Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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chalfont
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (SPOILERS)

Postby chalfont » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:30 am

qbin2001 wrote:
arfredo wrote:
OneEyedJack wrote:In that shot in FWWM, TMFAP says "This is the ring. Is it future or is it past?"

Watching both scenes together I have the feeling that the scene in Part 3 happens BEFORE the one in FWWM (in that warped time inside the black lodge). MIKE gets the ring from Dougie, puts it on the table, and then TMFAP picks it up from the table and Cooper warns Laura to not take the ring.


Oh, I love that theory!

Yeah, I've also got a feeling that Dougie-Coop we see is before 1990. He's not remembering things from the past/TP, he's discovering for the first time (clean place, reasonable priced)
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby TheAlien » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:46 am

I haven't seen episode #6 yet but I have been thinking and Diane seems like the only logical person Gordon/Albert will bring to assess evil coop (if they still go through with it after the chaos he just caused)
For I am I: ergo, the truth of myself; my own sphinx, conflict, chaos, vortex—asymmetric to all rhythms, oblique to all paths. I am the prism between black and white: mine own unison in duality.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby TheAlien » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:46 am

asmahan wrote:Has anyone noticed how DoppelCooper's line "I've never really left home" recalls the LMFAP's "You are here and there is no place to go, BUT HOME!"?


Yep, eerie similarity :shock:
For I am I: ergo, the truth of myself; my own sphinx, conflict, chaos, vortex—asymmetric to all rhythms, oblique to all paths. I am the prism between black and white: mine own unison in duality.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhodes » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:13 pm

Do you also think that one of the girls from "Au revoire Simone" (the band from part 4) looks just like Phoebe Augustine?
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:21 pm

It took forever to read this thread!

Regarding comparisons that some have made to The Wizard of Oz, it popped into my head too just as soon as his shoes fell off. On a related note there's a lot of discussion about "why" his FBI pin didn't make it through the portal while the key did, but the easy answer is that it simply fell off just like his shoes did, while the key was safe in his pocket.

In another thread there were complaints about the Doppelganger's exposition regarding The Black Lodge. I felt the same way initially, wondering why he would bother telling someone that not only has no idea what he's talking about, but someone that he's about to wipe out of existence. However, in retrospect it seems like classic Narcissism. He just wants to talk about it because it's important to him at the moment. He doesn't really give a shit who he's telling or if they even completely get it.


Cypher wrote:Intrigued about the "mother," and whether we'll see any more on that.

It would be a little strange if that never came up again. But then, this is Twin Peaks...


garethw wrote:Much of Gordon and Albert's dialog seemed really poorly written, or delivered, or something. But their last scene was great.

I was really into that exchange. It had a lot of feeling and impact. Things were really starting to come together. "Doesn't get any bluer". No kidding there!


crazyscottishguy wrote:I loved how evil Cooper tried hard to give his best "impersonation" of old Cooper. It almost verges on sinister.

Seeing him try to imitate Coop was so weird and unsettling. You can feel both the extreme discomfort and confusion that Gordon and Albert are experiencing after all these years wondering whatever happened to Agent Cooper. The Doppelganger is as desperate as a cornered animal. Though he tries so hard to remain cool, intense panic is in there, just beneath the surface.

Realizing that he's not going to be debriefed and freed immediately, and saying he'd be exonerated in court, had a very threatening feel to it.


BEARisonFord wrote:This is probably going to be talked about endlessly, but i'm fairly certain the red room is not CG. I think it's just jarring to see that set shot digitally. It arguably doesn't do it a lot of favors, but c'est la vie.

I've only seen these episodes once but at no point did it seem like the Red Room was computer generated. On the other hand, it definitely looked like some green screen shots were used for closeups.


hopesfall wrote:So yeah, it's on an incline for me, but I'm not feeling Peaksy whatsoever

This has been brought up a lot and I have finally come to a conclusion about it. I'm glad that it's not feeling so Peaksy yet. We're struggling along with Cooper, lost in unfamiliar territory. This coincides with the musical choices as well. At the moment, all this ambient drone and sub aural dread is working wonders. It's creating a sinister mood when paired with the ominous and disorienting surroundings.

Imagine how cool it's going to be when things begin to become familiar for Cooper and for us. Wouldn't it be a little too easy if the story just started up right where it left us, without any sort of buildup or yearning for the old places and faces? It's like the difference between earning something for yourself versus having it handed to you for nothing.


douglasb wrote:I'm surprised how quickly 'bad Coop' has been brought in. It would have been nice to see him in the wild a bit more.

