Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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BigEd
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:11 pm

ManBehindWinkies wrote:
BigEd wrote:Thanks Manbehindwinkies!!!! I'm accepting that the show was edited in a way to "play" with the song. Knowing Lynch's fondness for Wizard of Oz, and the history with Dark Side of the Moon (which I consider indisputable); it is very possible, if not likely, that they would slip something like this in. The album title is just icing on the cake.

I don't understand the text at the beginning though. Shouldn't it read "are not UNintentional."


Well, I've long been of the belief that the Dark Side of the Moon/Wizard of Oz thing was not intentional, but it's just an example of synchronicity that may have some kind of mysterious, cosmic origin, or simply a random coincidence. I may be strange but I find the former theory that some unrelated works may have some kind of cosmic synergistic alliance more plausible than a group of artists deciding they want to make one of the greatest albums in the history of rock that just happens to work as a soundtrack for an old children's film.

BigEd wrote:
Well then I'm nuts for agreeing with you! Welcome to the "nut" club. Some folks will simply disagree because a) it wasn't their idea/discovery, b) they understand nothing about the history of Wizard of Oz with Dark Side of the Moon, c) they haven't a clue who Pink Floyd is and/or d) they just like to argue/disagree with everything.


Okay, as far as not having a clue who Pink Floyd is, I'm pretty sure I can go toe to toe with anyone with my knowledge of the band and their music! :D I haven't heard anything concrete to suggest there's intention behind the Dark Side of the Moon/Wizard of Oz synchronicity. Members of the band have ridiculed the notion when they've been asked about it, granted it could be some secret but I don't see why they wouldn't admit it if that was their intention. But I'm open minded, feel free to educate me about the history of WoOz with DSotM, preferably with some credible links! But you know, if I was them, and I poured my heart and soul into creating something amazing, and a bunch of people started suggesting that one of my creative inspirations was to create a secret soundtrack to a film that might be discovered many years into the future when people actually have playback technology that allows them to sync it to the film, I'd probably ridicule it too.

As far as this Part 3/AHM thing, I actually started putting this video together a while back not long after I saw raltenbach's post. I didn't have time to actually upload it until this 4th of July weekend. I had that text there before, and my thought process was, there's no way David Lynch is going to take the time to edit this monumental set piece to Atom Heart Mother then take the music out and add in his sound design. Like why? He's got so many things on his plate directing editing and creating the sound design for an 18 hour long piece.

But of course, I really didn't think about the name Atom Heart Mother suddenly having more relevance after Part 8 until people brought it up in response to the video. Which has admittedly given me a Hawk Chocolate Bunnies moment about this whole thing. I might have left that line out if I'd realized it. Still, I have to be convinced. You are free to try!

Maybe I don't know as much as you about Pink Floyd (I probably do) and don't know much about the history of Oz/Dark Side (I know something about it), but I do understand something of the creative process that goes into creating an album or creating a film, and the idea that either Pink Floyd or David Lynch would want to intentionally synchronize their work to something else doesn't make much sense. Go back and look how this was discovered, raltenbach was just spitballing. Probably nobody would have discovered this otherwise.

I'm not ridiculing these synchronicities, BTW, obviously I took the time to put this together. I think it's a lot of fun, and I do like thinking about the potential mystical explanations. I bet if someone showed this to Lynch (which I hope no one does because it would probably get taken down), him being a practitioner of TM, he'd probably suggest he tapped into the same unified field of creative inspiration that Floyd did when they created AHM. And really, that actually makes more sense to me.


Man 'o Man Manbehindwinkies.... :lol:

I'll tell you everything I know about Wizard of Oz and Dark Side of the Moon.

a) Like many, I watched the movie countless times growing up because there simply wasn't much to watch (you may fairly call it a "children's film," but it has more levels than that - one could say a "dark side")
b) Pink Floyd is my all time favorite band, and I listened to them from teen years on
c) I first heard about the connection circa 1995, and first reaction was "whaaat???"
d) Rather than read the expert opinions, I simply played the album while watching the film
e) To my mathematical mind, the connections simply cannot be written off to coincidence (both music and lyrics - "balanced," "black and blue," witch is witch," etc. Not sure if I can call Toto laughing "lyrics," but it's one of my favorite parts). One of the big deals with the movie was when it switched to color. Color film was equated with huge "money" back in that time. Guess what song comes on when the film switched to color?
f) Just look at the album cover. Black/white to color through the prism.

I suggest a second watch of the album/film together and maybe you'll see the light. :D

To suggest that Pink Floyd synchronized the music to the film in no way takes away from their genius. It may add to it.

