Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

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Jasper
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:03 pm

djsunyc wrote:

WOW


Yeah, this was very interesting, as was the side-by-side video from part 15.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:51 am

Rewatched episode 3:

- We get another Billy (the cop who finds Mr. C in his car)
- Jade says something along the lines of "get in there", Dougie repeats "in there" and raises his hand it seems (kind of obstructed) and points towards the electronic in the car.
- The drugged out mother with the kid is really peculiar. If she´s high all day and presumably unemployed how can they live in such a nice neighbourhood? You expect her more in a ghetto. Also 119 read backwards is obviously 911, a call for help. Is does in anyway connected to Dougie?
- The bunny-scene is even funnier, knowing that they have to go to Jack Rabbit´s Palace. Lucy´s greed for chocalate 25 years ago was a vital pointer. :mrgreen:
- Good to see Mrs. Jackpots again, they really done a good job of making her particularly homeless-looking. She looks so much different than in episode 11.
- Still trying to figure out if there´s more to Cooper loosing his shoes than just having this amusing gag where they fall down on the floor in the Pink Room. Maybe Cooper stole the shoes from Lodge-shoes salesman Mike and he´s not having it. ^^
- The last song in the Roadhouse is an odd choice for me. In general there are a lot of bands on the show which songs I really love but there are also some that I´m really indifferent to. "Mississippi" by the Cactus Blossoms seems like an odd choice here.
- The scenes with Naido are more confusing to me than before. Why is she sacrifcing herself for Cooper? And why is American Girl taking her place in the room? It doesn´t get any bluer.
- Briggs´giant floating head is interesting here given that we know that he´s in the white lodge now, I think ? Him saying "blue rose" might trigger something in Cooper to help him remember his plan why he went there in the first place.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:56 am

Firewalkwithme91 wrote:- The drugged out mother with the kid is really peculiar. If she´s high all day and presumably unemployed how can they live in such a nice neighbourhood? You expect her more in a ghetto. Also 119 read backwards is obviously 911, a call for help. Is does in anyway connected to Dougie?


it's been noted that the mother and kid is likely squatters, crashing in one of the many vacant houses in the Rancho Rosa community.. much of the neighborhood looks deserted, there's at least one For sale sign close by, barely any cars in the houses around and most importantly the house where Dougie and Jade are having sex is a vacant house. Jade seems to know a real estate agent which lets her access houses to take her clients to.

- Still trying to figure out if there´s more to Cooper loosing his shoes than just having this amusing gag where they fall down on the floor in the Pink Room. Maybe Cooper stole the shoes from Lodge-shoes salesman Mike and he´s not having it. ^^


also the FBI lapel pin which he has on in every scene up until he leaves the Mauve Room..

- The scenes with Naido are more confusing to me than before. Why is she sacrifcing herself for Cooper? And why is American Girl taking her place in the room? It doesn´t get any bluer.


the whole Naido thing is confusing as hell.. but as far as her pulling the switch, i am completely buying the AC/DC electricity theory. and it corresponds nicely to explain why Mister C needed to be alone for a few days, and why he was out in the desert. and if you listen to the dialouge they make clear that he was driving in the opposite direction from the prison... so what he was there for has to do with his plan for escaping the Black Lodge which he told Darya about the night before. read more on that theory here, thanks to user SecretlyNotCool:

https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comm ... erm=6dz7ad
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:15 am

claaa7 wrote:
Firewalkwithme91 wrote:- The drugged out mother with the kid is really peculiar. If she´s high all day and presumably unemployed how can they live in such a nice neighbourhood? You expect her more in a ghetto. Also 119 read backwards is obviously 911, a call for help. Is does in anyway connected to Dougie?


it's been noted that the mother and kid is likely squatters, crashing in one of the many vacant houses in the Rancho Rosa community.. much of the neighborhood looks deserted, there's at least one For sale sign close by, barely any cars in the houses around and most importantly the house where Dougie and Jade are having sex is a vacant house. Jade seems to know a real estate agent which lets her access houses to take her clients to.


It's been said* that the whole Rancho Rosa housing estate is meant to represent one of the casualties of the global credit crunch that saw so many mortgaged properties foreclosed. As far as I can recall the analyses of the times, following the Lehman Brothers collapse and knock-on bursts, a wave of such mass foreclosures spread from southern states northward, with whole residential areas being emptied of people. Because modern economies are largely financialised, the collapse of credit default-swaps and other 'creative' financial products hit many economies hard.

It's interesting that the fall-out of all this made its way onscreen, if only tangentially, into Twin Peaks: The Return. It certainly helped set up the contemporary feel of the series, and marked a clear difference from the ethos of the old series, which in comparison unfolded very much in a bubble.

