Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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kornishpyxee
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby kornishpyxee » Mon May 22, 2017 6:13 am

MoondogJR wrote:
Soolsma wrote:Anybody else had the thought that William Hastings (or Bill the principal, played by Matthew Lillard, who did an incredible job I might add) might have been temporarily possessed by or with help from BOB?


That would be my guess as well!


Me too--I think he may be our new Leland.

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StealThisCorn
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby StealThisCorn » Mon May 22, 2017 6:13 am

Some more questions/observations after rewatching Parts 1 and 2. Let's dive into specifics, people.

I guess we'll have to keep an eye out for the numbers 4-3-0 and a "Richard" and "Linda".

So it seems like Bill Hastings has some kind of memory loss the night of the murder, but he also dreamt he went to Ruth the Librarian’s apartment. Yet his prints were physically found at the scene. Were they planted by Bad Dale or is there something paranormal going on like a form of possession? Or was Bill Hastings totally set up by his wife Phyllis, the lawyer George AND Bad Dale? Or did he actually do it? Why was Ruth killed and her head placed in the bed with an unidentified dead male body?

Mr. Todd in Las Vegas feels very much like Mr. Roque from Mulholand Dr to me. Is it Bad Dale who makes Todd “do these things” or someone worse?

I do find myself wondering though - why can Cooper “go out now” in particular? Like what is it about this time which makes Bad Dale suddenly have to return? In the original series, it was clear the 25 years line referred to Cooper's first dream when he was an old man and it was 25 years later. Now it's being sort of retconned to imply something grander and I'm still not sure why there are these rules about when the doppelganger has to return and the Good Dale can go out, etc.

A little disappointed Sheryl Lee didn’t deliver that line, “but sometimes my arms bend back” with the same disturbing pained expression she did in Cooper’s dream from Episode 2. Lost some of its gravitas this way.

What do you think Lynch was trying to convey there with Laura peeling open her face to reveal cold white light underneath like that? That the identities of characters in the Red Room are just interchangeable masks? Or that underneath the dead Laura is a luminous immortal soul?

After everything we’ve already seen Laura put through, it was pretty upsetting to see her screaming in agony as she gets sucked up and away like that. Was that a result of whatever plan Bad Dale has put in motion to avoid “getting pulled back in” or the Lodge punishing her for revealing something she wasn’t supposed to?

Any theories on the significance of the Ace of Spades with the black insect-like head?

Bad Dale seems to start doubting that he’s talking to the real Philip Jeffries anymore, but the implication is that they’ve been working on something together in secret. What could that be and why? But I admit I was intrigued when the voice on the phone said, “You’re going back in tomorrow and I will be with Bob again.” Still holding my breath for some startling insert footage of Silva composited in somewhere.

Why does the Arm repeat “Bob” three times before telling Cooper to go now? Also, Leland is in a chair just like Cooper. And he doesn’t have the milky white eyes of the doppelganger. Guess Cooper has to find Laura now.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby speedbeatz » Mon May 22, 2017 6:14 am

Something I just remembered that's bothering me: what was up with the woman (name escapes me) in the New York scenes?
The first scene seemed to heavily indicate that she had an ulterior motive in regards to getting into the room - spying on the keypad code, being persistent about coming back the next day, etc. Was she willing to go very far to keep her cover, and planned on doing something after having sex with the guy, or was the earlier stuff just a red herring?
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Josh » Mon May 22, 2017 6:17 am

Soolsma wrote:Anybody else had the thought that William Hastings (or Bill the principal, played by Matthew Lillard, who did an incredible job I might add) might have been temporarily possessed by or with help from BOB?


Agree 100% re: Lillard's performance.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby arfredo » Mon May 22, 2017 6:24 am

I've completely loved these two episodes. It's not the good old Twin Peaks, but that's understandable. This is, and (I think) it's gonna be a different animal, because neither Lynch nor tv itself are the same than 25 years ago (in no small part because of the actual existence of the original Twin Peaks). For one, nowadays soap-operas are a non-factor on tv, so it makes perfect sense to me for them to eschew that angle.

I don't feel the Inland Empire vibe that some people are feeling in these two episodes. And I'm happy for it, because IE is probably the only Lynch film that I can't stand. The feel has much more to do with Eraserhead, Lost Highway and Mulholland Dr (and obviously Twin Peaks) that IE.

A couple of ramdom thoughts:

The "TOP SECRET" "I'm so curious now, you're driving me crazy" exchange between Sam and Tracey in the NY scene feels to me like a mirror image of Lil's clue dance in FWWM. There, Lynch mocked people who wanted to decypher all TP through smalls clues. Here he mocks those who want to know spoilers before the thing itself airs. Even the "couldn't tell, wouldn't tell" that Sam says about the previous worker mirrors to me the "couldn't tell" "couldn't or wouldn't?" exchange between Desmond and Stanley about the blue rose in FWWM.

Two small coffee-related things. I loooved the scene where Bad Cooper drinks coffee; and the cups used by the Buckhorn Police Department are the same kind as those used in Mulholland Dr. Winkie's and by Diane at her place (minus the Buckhorn Police logo, obviously).