Remember, Lynch is a big Oz fan. Check out the witches' brooms in about every film (two in Otis's farm house as I recall). One on the porch of Theresa Bank's trailer. One in the scene of your namesake!! (the place behind Winkies - of course the very term "Winkies" also comes from Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby ManBehindWinkies » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:17 pm

Well BigEd we may just need to agree to disagree. I've experienced enough strange coincidence and synchronicity in my own life not to discount either the possibility of really bizarre coincidence or something more mysterious.

I'm also big on needing to understand peoples motivations. It may indeed add to the genius of Floyd if they created an amazing, seminal rock opera and managed to make it a secret soundtrack to a classic film, but why? It's an arduous enough process to create an incredible rock album, making sure it syncs to a film adds so much effort to what is already an extremely challenging undertaking. And remember, the technology for anyone to actually combine the album with the film would not exist for a good 10 years after the album was released. Vinyl has slightly inconsistent playback speeds so the sync would not work until the advent of CDs (not to mention CDs were the first playback technology that didn't require changing sides, which is absolutely necessary to avoid for the "Money" synchronicity you mentioned to work). So they go through all this effort in the hope that future technology will make it possible for people to sync the film with the album, then when it's discovered they ridicule the notion. Why? What could possibly motivate them to put in the effort for something that at the time wouldn't even be possible to do and then adamantly deny it later when asked about it?

Let's get back to Lynch though, as there are actually more credible reasons to think this might be intentional. One the technology to pull it off and for people to sync it actually exists. You are assuming he believes in this intentional connection between Wizard of Oz and Floyd and wants to mimic that. But again, he's putting in a lot of extra effort for something that has little chance of being discovered. It was discovered through spitballing on a forum, but this is still fairly obscure and I doubt it's going to catch on the way Oz/Dark Side or even 2001/Echoes has (that's a mashup of possibly my favorite film with my favorite song, so I love it, but I'm not convinced it was intentional). That Lynch loves Wizard of Oz is not a compelling enough motivation for me to think he'd do this intentionally.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree, but we can probably agree all these synchronicities whatever the explanation are really, really cool! It's always great to discover two seemingly random things I love fit together like a glove.
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BigEd
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:12 pm

ManBehindWinkies wrote:Well BigEd we may just need to agree to disagree. I've experienced enough strange coincidence and synchronicity in my own life not to discount either the possibility of really bizarre coincidence or something more mysterious.


Fair enough. My life hasn't included the same experiences, however being (well) on the North side of 50 I've had ample opportunity.

ManBehindWinkies wrote:I'm also big on needing to understand peoples motivations. It may indeed add to the genius of Floyd if they created an amazing, seminal rock opera and managed to make it a secret soundtrack to a classic film, but why? It's an arduous enough process to create an incredible rock album, making sure it syncs to a film adds so much effort to what is already an extremely challenging undertaking. And remember, the technology for anyone to actually combine the album with the film would not exist for a good 10 years after the album was released. Vinyl has slightly inconsistent playback speeds so the sync would not work until the advent of CDs (not to mention CDs were the first playback technology that didn't require changing sides, which is absolutely necessary to avoid for the "Money" synchronicity you mentioned to work). So they go through all this effort in the hope that future technology will make it possible for people to sync the film with the album, then when it's discovered they ridicule the notion. Why? What could possibly motivate them to put in the effort for something that at the time wouldn't even be possible to do and then adamantly deny it later when asked about it?


Like I said, I'm a math guy (left brain). I have given up trying to understand how the other half lives. That said, I really admire what they come up with. I have no problem accepting that a group of "artists" would find their motivation in syncing a new masterpiece with an earlier masterpiece. Maybe that's where the motivation came from? Like I said, I don't understand any of that; but I can admire the result.

btw: I bought my first component cassette deck in 1976 and was fully equipped to sync the full Dark Side of the Moon album with a viewing of the Wizard of Oz, so ten years is not correct. I didn't have to change sides on a 90 minute cassette. Cassettes existed well before that (although my friends bought 8 tracks :lol: ). Reel to reel was around many years before.

ManBehindWinkies wrote: Let's get back to Lynch though, as there are actually more credible reasons to think this might be intentional. One the technology to pull it off and for people to sync it actually exists. You are assuming he believes in this intentional connection between Wizard of Oz and Floyd and wants to mimic that. But again, he's putting in a lot of extra effort for something that has little chance of being discovered. It was discovered through spitballing on a forum, but this is still fairly obscure and I doubt it's going to catch on the way Oz/Dark Side or even 2001/Echoes has (that's a mashup of possibly my favorite film with my favorite song, so I love it, but I'm not convinced it was intentional). That Lynch loves Wizard of Oz is not a compelling enough motivation for me to think he'd do this intentionally.


I think we have ample evidence that DL does a lot for his own entertainment/fulfillment/amusement and may have little interest in the audience ever "discovering" what he has done.