I loved the 119 woman and wish she could have appeared again in some other role. The extremely dramatic organ music that plays over her awakening from reverie in one scene certainly suggested that she might have greater significance than she was ultimately given.

*I know, I know, [citation needed] and all that, but I can't remember who said it or on what forum.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:37 am

Novalis wrote:
claaa7 wrote:
Firewalkwithme91 wrote:- The drugged out mother with the kid is really peculiar. If she´s high all day and presumably unemployed how can they live in such a nice neighbourhood? You expect her more in a ghetto. Also 119 read backwards is obviously 911, a call for help. Is does in anyway connected to Dougie?


it's been noted that the mother and kid is likely squatters, crashing in one of the many vacant houses in the Rancho Rosa community.. much of the neighborhood looks deserted, there's at least one For sale sign close by, barely any cars in the houses around and most importantly the house where Dougie and Jade are having sex is a vacant house. Jade seems to know a real estate agent which lets her access houses to take her clients to.


It's been said* that the whole Rancho Rosa housing estate is meant to represent one of the casualties of the global credit crunch that saw so many mortgaged properties foreclosed. As far as I can recall the analyses of the times, following the Lehman Brothers collapse and knock-on bursts, a wave of such mass foreclosures spread from southern states northward, with whole residential areas being emptied of people. Because modern economies are largely financialised, the collapse of credit default-swaps and other 'creative' financial products hit many economies hard.

It's interesting that the fall-out of all this made its way onscreen, if only tangentially, into Twin Peaks: The Return. It certainly helped set up the contemporary feel of the series, and marked a clear difference from the ethos of the old series, which in comparison unfolded very much in a bubble.

I loved the 119 woman and wish she could have appeared again in some other role. The extremely dramatic organ music that plays over her awakening from reverie in one scene certainly suggested that she might have greater significance than she was ultimately given.

*I know, I know, [citation needed] and all that, but I can't remember who said it or on what forum.


great points, there really was a contemporary feel to much of what we saw on screen this year.. Janey-E's speech about being part of the 99% and living in dark times, the seeming corruption and lack of care amongst each other spreading through Twin Peaks, were other examples that i thought were poignant
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:41 am

That´s pretty interesting especially the AC/DC-theory. I just feel like it´s too technical for me to really appreciate it instead of having a strong gut feeling about what´s going on in those scenes.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:04 am

Firewalkwithme91 wrote:That´s pretty interesting especially the AC/DC-theory. I just feel like it´s too technical for me to really appreciate it instead of having a strong gut feeling about what´s going on in those scenes.


yes the beauty is that we all have our individual reactions to it.. to me i always felt that the 3/15 machine had to do with Cooper's switch with the Doppelganger and the elctricity in the car battery considering how the scene is intercut and the importance of electricity with the spirit realms of Twin Peaks, so when i read that theory along with the fact that Mister C was driving the opposite way from the prison it just felt like it all coming together for me.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:13 am

Defintely.


Another point that I wanted to mention was the Congressman´s dilemma. Does Gordon Cole present us what we can expect for this season when he looks at all the disparate clues on the table? There are a lot different things on the table that don´t seem so add up to a solution of the presented case but there is still a need of wanting to figure it all out even though some clues might lead to a dead end and are just ancillary to the feeling of mystery that they evoke.


Oh, and another thing: It´s curious to me that we see the Experiment on the photos that Albert, Gordon and Tammy watch but no Cooper. If Mr. C is responsible for the glass box experiment it makes sense that they didn´t show the FBI those pictures otherwise Cole and co. would know that Cooper is back. But if Mr. C is behind it all why give the FBI any evidence at all? Just let the bodies disappear. Sounds like a job for Hutch and Chantal.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:18 pm

Novalis wrote:It's interesting that the fall-out of all this made its way onscreen, if only tangentially, into Twin Peaks: The Return. It certainly helped set up the contemporary feel of the series, and marked a clear difference from the ethos of the old series, which in comparison unfolded very much in a bubble.


So that was the true source of the mysterious feeling of menace that hung over the town of Twin Peaks. :lol:

"There's a man...at Twin Peaks Savings and Loan. He's the one who's doing it. I can see him through the wall. I can see his face."
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:42 am

Firewalkwithme91 wrote:Defintely.


Another point that I wanted to mention was the Congressman´s dilemma. Does Gordon Cole present us what we can expect for this season when he looks at all the disparate clues on the table? There are a lot different things on the table that don´t seem so add up to a solution of the presented case but there is still a need of wanting to figure it all out even though some clues might lead to a dead end and are just ancillary to the feeling of mystery that they evoke.


haha i had a laugh at that scene during my rewatch.. truly absurd! and the way Cole shouts - "THE CONGESSMAN's DILEMMA!"

