Parts 3 & 4 - Call for help & ...brings back some memories (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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mtwentz
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby mtwentz » Mon May 22, 2017 2:09 pm

Ross wrote:I think my biggest problem with the new show is the disconnect. Which I wasn't expecting. One thing about the original show that made me love it so much was the emotional connection. To the characters, town, music. Even in the second half of season 2 when the storyline wasn't as strong, I still loved it because the characters were so endearing, and the music so memorable. Even the more serious FWWM had Laura at its emotional center. But the new show is so stylized and unnatural, and with no music, that I loose that emotional component. Even with our original characters, Lynch has them deliver their lines in such stilted manner that it takes away from caring about them. On top of that playing Lucy even more broadly than she was before. I don't hate it, but I hate that I don't love it.


I definitely see your point there. Like others, I think the emotional connection is going to be rebuilt slowly, but we shall see.

I think most of us agree that the brief Bobby/Laura moment in the Sherriff's Station was the closest we came to feeling that emotional center from the original series.

As for the Badalamanti music- I guess we are all surprised we have heard very little in the way of new compositions.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby arfredo » Mon May 22, 2017 2:17 pm

mtwentz wrote:
Ross wrote:
mtwentz wrote:Is Dougie any sillier than Windom Earle playing flute in his PJs?

I think so yes. Not Dougie himself, but the reactions, or non-reactions, of the people around him are more absurd than anything in S2 to me. Is his wife also an idiot? Her husband can't dress himself, talk, or go to the bathroom on his own and she doesn't call a doctor? I also think some of the Lucy humor is more broad then her stuff from the original.


Just to play Devil's Advocate...

In the S2 opener, we had a room service waiter oblivious to the fact that Agent Cooper was shot, bleeding and possibly dying right in front of him. In Wild At Heart, we had the Sherilyn Fenn character focusing on finding a hairbrush while bruised and bleeding from a car accident and in need of immediate medical attention.

It's absurdist but there is a certain reality to it too- people sometimes react in unexpected ways- or don't react at all- under intense pressure or under life's ordinary pressures. I had a cousin who had a tumor the size of a grapefruit in his head, and was exhibiting very odd behavior for a long time, but no one thought to get him a check up until it was almost too late.


Well, I don't think that one extremely old, possibly senile waiter; or a concussed, shocked girl who has just been in an accident and can not fully understand their surroundings are comparable to the several dozens of people in their right minds who interact with "Dougie", including a lover, a friend, a wife and a son, and who accept his complete blankness as just a quirky little weirdness. And in the case of the people who know him, his sudden change of built, clothes and hair.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Rami Airola » Mon May 22, 2017 2:18 pm

Things I got:

-Before seeing Michael Cera, I noticed the picture with Lucy, Andy and their kid, and the kid definitely had Michael Cera's face photoshopped on it. It was funny. That's when I knew Cera has to be their kid.

-That said, Wally might become one of my favorite characters in Twin Peaks, ever. :)
He has definitely inherited his mother's habit of not knowing when to stop talking :D

-I kinda liked seeing Bell as Tamara. It was a complete surprise. And while I can see some "woodenness" in her presence I have kinda bought her already. There is this weird mixture of awkwardness and total self-confidence in her.

-I think the Dougie stuff is also supposed to be some sort of a metaphor about aging. It's about senility. Some old people become senile. And the show around him is kinda like a senile person veeeryyyy slooowlyyyy regaining the memories of his youth.

-I didn't notice it was Briggs who was floating in space. Nice to know that!

-I kinda think the first time Kyle brought a hint of his acting skills and reminded of the Cooper we all know was when he was "Dougie" (not the real Dougie with the fake hair but the CooperDougie). I kinda felt some of the stuff he does in the Red Room etc and the Bad Cooper stuff lacks energy. But for some reason when he is acting all senile, there suddenly is this nice energy in his acting and it felt more dynamic.

-It was nice to see how suddenly the Sheriff's station got more life to it. In the first two episodes it felt so lifeless.
It's as if bringing out the old Laura Palmer stuff finally gets the spark of life back to the town (or at least to the station).
I wonder if in the next few episodes they slowly start to bring back the jazz shuffle. When they uncover more of stuff from the old Laura Palmer case, it brings the old feelings and mood back more and more.

-And once again, I "hated" the first one or two episodes, but I absolutely love these episodes.


EDIT:
-Oh, and I loved Forster's Frank Truman. He didn't do much but had a tremendous presence!

-And I loved the discussion about whether the chocolate bunnies are important.

