Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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Pöllö
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Pöllö » Mon May 22, 2017 7:25 pm

How would Hawk find the page or know about it's contents? I can't remember what happened to it, wasn't it discarded?
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speedbeatz
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby speedbeatz » Mon May 22, 2017 7:26 pm

Manwith wrote:
dkenny78 wrote:Anyone else think the 'something missing' might be the page from Laura's Diary that says 'The Good Dale is in the Lodge and he can't leave'?


Great theory but what does it have to do with being a native American?

"The way you find it will have something to do with your heritage." (emphasis mine)
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Deep Thought
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Deep Thought » Mon May 22, 2017 7:42 pm

Coop is very aware of the cameras in the casino, if nothing else.

Also, the idea that everyone close to him is treating Rain Man Duggie as the man they have always known is heartbreaking and an inspired Lynch touch. One of my favorite lines from the pilot is: "Would you leave us please?" and the response: "Uh, Jim."

Same idea. Being There.
Last edited by Deep Thought on Mon May 22, 2017 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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dkenny78
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby dkenny78 » Mon May 22, 2017 7:48 pm

Pöllö wrote:How would Hawk find the page or know about it's contents? I can't remember what happened to it, wasn't it discarded?


In the original series, it's Hawk who finds the pages and bloody towel near Glastonbury Grove. Though the pages are analyzed and are determined to be from a diary, we never find out if they're reconstructed so the contents can be read. Given that the murder was solved only a few days later, it's possible they never went through the process of reconstructing the diary, and the torn pages just wound up in the case files. Perhaps Bad Cooper removed them because he knew that, if pieced together, they could lead to his downfall.

Of course, the big continuity issue is that Laura had already handed over her diary to Harold by the time she had the Annie vision. There are ways around this though - Laura could have written it in her 'normal' diary, she might have had the Annie vision multiple times before the time we saw it, etc.

I think I'm just in love with the idea that Laura would play an active role in helping Cooper overcome Bob. He helped her and, now, it's her turn to help him.
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TheAlien
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby TheAlien » Mon May 22, 2017 7:49 pm

djsunyc wrote:anybody talk about the druggie lady w/ the kid in rancho rosa screaming 1-1-9? was that just another lynchian wtf moment?


Yes, I wonder how she and her kid tie into everything (if they do). Or it could just be a very depressed and scummy street?
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Deep Thought
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Deep Thought » Mon May 22, 2017 7:54 pm

dkenny78 wrote:
Pöllö wrote:How would Hawk find the page or know about it's contents? I can't remember what happened to it, wasn't it discarded?


I think I'm just in love with the idea that Laura would play an active role in helping Cooper overcome Bob. He helped her and, now, it's her turn to help him.


In FWWM, it was obvious that Annie was trying to help Coop in some way by relaying this info to Laura. Having this play out after 25 years will be the eye of the duck.
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timeandtide
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby timeandtide » Mon May 22, 2017 7:58 pm

Re: the Eyeless Woman in the Lodge, I assume there's a connection to the dead women Bad Coop left. All three he's responsible for have their eyes prominently gored out and the camera made sure to show them multiple times. Not sure if you discussed it, but it might have to do with the playing card Bad Coop pulls out ("this is what I want"), which has some sort of void (as I see it) scratched on. Also, in the new intro, the sun forms a circle over Laura's eye. Maybe it won't be explained specifically, but I bet there's meant to be something to it.


1-1-9 Drug Woman: it's 911 backwards, as a few of you have noted, but also ties into Coop's "CALL FOR HELP!" on a symbolic level. Probably not anything more to it than that.
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FlyingSquirrel
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby FlyingSquirrel » Mon May 22, 2017 8:05 pm

Azurite404 wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:
FlyingSquirrel wrote: in which case the first part of Episode 3 may not be telling us anything other than "Lodge weirdness outside of Cooper's control is happening."


Weird for the sake of being weird? Not an idea I am entertaining as of yet. Coop has survived (or will survive) the attempt to annihilate his soul. That counts for something rather than being a passive reactor to outside forces, IMO.


Agreed. It's also, like you implied, far too early to make an assumption like this. Despite how Lynch talks about his work I honestly don't believe any of it is 100% weird for the sake of weird.


I'm not exactly concerned that it's just "weird for the sake of weird." Maybe it's more that it didn't quite feel distinct enough or like it was telling us (however obliquely) anything new?

I guess I'm not expressing this very well, so I'll try to give an example: in Cooper's original dream sequence, there's an odd-looking shadow cast across the curtains moving from one side to another with a strange whirring sound in the background. I don't know that there's any literal meaning to that, but it helped set the eerie mood of the scene and establish that Cooper could be receiving a communication from some other plane of reality. Similarly, the MFAP referring to Laura as his "cousin" probably doesn't symbolize anything in particular, but it adds to the sense that he is a mysterious entity who might not be speaking in literal terms.

I'm not sure that the presence of the woman with the missing eyes really contributes in this case, other than to have somebody there for Cooper to ask what's happening and not get an answer. She's just...there, and Cooper's confusion probably would have been just as evident if she hadn't been there, or if a kid with no eyes had been there instead, or even another talking tree.

