Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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LostInTheMovies
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby LostInTheMovies » Tue May 23, 2017 9:21 am

Here Comes That Bob wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote:. Quick thoughts on Part 1 & 2 are that it was almost more like Mulholland Drive than Twin Peaks with all the cross-cutting between enigmatic storylines and characters, some of whom we only see once. I didn't quite expect Frost to be onboard with this approach. In most ways, this project is looking *very* much like a late Lynch work, not a return to his earlier mode.



I agree, that the storyline presentation is very much like late Lynch, however I'm sensing some strong Eraserhead vibes in terms of surreal scenes and sound design, more so than any other of his work.


Good point. That said, a lot of the visuals, and the general feel, hew closer to his digital shorts than *either* Eraserhead or the late features (even including Inland Empire). His use of digital effects feels very close to the spirit he brings to his animation vs. anything he's done in live action before.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby qbin2001 » Tue May 23, 2017 9:24 am

ThumbsUp wrote:- Anyone notice the flashlight flickering when investigators were looking in the trunk of Hastings' car? Flickering light or electricity reference to the Lodge spirits? What was that anyway, a piece of flesh or something someone threw up?


I think it was a wink from David refering to the original pilot episode and flickering light in the morgue.
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mtwentz
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby mtwentz » Tue May 23, 2017 9:30 am

LostInTheMovies wrote:
mtwentz wrote:On this thread we are avoiding Parts 3 & 4 spoilers, but you can post 3 & 4 threads.


I guess my question is: will we still be avoiding them after next Sunday? (And also, for example, part 5 when it airs?) Will these threads remain a secure zone for fans who are slowly catching up with each part over the summer or, once app & TV viewers are in sync, will it be more like the boards for the old episodes?


I am not sure, because I am not an admin, but I personally am taking care not to post anything pertaining to 3 and 4 on the 1 and 2 thread, so as to give a safe zone to those who have not yet seen 3 and 4 but would like to discuss 1 and 2. But the policy, as written, is not completely clear on that point. There will be people who are behind the 8 ball throughout the series, I imagine, even after all episodes have aired.

Edit: At a certain point, it probably becomes very difficult to maintain an episode by episode spoiler policy, as many of us will forget which episode we saw a certain scene in.
Last edited by mtwentz on Tue May 23, 2017 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rollie
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby rollie » Tue May 23, 2017 9:33 am

So many thoughts! I certainly sit on the side of "yes it's not the same but do we want more the same, I was enthralled and I'm excited to go on this strange and wonderful adventure"

One small thing I liked (/intepreted) that haven't seen anyone else mention is in the scene with Sarah Palmer watching TV. The TV show is reflected in the mirror behind her so once again we're seeing Sarah Palmer with the reflection of a predator in the mirror, seemed like a nice callback to the pilot (and also the famous story of how BOB came to be)
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Coffee
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Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Coffee » Tue May 23, 2017 9:45 am

Loved the first three episodes (will be catching the 4th tonight).

To sum it in two words: Unfiltered Lynch.

One thing I would say, that I love it, however I do expect things to make sense as we progress. I'm viewing the first three episodes as the equivalent of the first 5-10 minutes of a film. So I hope that as we get to the midpoint of the season, we should see things begin to tie together and make some sense. I'm hoping there's nothing that's been thrown in offhand which won't make sense later on...

Having said that, I'm also expecting that as we finally get some resolution to the central story arcs, we'll probably get a crazy batshit finale which will send us all over the edge!
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Rami Airola » Tue May 23, 2017 9:47 am

I've watched the scene with James now several times. It's great!
James Marshall acts really well there. It was pretty much the first time these two episodes gave real dramatic connection to the people. It feels REALLY grounded there.

I wonder if the other guy is James' kid.
Maybe he is James' and Donna's son.

I wonder if the motorcycle accident involved Donna. I wonder if she died in that accident.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Hockey Mask » Tue May 23, 2017 9:48 am

Love opening with the 'I'll see you again in 25 years' flashback. I was hoping for it and there it was!
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mtwentz
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby mtwentz » Tue May 23, 2017 9:49 am

Coffee wrote:Loved the first three episodes (will be catching the 4th tonight).

To sum it in two words: Unfiltered Lynch.

One thing I would say, that I love it, however I do expect things to make sense as we progress. I'm viewing the first three episodes as the equivalent of the first 5-10 minutes of a film. So I hope that as we get to the midpoint of the season, we should see things begin to tie together and make some sense. I'm hoping there's nothing that's been thrown in offhand which won't make sense later on...

Having said that, I'm also expecting that as we finally get some resolution to the central story arcs, we'll probably get a crazy batshit finale which will send us all over the edge!


I guess now is as good a time as any to discuss the ending...

For maximum enjoyment, we've all got to make peace with the fact we may not have a Blue Velvet/Wild At Heart style happy ending. I mean, if Lynch really wants to mess with us, we may be right back where we started the season :-).

I am not saying that is going to happen, just that the building of any expectations toward this new Lynch masterpiece is not a good idea.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby N. Needleman » Tue May 23, 2017 10:15 am

I've been trying to size a decently-large Wally avatar all day. Damn you, Hockey Mask!
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Mairzy
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Mairzy » Tue May 23, 2017 10:18 am

Normonaut wrote:Is nobody talking about the "clues" given by the giant at the very beginning? Seems like it should be important, although we don't have much to go on.


