Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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dreamshake wrote:I always read the black substance in Dougie and Mr C vomit's as motor oil.
That’s great! I bet you’re right. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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Part 4 rewatch...

Kyle’s portrayal of DougieCoop reminds me of the direction Lynch gave Jack Nance to play Henry Spencer in Eraserhead: “Be a blank.” Also, Jacques in FWWM: “I am as blank as a fart.”

The Arthurian references are such a throwaway, Frostian aspect of the TP world. I think this is also the only “owl” reference in TR, IIRC (the fly-by, as well as the owl cookie jar in the Jones kitchen). A little strange that such a major aspect of the original series iconography got such short shrift.

I don’t think I ever made the association before between the bouquet on Denise’s chair and her catching the bouquet at Dougie Milford’s wedding all those years ago.

I’ve said this before, but so much of TR is about the idea of “home.” We spend most of our lives searching for a sense of belonging, with different aspects of our personality needing different things. For some part of Cooper, the idea of having a wife and child is home; for another part (represented by the doppel, who says he has never really left home), it’s an adventuresome spirit and exploration of the supernatural. His journey on the show is to some extent an attempt to reconcile these varying ideas of “home,” and I don’t think he ever ultimately does.

I love the little moment of Andy and Lucy holding hands as Bobby cries about Laura. It’s such a wonderful representation of how the tragedy still lives in the town and impacts the characters all these years later.

I’m not entirely clear on whether or not DoppelCoop intended to get arrested at this point. Obviously he wanted to get to Ray, and downloaded the prison schematics...but what a strange way to get arrested. It seems unnecessarily risky to be driving at 2:53 when he anticipated things going haywire. Why not just sit alone in a room at that moment, and then get himself arrested some other safer way later?

Lynch is really good in that scene with Albert at the end (they both are, but for Ferrer, it goes without saying). I’m gonna use this opportunity to point out that Lynch has revived his weather reports as a coronavirus public service, and has taken to using that weird blue filter: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCDLD_zxiuyh1IMasq9nbjrA

DougieCoop’s Diet
— After 25 years of presumably not eating, he hungrily eyes Bill Shaker’s hot dog (with mustard and ketchup) at the Silver Mustang Casino, but Bill refuses to share
— Janey-E, upon his return home: “I’m gonna fix you a sandwich. And then, I’m gonna get you a piece of Sonny Jim’s chocolate cake, ‘cause we saved a piece for you.”
— Breakfast at the Joneses’s: Janey-E serves Dougie pancakes (with maple syrup provided by Sonny Jim); he has orange juice (which we don’t see him drink), and Janey-E serves him his first cup of coffee (in his “I am DOUGIE’S COFFEE” mug)
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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Mr. Reindeer wrote:I’m not entirely clear on whether or not DoppelCoop intended to get arrested at this point. Obviously he wanted to get to Ray, and downloaded the prison schematics...but what a strange way to get arrested. It seems unnecessarily risky to be driving at 2:53 when he anticipated things going haywire. Why not just sit alone in a room at that moment, and then get himself arrested some other safer way later?
I've struggled to reconcile how it is Cooper knows that the numbers the Fireman gives are supposed to correlate to miles in a car, and the only thing I could think is that when Cooper witnesses Mr. C on the highway, he extrapolates something about the urgency of his drive, or just the fact that this is one of the first things he sees after his instructions. Following that train of thought, is Mr. C trying to 'cross' in order to avoid the Red Room effects? Does he ever 'cross' as part of his plotting? There are skid marks going off-road in the P18 scene, perhaps implying a similar botched attempt to cross.
Recipe not my own. In a coffee cup. 3 TBS flour, 2 TBS sugar, 1.5 TBS cocoa powder, .25 TSP baking powder, pinch of salt. 3 TBS milk, 1.5 TBS vegetable oil, 1 TBS peanut butter. Add and mix each set. Microwave 1 minute 10 seconds. The cup will be hot.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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AXX°N N. wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:I’m not entirely clear on whether or not DoppelCoop intended to get arrested at this point. Obviously he wanted to get to Ray, and downloaded the prison schematics...but what a strange way to get arrested. It seems unnecessarily risky to be driving at 2:53 when he anticipated things going haywire. Why not just sit alone in a room at that moment, and then get himself arrested some other safer way later?
I've struggled to reconcile how it is Cooper knows that the numbers the Fireman gives are supposed to correlate to miles in a car, and the only thing I could think is that when Cooper witnesses Mr. C on the highway, he extrapolates something about the urgency of his drive, or just the fact that this is one of the first things he sees after his instructions. Following that train of thought, is Mr. C trying to 'cross' in order to avoid the Red Room effects? Does he ever 'cross' as part of his plotting? There are skid marks going off-road in the P18 scene, perhaps implying a similar botched attempt to cross.
Perhaps if Cooper is doing this over and over again, with slight variations, what the giant tells him is simply shorthand, and Cooper already knows everything from previous conversations, but simply must remember.