Oh, and another thing: It´s curious to me that we see the Experiment on the photos that Albert, Gordon and Tammy watch but no Cooper. If Mr. C is responsible for the glass box experiment it makes sense that they didn´t show the FBI those pictures otherwise Cole and co. would know that Cooper is back. But if Mr. C is behind it all why give the FBI any evidence at all? Just let the bodies disappear. Sounds like a job for Hutch and Chantal.


i took it as that the otherwordly presences that materialized in the box was barely able to register on a camera.. doesn't Tammy says that the Experiment was visible on one or a couple of frames only?
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:10 am

i took it as that the otherwordly presences that materialized in the box was barely able to register on a camera.. doesn't Tammy says that the Experiment was visible on one or a couple of frames only?


Yeah, she does.
So, do you think that Mr. C is behind the glass box experiment? Upon rewatching I realized that Sam is really the only one that talks about a mysterious billionaire that owns the place and he could´ve been easily lied to. Apart from that we just have the photo of Mr. C and the floating bald monk to tie him to this place. Sure, we know he´s looking for the thing on this card but in the rest of the show he´s looking for coordinates instead of conducting experiments. But then maybe after the glass box broke he decided to take matters into his own hands and not wait for something to materialize.

It´s funny I rewatched the first four episodes of the show, thinking that I would´ve more clarity on things but I´m even more confused now. :lol: Which is a great thing. I wonder what theories people will come up with in 6 months or a year´s time, this is exciting.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:44 am

Rewatched episode 4.

Some notes:

- The way the old lady (Mr. Jackpots) eagerly waits for Dougie to show her which slot-machine she should use reminded me of Senior Droolcup waiting for a thumbs up from Cooper.

- The way Dougie murmurs "home" when talking with Bill Shaker felt a lot more resonant to me now, knowing how long it will take for Cooper to return. It´s really touching.
Also: Another Bill? But that´s not the last one for this episode. We also have Bill, Denise´s secretary and we had Bill Hastings in the first two episodes (which I forgot to mention). It´s interesting that way later in the show Audrey wants to know where Billy is when we already met a handful of them but they aren´t the one that we associate with her.

- Dougie´s whole winning-streak already sets us up for how absurd and surreal his interactions with other people and his surroundings are going to be. The casino manager hands him over the money even though they clearly realize that Dougie seems mentally handicaped. But they can´t say no to him for some reason. Dougie is invicible and a money magnet. :)

- Dougie realizes he´s being watched. Does he just react to the electrical cracklings that are coming from the cameras above him?

- I like that the limo driver seems to genuinely like Dougie and wants to bring him home save. Interesting, considering that he´s associating himself with cut-throat gangsters.

- It also was a lot more poignant to me to see Dougie standing outside of "his house", looking at the red door, knowing that Cooper won´t make it behind that specific door at the end of the series but his tulpa will. Cooper won´t have a wife and a kid even though he had the chance to. But he went off, wanting to be a hero again...

- Is there any significance to Sunny-Jim´s birthday overlaping with the "birth" of the new Dougie?

- That photoshopped family picture of the Brennan´s is fucking hilarious. It´s so badly done that it has to be intentional. Very often in tv shows you see that kind of photo where the people on it were clearly pasted in but this takes it to another level. I´m not really convinced that Wally is actually their kid.

- The first scene with the new Truman is interesting in retrospect. He goes to the back room and talks to the dispatcher. Chad makes some comment and Truman looks at him kind of suspiciously. At this point they must´ve already set up their investigation into whatever Chad is doing. This also reminds me: If Chad is going down and he didn´t die from Hulk Smash Freddie´s punch, he might sing about Richard Horne´s involvment in the drug trade. Which doesn´t matter because he´s dead but maybe this trail would lead to Red as well who seemed like Richard´s "boss" in some way.

- The scene where Bobby is crying over Laura´s picture is really affecting. It comes out of nowhere - especially the music - and it almost doesn´t work for me but seeing Ashbrook´s heartfelt performance and Lucy and Andy holding hands just tears me up. It´s like the grief over Laura is flooding right back.

- Bobby tells them that Cooper showed up at his dad´s station, a day before he died. I still can´t wrap my head around the idea that Cole, Cooper and Briggs sat together and cooked up this convoluted plan to fight Judy when there´s absolutely no indication of that happening in the original series. The first time I heard Bobby say that I actually thought that Mr. C had shown up at Briggs´ station and was concocting some evil plan to doublecross him. The only way I see that working would be if Cooper knows everything that Mr. C knows and vice versa. As if they share the same brain or consciousness.
I´m open to hearing some theories about this but this a big chance in the continuity of the show which I usually don´t like but on the other hand sparked a lot of the great sequences in this new season. The end justifies the means, I guess.