Got a very strong feeling that we'll be seeing him in the wild again before all is said and done.


lotjx2 wrote:Harry not being here is a bit tough.

I'm right there with you. Real bummer to hear he won't be part of the story.


FlyingSquirrel wrote:I have mixed feelings about the extended sequence at the start of Episode 3. I've followed Lynch long enough to know that there probably isn't a literal meaning behind all of this, and that we'll probably never really understand why there was a woman with no eyes, or why the number 15 was on the device on the wall, or why they ended up floating in space. Which might be OK, except that I've always been a firm adherent of the "Cooper failed by running from his shadow self" theory and I was hoping he'd eventually escape by figuring that out and somehow remedying his initial failure. Instead it looks like he's escaped due to Lodge weirdness out of his control, in which case the first part of Episode 3 may not be telling us anything other than "Lodge weirdness outside of Cooper's control is happening."

If Coop's entire story was just stuff happening to him, that would be boring and unrealistic. Nothing wrong with getting a little help from some friends, though. As far as the meaning itself, I can't settle on whether this is a dream, another dimension, or a place that is very far away. I'm nowhere near done contemplating it though, which is a sign of an intriguing story and presentation.

It could be the result of a powerful feeling. One of those creative flashes where even the artist doesn't know quite what it means until later when they figure it out or find a way to explain it to themselves or whatever you want to call it.


speedbeatz wrote:I wonder if Bad Coop is supposed to have access to Good Coop's memories, and if so to what extent.

A doppelganger would be an exact duplicate but without the soul if I had to guess. So all memories intact, but no heart.


hopesfall wrote:As for the Denise/Cole scene, it all seems kind of... forced. The dialogue is a bit hokey, and it's all just a bit off.

Yeah, there was no spark there at all nor did it really feel like that was the same Denise. Definitely one for the cutting room floor.


frompureair wrote:I can't help but think when Andy asked Lucy why the phone thing kept happening. My first thought was that she may be in the early stages of dementia since the show was dealing with the effect time has on people.

Something is definitely wrong with her.


coffee wrote:"Albert.... Albert.... Albert...."

That was the best!


MoondogJR wrote:They sure don't like trees in Rancho Rosa...

Looks like recently built housing in a tract that is still under development. Of course developers sometimes build around existing trees but out in the Mojave Desert, there just aren't many to begin with.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:54 pm

Nah, Lucy was just Lucy.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Zachary » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:02 pm

Mr. Strawberry wrote:
MoondogJR wrote:They sure don't like trees in Rancho Rosa...

Looks like recently built housing in a tract that is still under development. Of course developers sometimes build around existing trees but out in the Mojave Desert, there just aren't many to begin with.

Yep, even though the shooting location is actually in Palmdale, CA, that's pretty much what every new-ish neighborhood in the Las Vegas area looks like.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:09 pm

Mr. Strawberry wrote: Regarding comparisons that some have made to The Wizard of Oz, it popped into my head too just as soon as his shoes fell off. On a related note there's a lot of discussion about "why" his FBI pin didn't make it through the portal while the key did, but the easy answer is that it simply fell off just like his shoes did, while the key was safe in his pocket.


Since Coop's shoes didn't come through he was ready to take his second ride with Jade in his socks. Jade scolded him, went back into the house and came out with shoes for him. Where did those shoes come from? Well, I rewatched and the manufactured Dougie who had been pulled into the red room was clearly in just socks. So, Dougie's shoes didn't travel either, and evidently were left behind for Coop. So, not plot hole, just a strange thing happening with shoes. As we know, just because something seems random at first, it may later have some meaning. So keep an eye on shoes for the next couple episodes. :lol:
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Adolphus » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:10 pm

Mr. Strawberry wrote:It took forever to read this thread!

hopesfall wrote:So yeah, it's on an incline for me, but I'm not feeling Peaksy whatsoever

This has been brought up a lot and I have finally come to a conclusion about it. I'm glad that it's not feeling so Peaksy yet. We're struggling along with Cooper, lost in unfamiliar territory. This coincides with the musical choices as well. At the moment, all this ambient drone and sub aural dread is working wonders. It's creating a sinister mood when paired with the ominous and disorienting surroundings.

Imagine how cool it's going to be when things begin to become familiar for Cooper and for us. Wouldn't it be a little too easy if the story just started up right where it left us, without any sort of buildup or yearning for the old places and faces? It's like the difference between earning something for yourself versus having it handed to you for nothing.