On a separate, semi-related note, I once came across a compelling theory that encapsulates the notion that 430 doesn't necessarily, or always mean what we think it does in the end. The theory is that the many abandoned plot threads are all taking place in different attempts to correct this wrong. So, in one reality, 430 really does correspond to the time that Andy is supposed to meet that dude on the side of the road in Part 7, only we don't get to see how that ends. Although, now that I think about it, maybe the idea that Andy is standing in a specific spot on the road at 4:30 (and beyond) is a clue to Cooper if the whole thing is taking place, on some level, in his head.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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AXX°N N. wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:I’m not entirely clear on whether or not DoppelCoop intended to get arrested at this point. Obviously he wanted to get to Ray, and downloaded the prison schematics...but what a strange way to get arrested. It seems unnecessarily risky to be driving at 2:53 when he anticipated things going haywire. Why not just sit alone in a room at that moment, and then get himself arrested some other safer way later?
I've struggled to reconcile how it is Cooper knows that the numbers the Fireman gives are supposed to correlate to miles in a car, and the only thing I could think is that when Cooper witnesses Mr. C on the highway, he extrapolates something about the urgency of his drive, or just the fact that this is one of the first things he sees after his instructions. Following that train of thought, is Mr. C trying to 'cross' in order to avoid the Red Room effects? Does he ever 'cross' as part of his plotting? There are skid marks going off-road in the P18 scene, perhaps implying a similar botched attempt to cross.
That’s interesting, I hadn’t noticed the skidmarks in P18. Will have to watch out for them and see if it looks like the same stretch of road. But I’d assumed the 430 miles began from Twin Peaks, and South Dakota is more than double that distance from, say, Spokane.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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Mr. Reindeer wrote:
AXX°N N. wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:I’m not entirely clear on whether or not DoppelCoop intended to get arrested at this point. Obviously he wanted to get to Ray, and downloaded the prison schematics...but what a strange way to get arrested. It seems unnecessarily risky to be driving at 2:53 when he anticipated things going haywire. Why not just sit alone in a room at that moment, and then get himself arrested some other safer way later?
I've struggled to reconcile how it is Cooper knows that the numbers the Fireman gives are supposed to correlate to miles in a car, and the only thing I could think is that when Cooper witnesses Mr. C on the highway, he extrapolates something about the urgency of his drive, or just the fact that this is one of the first things he sees after his instructions. Following that train of thought, is Mr. C trying to 'cross' in order to avoid the Red Room effects? Does he ever 'cross' as part of his plotting? There are skid marks going off-road in the P18 scene, perhaps implying a similar botched attempt to cross.
That’s interesting, I hadn’t noticed the skidmarks in P18. Will have to watch out for them and see if it looks like the same stretch of road. But I’d assumed the 430 miles began from Twin Peaks, and South Dakota is more than double that distance from, say, Spokane.
Yeah, I'm not sure they're the exact same stretch of road, because for instance I think we only ever see the massive electrical lines in P18. But the presence of the skidmarks there just too perfectly evokes P3 for me, and make me think at least a version of that scene occurred there. Perhaps Mr. C was racing to another similar crossing point.
Recipe not my own. In a coffee cup. 3 TBS flour, 2 TBS sugar, 1.5 TBS cocoa powder, .25 TSP baking powder, pinch of salt. 3 TBS milk, 1.5 TBS vegetable oil, 1 TBS peanut butter. Add and mix each set. Microwave 1 minute 10 seconds. The cup will be hot.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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Alright, finally a rewatch of part 3, first since 2017 (I may have seen it once in 2018)! :-) Overall, part 3 has been my favourite part all along, nothing changed there (and things had taken a nosedive for me shortly thereafter, with a temporary stabilisation in part 8 ).