- Jesse is weird as shit. The way he walks in and adjustes his posture before speaking is very funny. He reminds me a lot of certain peculiar characters from the old show that would just show up, do something quirky and leave.

- Denise receives red roes, Cole has to deal with the blue ones. An obvious distinction of their respective fields of work?

- The Wally Brando-scene is very amusing to me. Michael Cera seem barely animated in this scene and I think if Lucy and Andy would take their hands off of him he would just fall apart, like he´s a hand puppet or something. :mrgreen: The biggest source of comedy here are his ridiculous, pseudo-philosophical lines, Andy and Lucy´s pride as if everything he says is pure gold and Frank Truman´s stoic non-reactions and headshaking.

- The Dougie goes to the bathroom-scene is funnier for me if I imagine Janey-E yelling at him for making a mess and her having to clean it all up. :lol:

- Funny how coffee seems to wake Cooper up for a split second...and then he falls back into Dougie-mode.

- The carsick-scene is incredibly funny to me. This time around I especially liked Tammy´s little hand-waving gesture to the driver. It´s like she already knows the Albert & Gordon-show in and out at this point.

- We don´t find out who the guy was that Mr. C killed upon receiving certain informations from Albert, do we? Another loose end.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:12 am

Firewalkwithme91 wrote:
i took it as that the otherwordly presences that materialized in the box was barely able to register on a camera.. doesn't Tammy says that the Experiment was visible on one or a couple of frames only?


Yeah, she does.
So, do you think that Mr. C is behind the glass box experiment? Upon rewatching I realized that Sam is really the only one that talks about a mysterious billionaire that owns the place and he could´ve been easily lied to. Apart from that we just have the photo of Mr. C and the floating bald monk to tie him to this place. Sure, we know he´s looking for the thing on this card but in the rest of the show he´s looking for coordinates instead of conducting experiments. But then maybe after the glass box broke he decided to take matters into his own hands and not wait for something to materialize.


yes i think that Mister C is behind the glass box as we are explicitly shown a photo of him which Tammy says was taken from one of the earliest storage drives.. that would indicate that Mister C was around at the very beginning of the project being set up, so i feel that's the conclusion Lynch & Frost wants us to take away from being shown that photo. whether the point of the box is to capture Judy (or The Experiment/Mother) or somehow trap Cooper if the Dougie plans fail i'm not sure about though. perhaps both..

as you mention the mysterious billionaire is Sam relaying a rumor to Tracy, but at the same time a penthouse of that size in the middle of NYC with all that equipment would cost LOADS.. perhaps Duncan Todd fronted the money as he seemed to do anything Mister C asked him to out of fear.

i read a nice YouTube comment about the 3 and 15 gigantic electric boxes in the Mauve Room that i hadn't realized.. while he's there Cooper has the 315 Great Northern hotel key in his pocket.. not sure if it means anything but it's a nice case of synchronicity. i also just read the Ronnie Rocket script where the entire outcome of the plot as far as the title character is concerned hinges on switching from AC to DC electricity, so the concept is near and dear to Lynch's heart.
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:26 am

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.


as you mention the mysterious billionaire is Sam relaying a rumor to Tracy, but at the same time a penthouse of that size in the middle of NYC with all that equipment would cost LOADS.. perhaps Duncan Todd fronted the money as he seemed to do anything Mister C asked him to out of fear.


Yeah, Todd definitely seemed to be Mr. C´s bank and coordinator. He didn´t take a lot of action, he just sat in his office and waited to react. This just occured to me but when he tells Roger "tell her she got the job" who does he mean by that? Tracy? But she already died at this point. Chantal also seems to already have a long-term working relationship with Mr. C. Or is this a case of time being nonlinear again?
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Re: Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:57 am

Firewalkwithme91 wrote:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, Todd definitely seemed to be Mr. C´s bank and coordinator. He didn´t take a lot of action, he just sat in his office and waited to react. This just occured to me but when he tells Roger "tell her she got the job" who does he mean by that? Tracy? But she already died at this point. Chantal also seems to already have a long-term working relationship with Mr. C. Or is this a case of time being nonlinear again?


haha yeah, both Mr. Todd and Ben was practically glued to their seats this season.

i'm thinking the woman Mr. Todd is telling Roger that she has the job is the woman i think was credited as Lorraine, the one with the hip hop beat theme song. and then when she failed he instead Ike The Spike to kill both her and "Dougie"... she wasn't given much of a chance though, was she?

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