ManBehindWinkies wrote:
Anyway, we can agree to disagree, but we can probably agree all these synchronicities whatever the explanation are really, really cool! It's always great to discover two seemingly random things I love fit together like a glove.


Absolutely! :D
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby ManBehindWinkies » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:24 pm

One example of wild coincidence or synchronicity in my life: In college I'd met this guy from London who was studying stateside for a year... I was kind of in between friends and acquaintances with him, and when he went back to London I didn't have his contact info. A couple of years later I was travelling alone in London for a week, and I thought about him thinking it would have been cool if I could hit him up. My first night there I'm walking around after I had dinner, and I decide to find a pub. Guess who is in the first one I walk into?

It probably wouldn't be appropriate to keep discussing Wizard of Oz, but honestly the term "Atom Heart Mother" and how closely that fits with what we saw in Part 8 definitely has me much less sure about intent with Lynch. If I'm asking to understand motivation, I can possibly see one brewing there, if Lynch was inspired by the name of the song to conjure up part of what we saw in that episode. Well that could be his motivation to sync this part where the Atom Heart Mother is potentially off screen banging on the door or walls. I don't know, worthy of a discussion.

And to be honest, I'm somewhat interested in seeing if this can go viral and spread like the other ones we've discussed, so please feel free to share the video and ask the question if there's anything to it!
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:02 am

cow bob cow.jpg
cow bob cow.jpg (345.19 KiB) Viewed 1289 times
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BigEd
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:29 pm

Hey, isn't that the cow that jumped over the moon? :lol:
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:26 am

Does anyone know the origin of the footage of Don Davis in this episode?
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:23 am

Just watched Wizard of Oz and Dark Side of the Moon synced because that Atom Heart Mother sync up was cool. I don't get it. Some of the scenes are the same time as the song. The moody flowy songs sometimes catch the beats of the story, but not crazy impressively. Maybe I'm missing out on something?

It also works if you sync it with lost highway - I did this once by chance, album starting right as the lead credits end. Clocks and alarm match with phone ringing, worked as a score maybe even better than W'Oz
i .. am .. not ... your... foot
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BigEd
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:05 pm

sylvia_north wrote:Just watched Wizard of Oz and Dark Side of the Moon synced because that Atom Heart Mother sync up was cool. I don't get it. Some of the scenes are the same time as the song. The moody flowy songs sometimes catch the beats of the story, but not crazy impressively. Maybe I'm missing out on something?


You must not have started it at the right time.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby nick1218 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:09 am

Pinky wrote:my god, MacLachlan's delivery in the prison scene was bloody terrifying, the 'Philip Jeffries' line especially. Chilling


Yeah but it was very odd how his voice was altered just for this one scene. I mean it is deep in every scene, but the prison scene voice was very different
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:44 am

Dougie (or as his license plate said Duge) has a ceramic owl in his kitchen
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:56 am

BigEd wrote:
Mr. Strawberry wrote: Regarding comparisons that some have made to The Wizard of Oz, it popped into my head too just as soon as his shoes fell off. On a related note there's a lot of discussion about "why" his FBI pin didn't make it through the portal while the key did, but the easy answer is that it simply fell off just like his shoes did, while the key was safe in his pocket.


Since Coop's shoes didn't come through he was ready to take his second ride with Jade in his socks. Jade scolded him, went back into the house and came out with shoes for him. Where did those shoes come from? Well, I rewatched and the manufactured Dougie who had been pulled into the red room was clearly in just socks. So, Dougie's shoes didn't travel either, and evidently were left behind for Coop. So, not plot hole, just a strange thing happening with shoes. As we know, just because something seems random at first, it may later have some meaning. So keep an eye on shoes for the next couple episodes. :lol:


some connection with Jerry Horne scene?
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:46 am

What is up with Dougie's name being repeated so many times? I find it a very odd choice. It surely is not needed nor funny. A grown man has a kids name, got it. Its cute, but it seems every single character who interacts with him needs to keep saying his name over and over and over. It is quite distracting.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Eirikur » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:10 pm

My guess about the constant use of Dougie's name is that the characters are trying to get his attention, get him to respond. He doesn't pay attention or respond, so they keep trying harder.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:12 pm

Zachary wrote:I found the "Cooper replaces Doug" house on Google Maps :lol:

This street view picture is from 2008, but the app on my phone has an image from 2013. This is in Palmdale, CA.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/34%C2%B034'13.3%22N+118%C2%B000'30.4%22W/@34.570362,-118.0089965,171m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d34.570362!4d-118.008448


interesting. Palmdale is right next to an area north of LA where there are, well its like sets that don't belong to a studio, like some ghost town. There are diners and gas stations and whatnot and lots of filming goes on there. They must have found a house not far to use.

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