stylized and unnatural, and with no music, that I loose that emotional component. Even with our original characters, Lynch has them deliver their lines in such stilted manner that it takes away from caring about them. On top of that playing Lucy even more broadly than she was before. I don't hate it, but I hate that I don't love it.


A very valid criticism. I felt the same. But at this point I think it's intentional from Lynch. At least some parts of the world of Twin Peaks feel so out of sync, because of what happens in the black lodge and with Cooper. Once that will change, certain parts of Twin Peaks will also change and feel more real and connectable.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Snailhead » Mon May 22, 2017 6:28 pm

# 4 is my favourite so far ... it really felt like Twin Peaks !!
When Bobby walks in and sees that photograph, that was the most emotional moment of the series for me thus far.
Naomi is great.
The part with the One-Armed Man appearing to Coop in the furniture was fantastic - the best the Red Room has looked of the new crop.

Now I'm excited to re-watch 1 & 2.
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Mairzy
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Mairzy » Mon May 22, 2017 6:37 pm

Driftwood wrote:9-1-1 backwards. cooper just came in through a light socket next door, that kind of lodge happenings going on maybe messes with people nearby


The name of the lady with no eyes is Naido. Which is O Dian backwards. Probably being daft but made me chuckle.
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Pöllö
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Pöllö » Mon May 22, 2017 6:41 pm

Calderon wrote:
Ross wrote:I think my biggest problem with the new show is the disconnect. Which I wasn't expecting. One thing about the original show that made me love it so much was the emotional connection. To the characters, town, music. Even in the second half of season 2 when the storyline wasn't as strong, I still loved it because the characters were so endearing, and the music so memorable. Even the more serious FWWM had Laura at its emotional center. But the new show is so stylized and unnatural, and with no music, that I loose that emotional component. Even with our original characters, Lynch has them deliver their lines in such stilted manner that it takes away from caring about them. On top of that playing Lucy even more broadly than she was before. I don't hate it, but I hate that I don't love it.


A very valid criticism. I felt the same. But at this point I think it's intentional from Lynch. At least some parts of the world of Twin Peaks feel so out of sync, because of what happens in the black lodge and with Cooper. Once that will change, certain parts of Twin Peaks will also change and feel more real and connectable.

I certainly hope so. However, I have a feeling in my gut that tells that this whole thing will be an unsynced mishmash of everything that is Lynch.
The cow jumped over the moon.
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FlyingSquirrel
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Mon May 22, 2017 6:48 pm

OK, finally just finished up with Episode 4.

I have mixed feelings about the extended sequence at the start of Episode 3. I've followed Lynch long enough to know that there probably isn't a literal meaning behind all of this, and that we'll probably never really understand why there was a woman with no eyes, or why the number 15 was on the device on the wall, or why they ended up floating in space. Which might be OK, except that I've always been a firm adherent of the "Cooper failed by running from his shadow self" theory and I was hoping he'd eventually escape by figuring that out and somehow remedying his initial failure. Instead it looks like he's escaped due to Lodge weirdness out of his control, in which case the first part of Episode 3 may not be telling us anything other than "Lodge weirdness outside of Cooper's control is happening."

There must be something building with the Vegas setting given that scene with the character played by the actor from the Winky's scene in Mulholland Drive. I really don't want to watch multiple episodes of "The Film Noir Hijinks of Amnesiac Cooper in Vegas," nor do I want Cooper and Doug Jones to be the subject of an extended identity-flip narrative along the lines of MD or Lost Highway. Hopefully that isn't where the Vegas angle is going.

I agree that the scene at the Sheriff's station with the classic TP theme music was great. Are we 100% sure Bobby has gone straight and isn't working with whoever's sneaking the drugs past the surveillance cameras, though? I suppose he'd have had to prove himself reformed to get onto the force in the first place. I'm also wondering if perhaps Chad is indicative of a younger generation of Twin Peaks police officers who are skeptical of the "old guard" with their strange methods and their history with all the craziness around the time of Laura's murder.

I wasn't sure whether Andy and Lucy's son was actually mocking his parents and/or Frank with his flat, over-earnest delivery, but if there were any two parents who might raise a son who wouldn't realize how goofy he was sounding, I suppose it would be Andy and Lucy.

Was that even Kyle's voice in the jail cell scene with Evil-Cooper speaking to Gordon, Albert, and Tammy?

Trying to figure out who "she" is that Gordon and Albert plan to call in. Am I right in remembering that Cooper's mother died when he was relatively young and that he did not have any other close female relatives? If so, the only surviving women I can think of that were especially close to him would be Diane (a possibility, though actually having her on-screen would be shattering one of Twin Peaks's glass ceilings), Annie (unlikely since Heather Graham is known not to be in the cast, so I don't think they'd refer to her without showing her), and Audrey (also possible, but she'd moved on from her infatuation with him by the end of the series, and it sounds like Evil-Cooper skipped town shortly thereafter).
Last edited by FlyingSquirrel on Mon May 22, 2017 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Mon May 22, 2017 6:53 pm

dronerstone wrote:Cera -> awesome.