-And I loved the part where Andy tries to explain mobile phones to Lucy.
Last edited by Rami Airola on Mon May 22, 2017 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TheGum
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby TheGum » Mon May 22, 2017 2:23 pm

I feel very strongly that the missing music is very intentional and that it serves an extremely valuable purpose in the narrative as a means to remind the viewer that things are not as they should be. When you get a little it's so very remarkable and really makes you sit up and pay closer attention. Even during the DroolCoop breakfast scene you hear the drums and assume it's verging on normal and what you actually hear is so disorienting as it's a song you likely already know inside, but it feels both familiar and uncomfortable in the context of Twin Peaks.

I'm sure many of you will Slaughter me for this- but I'm reminded of the hospital shooter episode in Greys Anatomy. Regardless of what your opinion on that show is, it's certainly known for overly emotional music playing at nearly any moment with tension, conflict, or drama. Much like TP, the music is a character. During the shooter episode anytime the shooter is around there is no music. In fact there's an eerily similar barely audible hum, and it starts to really train you to be on edge. I feel the effect is similar here.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Rami Airola » Mon May 22, 2017 2:34 pm

TheGum wrote:I feel very strongly that the missing music is very intentional and that it serves an extremely valuable purpose in the narrative as a means to remind the viewer that things are not as they should be. When you get a little it's so very remarkable and really makes you sit up and pay closer attention. Even during the DroolCoop breakfast scene you hear the drums and assume it's verging on normal and what you actually hear is so disorienting as it's a song you likely already know inside, but it feels both familiar and uncomfortable in the context of Twin Peaks.

I'm sure many of you will Slaughter me for this- but I'm reminded of the hospital shooter episode in Greys Anatomy. Regardless of what your opinion on that show is, it's certainly known for overly emotional music playing at nearly any moment with tension, conflict, or drama. Much like TP, the music is a character. During the shooter episode anytime the shooter is around there is no music. In fact there's an eerily similar barely audible hum, and it starts to really train you to be on edge. I feel the effect is similar here.


Well, I think you are correct here in that it is purposeful.
But I don't agree it's necessarily effective.

Sometimes things without music is the way it should be done. But here the musicless scenes feel way too empty.

However, I think the show is about getting old and forgetting things that used to be. We see the old places we used to visit but somehow they don't have that same spark anymore.
And in Twin Peaks, as the Laura Palmer case had been forgotten, and Cooper has been gone, things just have got very stale. But now as Cooper is coming back and the Laura Palmer case is brought back to be studied, things slowly start to come back. People will get moments of the old feelings and moods. They remember how things used to be, slowly. And I think the music will come back, also slowly.

I think that maybe we even get the old spark back to Ben Horne's room too. Ben's and Jerry's first scene felt very off and very stale. Even the whole room was somehow "empty" from feelings. But maybe, as the show progresses, Ben and Jerry also slowly start to get the old spark back.

So in a sense, if this is how it goes, the musicless scenes will be effective in retrospect. But I would lie if I'd say I understood this from the get go and enjoyed the silent moments. And I doubt I will ever appreciate the dull moments even if this theory becomes the truth and the early scenes get a new context. Dull is still dull, no matter how much context you can give to it.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby TheGum » Mon May 22, 2017 2:40 pm

I think that maybe we even get the old spark back to Ben Horne's room too. Ben's and Jerry's first scene felt very off and very stale. Even the whole room was somehow "empty" from feelings. But maybe, as the show progresses, Ben and Jerry also slowly start to get the old spark back.


I agree with you here. Other than Ben's little aside- "anyway, she's married." Which I got a smile out of, it was stale, but again I can't help but see this as intentional given how clearly intended everything else was.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby chromereflectsimage » Mon May 22, 2017 2:44 pm

lotjx2 wrote:Was that Donna or Audrey flirting with James and the other dude at the end of episode 2?

The girl next to Shelly? No, that was Jessica Szohr as 'Renee'
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby dronerstone » Mon May 22, 2017 2:57 pm

Cera -> awesome.

And yup, I also believe it'll lead to Sarah "xamining" Bad Coop and seeing BOB, however they choose to pull that off.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Cstar84 » Mon May 22, 2017 2:59 pm

N. Needleman wrote:I thought Chrysta Bell was mostly fine, but I don't know whether Lynch is directing her to move that way or it's her (I think it's probably both). I did think the moment of the guys watching her walk was typical Lynch, but I do hope they show Preston as very competent soon.

The ending scene with Albert and Cole was intense - I'd like more details on Jeffries' involvement, where he's been, etc. I still think we may see Bowie. And the interrogation was spine-tingling.

