Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

[RedThread]

I have a small question. When Gordon Cole visits Denise, he's ushered in by Bill Kennedy (played by Richard Chamberlain). Gordon asks Bill about Martha and trouble with Paul, and Bill replies something about the North Pole. The NY Times review seemed to "get" this reference, without explaining it. I don't get it. Can someone explain?

Haven't read the Times review but the reference to the North Pole made me think of the earth's electromagnetic field, there are repeated links in the Secret History between malfunctioning compasses and supernatural phenomena

[gladhand]

So I watched ep 3 + 4 last night, didn't want to binge watch the show so I'm going at the same rate as the broadcast.

The interview with Cole and the long-lost agent Cooper was really tense and the best thing so far. This really does feel like a FWWM sequel in terms of mood. Couldn't be happier with that.

Just a quick query, I thought good Cooper had landed flat-faced on the box (in nyc) at the end of ep 2 (wasn't he also in the box, floating out?), but didn't ep 3 start with him falling through space again? Did I miss something?

[Jasper]

Have we discussed why Coop's FBI pin is missing when he enters Dougie's world? It's really bugging me.

I don't know. It catches the light and shines really brightly for a second while he's out on that balcony looking over the purple ocean, but I don't know if that was so that we'd remember it, or if it was just the way the light happened to hit it in that shot with no deeper meaning. What I do know is that the pin would have caused all kinds of differences in Dougie's world. Jade, the casino, and especially Dougie's wife. It's kind of odd that he doesn't have a wallet either, but that also would have caused differences in Dougie's world. The simple explanation could be that it simply screwed up the narrative that Lynch/Frost were working on. Maybe they thought we wouldn't notice. (Nobody ever asks why Cooper's tie clip in lodge scenes disappears between episode 29 and FWWM.)

All I can think is that the same process that scrambled Cooper's brain also erased all other traces of his identity. The Great Northern key is kind of a part of his identity, which complicates things, but it's also a key that's been used by many people, and says nothing specific about who they are or what they do. Any kind of person could have that same exact key, while any kind of person couldn't be a special agent or have Cooper's private identification.

In closing, I don't know.

[DirkG]

So I watched ep 3 + 4 last night, didn't want to binge watch the show so I'm going at the same rate as the broadcast.

The interview with Cole and the long-lost agent Cooper was really tense and the best thing so far. This really does feel like a FWWM sequel in terms of mood. Couldn't be happier with that.

Just a quick query, I thought good Cooper had landed flat-faced on the box (in nyc) at the end of ep 2 (wasn't he also in the box, floating out?), but didn't ep 3 start with him falling through space again? Did I miss something?

He couldn't enter via the box and began falling again.

[manalicream]

Have we discussed why Coop's FBI pin is missing when he enters Dougie's world? It's really bugging me.

I don't know. It catches the light and shines really brightly for a second while he's out on that balcony looking over the purple ocean, but I don't know if that was so that we'd remember it, or if it was just the way the light happened to hit it in that shot with no deeper meaning. What I do know is that the pin would have caused all kinds of differences in Dougie's world. Jade, the casino, and especially Dougie's wife. It's kind of odd that he doesn't have a wallet either, but that also would have caused differences in Dougie's world. The simple explanation could be that it simply screwed up the narrative that Lynch/Frost were working on. Maybe they thought we wouldn't notice. (Nobody ever asks why Cooper's tie clip in lodge scenes disappears between episode 29 and FWWM.)

All I can think is that the same process that scrambled Cooper's brain also erased all other traces of his identity. The Great Northern key is kind of a part of his identity, which complicates things, but it's also a key that's been used by many people, and says nothing specific about who they are or what they do. Any kind of person could have that same exact key, while any kind of person couldn't be a special agent or have Cooper's private identification.

In closing, I don't know.

It just strikes me as odd that for a show that requires so much of the audience's attention, that this could be a continuity error.

[opium]

Not sure if anyone brought this up, but the numbers on the vault that Cooper approaches in Part 3 looks exactly like the number(s) on the electrical poles in FWWM when Coop investigates Carl Rodd's trailer park. I suspect it has little to do with anything except being a reference but I thought it was kind of a cool physical connection between the two worlds.

[MoondogJR]

Rancho Rosa definitely feels like The Truman Show. Everything about it feels fabricated.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/34%C2 ... 118.008448

Heh, exactly.

There are real places that feel that utterly artificial.

They sure don't like trees in Rancho Rosa...

[counterpaul]

Have we discussed why Coop's FBI pin is missing when he enters Dougie's world? It's really bugging me.

It does seem to be significant. But I noticed something re-watching the "Familiar Faces" trailer--it looks like, at some point, he's going to get that pin back! Check out the final shot of Coop (and is that Janey-E standing to his side?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB2naaQZbfI

[speedbeatz]

Cooper's pin being missing is most likely just a combination of being symbolic of him having lost his identity, and the plot convenience of people not asking him about it, I would think.

[wxray]

THE GLASS BOX

I think that because the box is so damn mysterious, it is not getting enough of our attention.

Here's my take. I think the theory of Bad Coop/Mr. C being the rich dude is on the right track. Mr. C probably made money in an underhanded way that we may not be privy to (pick the right stocks?). I doubt it was just slot machines. Bad Coop knows he has a 25 year time limit, and worked to find a way to deal with good Coop when he comes back, and annihilate him. Through his connections, he found the right researchers and occultists to set up the "experiment."