And yup, I also believe it'll lead to Sarah "xamining" Bad Coop and seeing BOB, however they choose to pull that off.


I hadn't even thought of that possibility. Though Albert's "I know where she drinks" would be odd if it were her - I can't imagine Sarah doing her drinking anywhere other than at home, in which case that would be an odd way for Albert to put it.
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BEARisonFord
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby BEARisonFord » Mon May 22, 2017 6:59 pm

Calderon wrote:A very valid criticism. I felt the same. But at this point I think it's intentional from Lynch. At least some parts of the world of Twin Peaks feel so out of sync, because of what happens in the black lodge and with Cooper. Once that will change, certain parts of Twin Peaks will also change and feel more real and connectable.


More power to you, but I think this is basically the highest level of rationalization by way of wishful thinking.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby dkenny78 » Mon May 22, 2017 7:02 pm

Anyone else think the 'something missing' might be the page from Laura's Diary that says 'The Good Dale is in the Lodge and he can't leave'?
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Manwith » Mon May 22, 2017 7:04 pm

lotjx2 wrote:but the dude is trying to tell the fall of a democracy into a fascist Empire by turning disillusioned people mainly a youth to the dark side.


I don't know what Lucas's intent was, but there's significant evidence he was very, very goal oriented towards selling video games and kid's action figures and seeing how many CGI space ships could be crammed onscreen at once. So even if he wanted to say something about democracy there's a lot of other stuff in those films that aren't trying to say anything about democracy. At any rate there's a difference between "intending" to make a good film and making a good film.

Back with David Lynch, I like the new Twin Peaks but if it doesn't work for people the intent doesn't really matter either.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Manwith » Mon May 22, 2017 7:06 pm

dkenny78 wrote:Anyone else think the 'something missing' might be the page from Laura's Diary that says 'The Good Dale is in the Lodge and he can't leave'?


Great theory but what does it have to do with being a native American?
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Deep Thought
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Deep Thought » Mon May 22, 2017 7:08 pm

FlyingSquirrel wrote: in which case the first part of Episode 3 may not be telling us anything other than "Lodge weirdness outside of Cooper's control is happening."


Weird for the sake of being weird? Not an idea I am entertaining as of yet. Coop has survived (or will survive) the attempt to annihilate his soul. That counts for something rather than being a passive reactor to outside forces, IMO.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Mon May 22, 2017 7:22 pm

bastia wrote:
Valaquen wrote:Dougie I suppose is an offshoot of BadCoop/BOB, just like how MIKE severed his arm and spawned TMFAP. A loop hole of sorts that allows BOB to remain in our world.


I am not sure that bad Coop is BOB


Yeah, I'm thinking somewhere along the line he became his own entity and isn't 100% under BOB's control.

BOB always seemed to me like a sort of tempestuous raging id. Even when he isn't engaged in an act of violence, he's usually twitching, snarling, howling, and generally acting like a time bomb about to explode whenever we see him. When they finally corner him by arresting Leland, he rants and raves like a lunatic. Evil-Cooper is a nasty and frightening person, but he isn't out of control - he's apparently a fairly competent "professional" criminal who's able to control his impulses when he needs to.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Rami Airola » Mon May 22, 2017 7:22 pm

Manwith wrote:
dkenny78 wrote:Anyone else think the 'something missing' might be the page from Laura's Diary that says 'The Good Dale is in the Lodge and he can't leave'?


Great theory but what does it have to do with being a native American?


"The Lodge" mentioned in the quote has something to do with being a native American.
It was Hawk who informed Cooper about the Lodge in season 2.
He had special knowledge of it that he had gotten from "his people."


I've been thinking about this too and I agree that it might very well be about that quote in the diary.
Last edited by Rami Airola on Mon May 22, 2017 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Azurite404 » Mon May 22, 2017 7:24 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
FlyingSquirrel wrote: in which case the first part of Episode 3 may not be telling us anything other than "Lodge weirdness outside of Cooper's control is happening."


Weird for the sake of being weird? Not an idea I am entertaining as of yet. Coop has survived (or will survive) the attempt to annihilate his soul. That counts for something rather than being a passive reactor to outside forces, IMO.


Agreed. It's also, like you implied, far too early to make an assumption like this. Despite how Lynch talks about his work I honestly don't believe any of it is 100% weird for the sake of weird. There's always SOMETHING behind his work in my experience, or more often several things -- even if there's no "right" meaning or whatever all of the time and Lynch won't speak on most of his motifs, that doesn't suggest there's no meaning there at all. Only time will tell how much more we learn about the nature of the Lodges and how Coop escaped, but I do expect at least a FEW more upcoming clues to go on in that regard.

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