I adored Wally and everything with the Twin Peaks PD. Diff'rent strokes. I also thought the Take Five scene with Sonny Jim was magical. Lynch seemed to love watching the kid get more and more delighted.


Agreed about the Sonny Jim stuff. Surprised some found it tedious. I found it a pure expression of something we rarely (perhaps never previously) get in Lynch's work: pure discovery and joy. I thought that whole sequence was pure magic.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby counterpaul » Mon May 22, 2017 3:00 pm

arfredo wrote:Well, I don't think that one extremely old, possibly senile waiter; or a concussed, shocked girl who has just been in an accident and can not fully understand their surroundings are comparable to the several dozens of people in their right minds who interact with "Dougie", including a lover, a friend, a wife and a son, and who accept his complete blankness as just a quirky little weirdness. And in the case of the people who know him, his sudden change of built, clothes and hair.


Jade noticed. "I think you might have had a little stroke or something," indeed! She just didn't want to get involved.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby bastia » Mon May 22, 2017 3:10 pm

Hello guys.

In the beginning i thought Coop was "ill" cause of the 25 years spent in the lodge. But then i re watched and I've seen that in the lodge he's "fine" (fine is a euphemism. I know.). I mean, he was totally able to interact and understand. He also talked, as if he was the old Coop.

So i found this really strange. Why when in earth is not sane anymore? Only the shock of the "trip"? The new(old) dimension?
Or maybe it's because bad Coop has his "brain and experience" there on earth? Maybe that's a side effect of the "trick" bad Coop used.

What do you think?
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Venus » Mon May 22, 2017 3:14 pm

Ross wrote:I think my biggest problem with the new show is the disconnect. Which I wasn't expecting. One thing about the original show that made me love it so much was the emotional connection. To the characters, town, music. Even in the second half of season 2 when the storyline wasn't as strong, I still loved it because the characters were so endearing, and the music so memorable. Even the more serious FWWM had Laura at its emotional center. But the new show is so stylized and unnatural, and with no music, that I loose that emotional component. Even with our original characters, Lynch has them deliver their lines in such stilted manner that it takes away from caring about them. On top of that playing Lucy even more broadly than she was before. I don't hate it, but I hate that I don't love it.


Yes these are my sentiments exactly Ross. Whether it picks up later on and recovers some of that I don't know, but I can only judge on what I've seen so far and I believe there has been a blatant disregard for the legacy that they created. Now some may say, that is the writers choice, but however anyone looks at it they did have a responsibility to at least consider those who loved that world they created and were thankful for it as it was. Even though what I have watched has stayed in the back of my mind in a Kubrick way and I am intrigued about some of it and do want to see where it goes, I am actually feeling very sad and I really don't want to feel that way about it. I can only speak from my own personal viewpoint and nobody elses, but at the moment I feel they have let me down. But I will continue to watch and see how things unfold.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby dronerstone » Mon May 22, 2017 3:27 pm

bastia wrote:Hello guys.

In the beginning i thought Coop was "ill" cause of the 25 years spent in the lodge. But then i re watched and I've seen that in the lodge he's "fine" (fine is a euphemism. I know.). I mean, he was totally able to interact and understand. He also talked, as if he was the old Coop.

So i found this really strange. Why when in earth is not sane anymore? Only the shock of the "trip"? The new(old) dimension?
Or maybe it's because bad Coop has his "brain and experience" there on earth? Maybe that's a side effect of the "trick" bad Coop used.

What do you think?


I understood it that way: when Bad and Good Coop are in THIS world at the SAME time, the Good Cooper can not be "complete" and therefore ends up a vegetable.
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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Esselgee » Mon May 22, 2017 3:30 pm

I could see season 2 Leo and DougieCoop having a great time together.


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Re: Parts 3 + 4 (Spoilers)

Postby Valaquen » Mon May 22, 2017 3:32 pm

bastia wrote:Hello guys.

In the beginning i thought Coop was "ill" cause of the 25 years spent in the lodge. But then i re watched and I've seen that in the lodge he's "fine" (fine is a euphemism. I know.). I mean, he was totally able to interact and understand. He also talked, as if he was the old Coop.

So i found this really strange. Why when in earth is not sane anymore? Only the shock of the "trip"? The new(old) dimension?
Or maybe it's because bad Coop has his "brain and experience" there on earth? Maybe that's a side effect of the "trick" bad Coop used.

What do you think?


In the Lodge time isn't linear and Coop finds himself transported from one place to another with no logic behind it. Adjusting to linear time, direction and a whole new world is probably pretty disorientating. Recall Major Briggs being messed up after his return from one of the Lodges in season 2; increase that by a factor of 25 years in Pandemonium.

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