The experiment worked, kind of. Coop was supposed to just drop back into Glastonbury Grove, but The Experiment redirected him to the trap. The box is not just an observation platform, it is a trap. We see the trapping occur when the box goes through this weird set of back and forth, multidimensional contortions.

But there's a problem. The Experiment is imperfect, because the good spirits of The Lodge are working against it. We see this with Naido. Coop is trapped and this is represented by the Mauve scene. Notice the balcony he drops on is a box. It is essentially The Experiment in the Lodge Dimension. Coop sees Outlet 15 turn on and starts to go for it. Don't do it Coop! Naido stops him. Outlet 15 would have connected him with whatever we saw slash Tracey and Sam (The Slasher) and Good Coop would have been annihilated. That's plan A for Mr. C: get Coop connected to The Slasher while in the Lodge Dimension and annihilate him, setting Mr. C free. But Naido sacrificed herself to save Coop from this fate.

Meanwhile, Mr. C knows that the electrical system is poor and unreliable (no grounding!) and has a backup plan B. Plan B consists of finding the outlet from 3, and intercepting Good Coop in our dimension. This is messier than taking care of him in The Lodge dimension. This shouldn't happen! (Non-Exist-Ent!) So, Mr. C knows where outlet 3 is (Vegas) and is working with people in the know to direct him to some sort of ending that works for Mr. C. I don't think just killing Good Coop works. There's something else that has to happen to reliably get the correct Cooper to survive, and we're going to see this played out. Jane-Y and Sonny Jim are supposed to be working on the good side of The Lodge, but she's in the process of being corrupted by the Fischler character to work for Mr. C.

Good Coop, please be careful of Jane-Y!

[thewindinthepines]

Not sure if anyone brought this up, but the numbers on the vault that Cooper approaches in Part 3 looks exactly like the number(s) on the electrical poles in FWWM when Coop investigates Carl Rodd's trailer park. I suspect it has little to do with anything except being a reference but I thought it was kind of a cool physical connection between the two worlds.

.......not just a reference. this is undoubtedly a direct connection, seeing as lodge inhabitants travel thru electricity. i am forgetting what numbers we see at carl road's trailer park but at any rate there is definitely an important correlation there

[twin-b]

I thought he reacted that way because he is an artificial manufactured entity, not a real person.

I thought it was because he's supposed to be dumb as a brick.

Seconded. Dougie is portrayed as a sad sack moron to enable suspension of disbelief for Cooper's arc in the real world, not that it matters a great deal. It's not The Wire. But still, it's considerate.

It's clever writing. We know that Dougie is both a) so oblivious that the Red Room goes over his head and b) very sexually active (escort visit) and defines himself by it (number plate). I can buy that he snagged Janey-E through hyper sex drive and dumb-assed charm.

Number plate? Did you read "LV" as "love"? I read it as Las Vegas.

[somevelvetmorning]

A few theories about WHAT it is Bad Cooper is looking for. But what are your thoughts on WHY?

One thing I found strange is that Bad Cooper seemed almost bored when he killed people. He just shot Mrs Hastings (because he was done with her), he just shot Darya (because she tried to trick him and he was done with her). The killings, the pain and the suffering of people, seems of no real concern to him.

Has BOB too evolved, so that worldly things like fear and suffering no longer amuses him and feeds him? Has he gotten bored? Is BOB even still in control?

I think Bad Cooper is in charge of BOB, using him to carry out certain tasks (Like possessing William Hastings, and in return allowing him to kill in horrible ways, thus providing BOB with sustenance).

[mtwentz]

A few theories about WHAT it is Bad Cooper is looking for. But what are your thoughts on WHY?

One thing I found strange is that Bad Cooper seemed almost bored when he killed people. He just shot Mrs Hastings (because he was done with her), he just shot Darya (because she tried to trick him and he was done with her). The killings, the pain and the suffering of people, seems of no real concern to him.

Has BOB too evolved, so that worldly things like fear and suffering no longer amuses him and feeds him? Has he gotten bored? Is BOB even still in control?

I think Bad Cooper is in charge of BOB, using him to carry out certain tasks (Like possessing William Hastings, and in return allowing him to kill in horrible ways, thus providing BOB with sustenance).

He does torture Darya for a few minutes before killing her. Mostly torturing her with the knowledge she is about to die.

In the case of Mrs. Hastings, Bad Coop is setting up George to take the fall, so to touch her or prolong it in any way could risk leaving unwanted evidence at the scene of the crime.

[somevelvetmorning]

He does torture Darya for a few minutes before killing her. Mostly torturing her with the knowledge she is about to die.

In the case of Mrs. Hastings, Bad Coop is setting up George to take the fall, so to touch her or prolong it in any way could risk leaving unwanted evidence at the scene of the crime.

Yes, he does punch her a few times and tells her she is going to die. But after she has told him all that he wants to know, he just shoots her. Like he is doing some mundane task, he looks bored. BOB took pleasure in killing, he enjoyed the whole game of being in control, of being the predator. Look at the scene where he kills Maddy. He is playing with her, he is smiling, he is having fun.

Yes, Bad Cooper is planning something. His intentions are something greater than just killing, and causing pain and fear. And that's why I think that BOB might still be around but not in control of Cooper.