The "phone" conversation with (the fake?) Philip Jeffries gives me hope that Bowie were able to record at least a few audio lines to be used during the series (and that they dedicate an episode to his memory, as they made with Coulson and Silva in this episode).
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Metamorphia » Mon May 22, 2017 6:27 am

Pöllö wrote:
Metamorphia wrote:
Pöllö wrote:I'm on the same boat. I love Lynch and Lynchian, but there are many forms of it and I personally don't really like Eraserhead - this was full of it.

I just don't get to point of completely revamping Twin Peaks, you're taking Twin Peaks out of Twin Peaks. He should've just made a new movie if he was in the mood for something different.


Do you blame Mark Frost too given he co-wrote it?

I'm not seeing any traces of Frost.


I know, which makes it interesting.

Frost must have been happy enough to go ahead with this - it raises interesting questions.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby N. Needleman » Mon May 22, 2017 6:42 am

I think it's very possible the more Frost-esque narrative drive will emerge soon enough, with Cooper on the move.
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kornishpyxee
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby kornishpyxee » Mon May 22, 2017 6:46 am

Hester Prynne wrote:I don't think Bad Coop was actually talking with Jeffries. He thought he was at first, but then realizes it's someone else but doesn't know who. That's what I took away from the scene, but may have interpreted it wrong.


I thought it might have been MIKE, since he talked about wanting to be with BOB again.

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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby mtwentz » Mon May 22, 2017 6:48 am

N. Needleman wrote:I think it's very possible the more Frost-esque narrative drive will emerge soon enough, with Cooper on the move.


What I loved about these first four parts is that, despite its balls ass weirdness, there was a coherent narrative.

BTW N. Needleman you were right I was overthinking the opening theme song.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Mallard » Mon May 22, 2017 6:49 am

N. Needleman wrote:I think it's very possible the more Frost-esque narrative drive will emerge soon enough, with Cooper on the move.


I still think the entity that emerged from the box is supposed to be the same type of being(?) Nixon showed Jackie Gleason in TSHOTP.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Fashion Suicide » Mon May 22, 2017 6:52 am

I generally loved the whole thing. There was a couple of the black lodge scenes where i felt it was a bit too ... literal. I also felt that way, and still do sometimes, about a couple of the scenes in FWWM. The way the black lodge is portrayed in the series is just so masterful and scary. I didn't find it scary this time around. Anyway, it is what it is. Another thing i couldn't stand was the ending. I got a kind of "american pie reunion"-vibe from it. And i also don't care for Chromatics or their music at all. I miss Angelo's touch, and i really, really hope that his music will be more and more evident when we'll see more of Twin Peaks, the town. Upon re-watching, i've wrapped my head around it though and now i'm just waiting with part 3 and 4 until tonight, since it's beautiful sunshine outside.

Generally really loved it though. Just wanted to share my thoughts. :)
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Mon May 22, 2017 6:54 am

Something I'm still trying to decide is if Bob makes dopplegangers of people that he can control and are somehow a part of him? Or are the dopples just dark versions of the original that have more autonomy over themselves and decide whether to work with Bob?

Leland seemed possessed by Bob, not merely a doppleganger. But in the Lodge there seemed to be two.

Trying to understand the metaphysics here.

And now we know there can be more than one doppleganger.
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sylviecerise
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby sylviecerise » Mon May 22, 2017 7:00 am

Fashion Suicide wrote:I generally loved the whole thing. There was a couple of the black lodge scenes where i felt it was a bit too ... literal. I also felt that way, and still do sometimes, about a couple of the scenes in FWWM. The way the black lodge is portrayed in the series is just so masterful and scary. I didn't find it scary this time around.


This was the biggest difference for me. Even though I felt on edge the entire time, nothing terrified me. Maybe it's because of the explicit violence. Though, I did still have many nightmares loosely about where the show is going (and also woke up with my left arm numb)
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Mallard
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Mallard » Mon May 22, 2017 7:02 am

sylviecerise wrote:
Fashion Suicide wrote:I generally loved the whole thing. There was a couple of the black lodge scenes where i felt it was a bit too ... literal. I also felt that way, and still do sometimes, about a couple of the scenes in FWWM. The way the black lodge is portrayed in the series is just so masterful and scary. I didn't find it scary this time around.


This was the biggest difference for me. Even though I felt on edge the entire time, nothing terrified me. Maybe it's because of the explicit violence. Though, I did still have many nightmares loosely about where the show is going (and also woke up with my left arm numb)


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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby baxter » Mon May 22, 2017 7:04 am

Re the Frost influence: Didn't they spend ages writing the first two hours? So we have to assume that Frost is all over it.

Re the literal nature of the lodge scenes: maybe this is inevitable. In the S2 finale, it was being written on the fly without really rationalising it. They have now had time to explore these concepts in more detail, which means that it will feel more direct somehow.

I agree that it certainly isn't Inland Empire. It is considerably more coherent.

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