To those who feel the new series ".. isn't peaksy "- have you ever heard the quotation " you can never go home again "- the idea of returning or NOT being able to return is pretty critical to what the new series is about. Bringing the unfamiliar, the unexpected and the new into the series seems to me to be the only valid way to approach Twin Peaks without serving up a plate of reheated, regurgitated nostalgia ( which would have been boring and uninspired ). Bringing the story of the small town murder into a wider, broader context is a really interesting one- and its keeping me glued to the screen each week to find out where its going next ( and I'm of the opinion that it IS all leading BACK to the fictional town of Twin Peaks near the end parts- so you can return home- just not in the way you expected ).
I'm not one for offering up grand narratives as the series isn't even a third of a way through yet.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:18 pm

It seems to me the Lodge wanted Coop's key to make it through. Just thinking out loud.

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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby kafa81 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:38 pm

BigEd wrote:
Mr. Strawberry wrote: Regarding comparisons that some have made to The Wizard of Oz, it popped into my head too just as soon as his shoes fell off. On a related note there's a lot of discussion about "why" his FBI pin didn't make it through the portal while the key did, but the easy answer is that it simply fell off just like his shoes did, while the key was safe in his pocket.


Since Coop's shoes didn't come through he was ready to take his second ride with Jade in his socks. Jade scolded him, went back into the house and came out with shoes for him. Where did those shoes come from? Well, I rewatched and the manufactured Dougie who had been pulled into the red room was clearly in just socks. So, Dougie's shoes didn't travel either, and evidently were left behind for Coop. So, not plot hole, just a strange thing happening with shoes. As we know, just because something seems random at first, it may later have some meaning. So keep an eye on shoes for the next couple episodes. :lol:



Has anyone mentioned that Philip Gerard was a shoe salesman...does this have anything to do with the whole shoes off when travelling in and out of the Lodge?
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby qbin2001 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:42 am

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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby secretlettermkr » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:41 pm

i dont know if this was mentioned before but:

LIMO + MONEY + AMNESIA + NAOMY WATTS


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Mdr.png (548.65 KiB) Viewed 4263 times
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:39 am

Zachary wrote:Yep, even though the shooting location is actually in Palmdale, CA, that's pretty much what every new-ish neighborhood in the Las Vegas area looks like.

Totally does, in fact that's why I mentioned the Mojave in general, as it encompasses both Palmdale and Vegas.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:00 pm

Adolphus wrote:To those who feel the new series ".. isn't peaksy "- have you ever heard the quotation " you can never go home again "- the idea of returning or NOT being able to return is pretty critical to what the new series is about. Bringing the unfamiliar, the unexpected and the new into the series seems to me to be the only valid way to approach Twin Peaks without serving up a plate of reheated, regurgitated nostalgia ( which would have been boring and uninspired ). Bringing the story of the small town murder into a wider, broader context is a really interesting one- and its keeping me glued to the screen each week to find out where its going next ( and I'm of the opinion that it IS all leading BACK to the fictional town of Twin Peaks near the end parts- so you can return home- just not in the way you expected ).
I'm not one for offering up grand narratives as the series isn't even a third of a way through yet.


Unfortunately yes, I've learned all about it firsthand. My neighborhood was demolished in its entirety when I was a kid. So in a literal sense I can never go back. However, when I dream about stumbling upon it and being shocked that it's somehow still there, even this identical replica is not quite the same either. Different and perhaps less welcoming people live there, the old cars are replaced with newer ones, some trees are larger while others have been felled, and many other small changes all add up to a very different experience.

The world is constantly changing and the only truly shiftless "home" that we can hope to retain is in the "heart". To me at least, this means that the people we share our lives with will together with us be the home that is forever a familiar and welcoming "place". Those without a connection to others are without a home.

Back to the idea of a stale and reheated dinner: It's true that retread would have been the worst possible treatment of the material. Unless I'm misunderstanding what others are after, it seems that the real gripe many have is that things don't "feel the same" as before, as if the style and the mood are not recognizable.

Even if true, it wouldn't be a sin in and of itself, since there were things to love and to hate about the first two seasons. The shift is somewhat dramatic if you watch those in preparation for this one -- as I did -- but this season is amazingly well done and I'm totally into it. Adjustment is normal but rejection is an overreaction in my opinion. We're extremely fortunate to have this at all, and I spend all week in anticipation of the next part.
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