I wanted to leave a comment on the song. "I am going down to the sea, M-l-S-S-l-S-S-l-P-P". Mississippi delta is near New Orleans where Phillip Jeffries comes from. And we cut to that scene from Philadelphia, which is where Phillip had once disappeared (Phillip had gone missing from Philadelphia). "I watch the Sun yellow and brown", which is the color of the Roadhouse light show for this act. And, if you pay attention to Dougie's attire, it is saffron/yellow jacket and brown pants. Oh yes, Mr. C. is driving a black Lincoln, and we'll see a "real" black Lincoln in part 8, and both were charged with electricity...
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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AXX°N N. wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
AXX°N N. wrote: I've struggled to reconcile how it is Cooper knows that the numbers the Fireman gives are supposed to correlate to miles in a car, and the only thing I could think is that when Cooper witnesses Mr. C on the highway, he extrapolates something about the urgency of his drive, or just the fact that this is one of the first things he sees after his instructions. Following that train of thought, is Mr. C trying to 'cross' in order to avoid the Red Room effects? Does he ever 'cross' as part of his plotting? There are skid marks going off-road in the P18 scene, perhaps implying a similar botched attempt to cross.
That’s interesting, I hadn’t noticed the skidmarks in P18. Will have to watch out for them and see if it looks like the same stretch of road. But I’d assumed the 430 miles began from Twin Peaks, and South Dakota is more than double that distance from, say, Spokane.
Yeah, I'm not sure they're the exact same stretch of road, because for instance I think we only ever see the massive electrical lines in P18. But the presence of the skidmarks there just too perfectly evokes P3 for me, and make me think at least a version of that scene occurred there. Perhaps Mr. C was racing to another similar crossing point.
I’d forgotten about this post. I just went back and looked, and I do see the skidmarks you’re mentioning in Part 18. However, when I look at Part 3, I note that Mr. C actually doesn’t make any skidmarks when he crashes!
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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When I first saw S3, it immediately occurred to me that L&F are using the idea of car as a symbol of physical body.

Mr. C here is a great example. He is inhabited by BOB, a malevolent spirit, and as we have seen that Mr. C likes to change cars, mimicking BOB's nature of possession via changing hosts. In the Lodge, in part 3, Cooper saw Mr. C driving a car, and had he not been prevented from leaving the lodge by the arm doppelgänger, Cooper would have taken Mr. C's place in the car, that is to say, he would have regained control of his body. Still, Mr. C's car is then overturned in a crash, and he lost most of his garmonbozia, thus leaving his body in a weakened state. And in part 7 he asks for a particular car again to be driven out of prison (by Ray).

What about Dougie? In the lodge his body starts shrinking first but then explodes, and Dougie's car exploded too (the explosive was placed on the order of Mr. C). And it was apparently not the first car accident that Dougie had. Cooper as Dougie was then driven first by Jade (representing libido), and then by all kinds of different people, yet he does not have a car, Cooper does not have control of his body. What about the last few parts? Cooper is driving with Diane by his side. And on the way back, he has Carrie Page alongside. In both cases he is in some sort of control, but what would Diane and Carrie represent here?

Also, in part 6, Richard takes some drug from Red and loses control of his car, signalling the loss of control over his senses. He simply drove too fast, his senses were out of control. And Jerry Horne, while high, cannot find his car, ergo he has no bodily awareness.

A careful rewatch might show a few additional scenes involving cars in this light (e.g. couple in the desert in part 8, their car approached by demons). Audrey's scenes may allude to it too.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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boske wrote:When I first saw S3, it immediately occurred to me that L&F are using the idea of car as a symbol of physical body.

Mr. C here is a great example. He is inhabited by BOB, a malevolent spirit, and as we have seen that Mr. C likes to change cars, mimicking BOB's nature of possession via changing hosts. In the Lodge, in part 3, Cooper saw Mr. C driving a car, and had he not been prevented from leaving the lodge by the arm doppelgänger, Cooper would have taken Mr. C's place in the car, that is to say, he would have retained control of his body. Still, Mr. C's car is then overturned in a crash, and he lost most of his garmonbozia, thus leaving his body in a weakened state. And in part 7 he asks for a particular car again to be driven out of prison (by Ray).

What about Dougie? In the lodge his body starts shrinking first but then explodes, and Dougie's car exploded too (the explosive was placed on the order of Mr. C). And it was apparently not the first car accident that Dougie had. Cooper as Dougie was then driven first by Jade (representing libido), and then by all kinds of different people, yet he does not have a car, Cooper does not have control of his body. What about the last few parts? Cooper is driving with Diane by his side. And on the way back, he has Carrie Page alongside. In both cases he is in some sort of control, but what would Diane and Carrie represent here?

Also, in part 6, Richard takes some drug from Red and loses control of his car, signalling the loss of control over his senses. He simply drove too fast, his senses were out of control. And Jerry Horne, while high, cannot find his car, ergo he has no bodily awareness.