Of course, a lot of this is subjective, so maybe others found some of this imagery just as effective as some of Lynch's best and most enigmatic work elsewhere. For me, it doesn't quite hold up against scenes like Laura's dream in FWWM, the Lodge scenes in the last episodes of the original series, or Club Silencio.
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Ratmeat
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Ratmeat » Mon May 22, 2017 8:17 pm

FlyingSquirrel wrote:Was that even Kyle's voice in the jail cell scene with Evil-Cooper speaking to Gordon, Albert, and Tammy?


I was wondering the same thing, it seemed like it was his voice but it was lowered. The manner in which he was speaking was odd as well, what was up with him repeating the same sentence twice?
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Snailhead » Mon May 22, 2017 8:22 pm

I really hope that's not the last we see of Hailey Gates.
Azurite404
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Azurite404 » Mon May 22, 2017 8:22 pm

FlyingSquirrel wrote:in Cooper's original dream sequence, there's an odd-looking shadow cast across the curtains moving from one side to another with a strange whirring sound in the background. I don't know that there's any literal meaning to that, but it helped set the eerie mood of the scene and establish that Cooper could be receiving a communication from some other plane of reality. Similarly, the MFAP referring to Laura as his "cousin" probably doesn't symbolize anything in particular, but it adds to the sense that he is a mysterious entity who might not be speaking in literal terms.

I'm not sure that the presence of the woman with the missing eyes really contributes in this case, other than to have somebody there for Cooper to ask what's happening and not get an answer. She's just...there, and Cooper's confusion probably would have been just as evident if she hadn't been there, or if a kid with no eyes had been there instead, or even another talking tree.

Of course, a lot of this is subjective, so maybe others found some of this imagery just as effective as some of Lynch's best and most enigmatic work elsewhere. For me, it doesn't quite hold up against scenes like Laura's dream in FWWM, the Lodge scenes in the last episodes of the original series, or Club Silencio.


I get what you're saying, but I'm going to have to withhold judgment for now. I honestly just have more faith in all of this; Ibelieve there will be more light shed on this as time goes on and we get more content/time to think about the scene.

As for the shadow you speak of from the original series: That was supposed to be a bird's shadow moving across the curtain. I read somewhere that Lynch was said to have been disappointed in how indistinct it turned out, but he kept it anyway. So that DID have a specific "meaning" (Waldo the bird pecking Laura & how it acts as one of many clues concerning her case). As for the "She's my cousin," that's directly foreshadowing Maddie showing up in the very next episode right after the vision. Every part of that dream has a tie-in later in the series. Even the little man from another place twitching and making weird noises before he turns around and says "let's rock" gets referenced in S2 episode 8 when Leland is standing in the same position, facing away from Coop while twitching and making the same noises (laughing/crying), before Coop says something to him and he turns around. Look into these things more -- people have dissected the crap out of Coop's dreams and everything else Twin Peaks online.
Azurite404
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Azurite404 » Mon May 22, 2017 8:23 pm

Ratmeat wrote:
FlyingSquirrel wrote:Was that even Kyle's voice in the jail cell scene with Evil-Cooper speaking to Gordon, Albert, and Tammy?


I was wondering the same thing, it seemed like it was his voice but it was lowered. The manner in which he was speaking was odd as well, what was up with him repeating the same sentence twice?


I think his repeating the same sentence twice acts on some level as a reference to him repeating "but I haven't brushed my teeth yet" in the same way at the end of FWWM.
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krishnanspace
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby krishnanspace » Mon May 22, 2017 8:31 pm

Ratmeat wrote:
FlyingSquirrel wrote:Was that even Kyle's voice in the jail cell scene with Evil-Cooper speaking to Gordon, Albert, and Tammy?


I was wondering the same thing, it seemed like it was his voice but it was lowered. The manner in which he was speaking was odd as well, what was up with him repeating the same sentence twice?

That was like "I need to brush my teeth" which Coop repeated twice
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Driftwood
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Driftwood » Mon May 22, 2017 8:33 pm

I'm enjoying seeing the world outside of twin peaks. I always liked the deer meadow stuff too. There's only so much you can do with one small town. I don't know what people disappointed by how little twin peaks there's been so far expected? If they just wanted to redo another investigation into a dead body wrapped in plastic there again or what? Cooper to just pop out at glastonberry and right back at the great northern for breakfast every morning before heading to the sheriffs to uncover the secret plots of highschool drug dealers? I'm just surprised so many people are vocalising this complaint. It's called The Return, and it just started, obviously we're building towards going back, and I'm sure there's going to be some great moment where we see the twin peaks sign again and all but I think people who think, like the Ben Horne scene was "off" or whatever, or the lack of music, are still going to be disappointed. I think the missing pieces was a big indicator of what a new twin peaks movie would look like, it even had the same style of credits as the new episodes. It might have been all old footage but it definitely felt like it was put together by modern lynch (especially the convenience store scene, I just don't see that as having been edited exactly that way back in 92 and left in a box somewhere). I think the lack of music in a lot of those scenes was also by design, not cause they were just deleted scenes. There wasn't much music in inland empire either, I think that's just how lynch works now.
Last edited by Driftwood on Mon May 22, 2017 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Hockey Mask » Mon May 22, 2017 8:33 pm

dkenny78 wrote:Anyone else think the 'something missing' might be the page from Laura's Diary that says 'The Good Dale is in the Lodge and he can't leave'?

COOPER: "Hawk. If I'm ever lost, I hope you're the man they send to find me."

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