A careful rewatch might show a few additional scenes involving cars in this light (e.g. couple in the desert in part 8, their car approached by demons). Audrey's scenes may allude to it too.
Interesting stuff. Also, when Cooper regains control over himself in Part 16, this is signified by Janey-E and Sonny Jim being impressed by how good a driver he is.

Also, we first see Cooper in the Pilot while driving.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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Mr. Reindeer wrote:
boske wrote:When I first saw S3, it immediately occurred to me that L&F are using the idea of car as a symbol of physical body.

Mr. C here is a great example. He is inhabited by BOB, a malevolent spirit, and as we have seen that Mr. C likes to change cars, mimicking BOB's nature of possession via changing hosts. In the Lodge, in part 3, Cooper saw Mr. C driving a car, and had he not been prevented from leaving the lodge by the arm doppelgänger, Cooper would have taken Mr. C's place in the car, that is to say, he would have regained control of his body. Still, Mr. C's car is then overturned in a crash, and he lost most of his garmonbozia, thus leaving his body in a weakened state. And in part 7 he asks for a particular car again to be driven out of prison (by Ray).

What about Dougie? In the lodge his body starts shrinking first but then explodes, and Dougie's car exploded too (the explosive was placed on the order of Mr. C). And it was apparently not the first car accident that Dougie had. Cooper as Dougie was then driven first by Jade (representing libido), and then by all kinds of different people, yet he does not have a car, Cooper does not have control of his body. What about the last few parts? Cooper is driving with Diane by his side. And on the way back, he has Carrie Page alongside. In both cases he is in some sort of control, but what would Diane and Carrie represent here?

Also, in part 6, Richard takes some drug from Red and loses control of his car, signalling the loss of control over his senses. He simply drove too fast, his senses were out of control. And Jerry Horne, while high, cannot find his car, ergo he has no bodily awareness.

A careful rewatch might show a few additional scenes involving cars in this light (e.g. couple in the desert in part 8, their car approached by demons). Audrey's scenes may allude to it too.
Interesting stuff. Also, when Cooper regains control over himself in Part 16, this is signified by Janey-E and Sonny Jim being impressed by how good a driver he is.

Also, we first see Cooper in the Pilot while driving.
Yes, and in the pilot he was leaving messages to her, and now she is there with him. I had speculated some time ago that Richard and Linda may be thought of as a Yin/Yang partition of a single entity or concept, thus "two birds with one stone", who knows.. By the way, I edited my previous posting, I meant to say "regained" and obviously not "retained".

FInally, I do not recall now, but didn't Mitchums gift a car to Joneses?
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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what's with Mr C's creepy voice in the interview scenes? Is it something to do with electricity and the microphone? You could chalk it up to him being affected by his near miss with the Lodge, but his voice returns to normal for the next few parts until it returns to creepy mode the next time he is behind a mic in the interview room again. These scenes are probably my favourite in The Return but I can't find much reason behind it other than it was a really cool and creepy thing to do to serve the scene.

I'd love anyone's take on anything about this scene. 'I've left messages..', 'I never really left home, Gordon..'. Did Mr C think at any time that he was convincing them he was Cooper? It seems half arsed on his part.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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Pinky wrote:what's with Mr C's creepy voice in the interview scenes? Is it something to do with electricity and the microphone? You could chalk it up to him being affected by his near miss with the Lodge, but his voice returns to normal for the next few parts until it returns to creepy mode the next time he is behind a mic in the interview room again. These scenes are probably my favourite in The Return but I can't find much reason behind it other than it was a really cool and creepy thing to do to serve the scene.
It is similar to that voice we hear over the phone in Mothman Prophecies (Indrid Cold), with the exception that Mr. C's is more slurred. It would therefore be something mechanical, electrical, otherworldly, non-existent. Even more importantly, remember Sarah's voice in Ep. 29 "I'm in the Black Lodge with Dale Cooper", thereby indicating something that was coming from the lodge, even though Mr. C wanted to avoid going back to it then, he was from the lodge after all.
Pinky wrote: I'd love anyone's take on anything about this scene. 'I've left messages..', 'I never really left home, Gordon..'. Did Mr C think at any time that he was convincing them he was Cooper? It seems half arsed on his part.
I think he was hinting that he never left FBI, he had been "inside" the organisation all along, having access to their network resources and data.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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The “prison interview” voice is also similar to Mr. C’s persona in Episode 29 after he has just exited the Lodge. “I need to brush my teeth.”
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Post by Pinky »

can't see why he'd do the voice only in the prison scenes. It's almost like the prison was the first scenes that they shot and they were going for something else initially with the voice but abandoned it. Not that I think this is what happened!
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