Is everything confined to this thread? For example could there be a seperate thread allowed about the Giant's Clues or The New Titles or theories etc...
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Ideanuk
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Ideanuk » Tue May 23, 2017 10:19 am

First time poster, long time lurker.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but in the scene with Sarah Palmer I'm almost certain that in the mirror on the left someone can be seen standing just out of shot. You can see their hand. I don't think this is an error. Too much of a coincidence given that Frank Silva was caught in the mirror in the Pilot of the original series.

As I've said, maybe this has already been discussed, in which case I'd love to hear your thoughts ...

Loving the new Season.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Cappy » Tue May 23, 2017 10:25 am

Ideanuk wrote:First time poster, long time lurker.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but in the scene with Sarah Palmer I'm almost certain that in the mirror on the left someone can be seen standing just out of shot. You can see their hand. I don't think this is an error. Too much of a coincidence given that Frank Silva was caught in the mirror in the Pilot of the original series.

As I've said, maybe this has already been discussed, in which case I'd love to hear your thoughts ...

Loving the new Season.


I did not notice the hand, but I was certainly looking to see someone reflected in the mirror. That shot of Sara on the couch was a nice call-back to the final scene of the pilot. I just took the reflection of TV animal violence to be symbolic of BOB.

Also, Jacoby buying shovels. What is he digging up? Another good reference to the pilot, where he digs up the half-heart necklace.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby sycamore » Tue May 23, 2017 10:35 am

carel struycken (the giant / '???????') gave an interview in 2016 saying, "I didn’t get to read the script, and hardly any lines were written down for my four scenes. I have less screen time than I had twenty-five years ago, but I’m important for the development of the story." understanding the giant's clues will be important. here's a first stab at this ...

the giant: listen to the sounds. it is in our house now.
cooper: it is?
the giant: it all cannot be said aloud now. remember 430. richard and linda. two birds with one stone.
cooper: i understand.
the giant: you are far away.

listen to the sounds. - does anyone have the technology to play these sounds backwards and could try to identify them? other sounds in the waiting room / lodge occur backwards (like laura's footsteps when she's walking).

it is in our house now. - my first thought is the the white lodge is becoming infected with the disease of the black lodge. but that's maybe too obvious ... and nothing about what the giant says is very obvious.

remember 430 (four three zero). - there i a reference to these numbers hidden in some seemingly benign chatter:
hawk: she said something is missing and it has to do with agent cooper.
lucy: but agent cooper is missing and he hasn't been seen or heard from since before wally was born and wally's 24 years old.
andy: he was born on the same day as marlon brando.
lucy: andy wanted to name him marlon and we haven't even gotten a christmas card from agent cooper.
andy: he hasn't even seen wally.
this is a story that andy and lucy probably would have told a thousand times over and this likely isn't new information about wally's birthday to hawk. however, it might be important for the audience to know this info. andy & lucy's son was born on april 3rd ... 4/3/1990 ... 4/3/0) ... but in the actual timeline, how could lucy & andy's son be born on april 3rd 1990, when lucy announced she was pregnant in season 1, episode 7 which takes place on march 2nd, 1989? something's off here. i don't know what. but this IS a reference to 430. the correct reference? we'll find out later ...

richard and linda. - the only previous character with a name of richard is dick tremayne, lucy's other boyfriend. ian buchanan is not on the cast list for season 3, so i guess these would be new characters.

two birds with one stone. - i have no idea.

you are far away. - the only black and white scene might indicate this takes place outside the supernatural areas we already know about (waiting room, black lodge, white lodge) and the fact that carel struycken's character name in the credits is seven question marks ("???????") might indicate that this character has also 'evolved' in some way.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Rami Airola » Tue May 23, 2017 10:40 am

sycamore wrote:remember 430 (four three zero). - there i a reference to these numbers hidden in some seemingly benign chatter:


I think it refers to time.
4:30.

Like 253 was too. It ended up being 2:53.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Postby Chester Desmond » Tue May 23, 2017 10:47 am

So this is a reply to BOB1 and anyone else like myself who has issues with "The Return"...

For those of you enjoying The Return so far, that's great I am happy for you, this isn't meant for you and isn't an insult to daddy Lynch.

I have rewatched all 4 parts twice now, 3 views in total, and as I have said before the production quality is just not there in my opinion. I have stated many times in a few different threads what I don't like, and there is plenty of it, but here's what my expectation was, sorta, and what I wanted.

Before someone chimes in and tries to group me in with the nostalgia crowd, that ain't me. I love the darker elements of Twin Peaks the most, for me Fire Walk With Me is my favorite film.


I was hoping for the production quality akin to 2012s "Crazy Clown Time" video, and it was shot on video not film

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caWXt9lCVrc

For me, that is just visually amazing and creative.

I was thinking we'd get for a mix of this, Fire Walk With Me and Inland Empire. In feel too.

BOB1 wrote:There are so many things you have been writing about... and so many I might write about. But I do want to keep my first post here short and ask a very particular question to all of you who liked it.

Cause I didn't like it and I think I know why: there has not so far appeared one single character that I would care about. (I mean, yeah of course there were some nice ones, like Hawk, but their appearances were very brief - I might potentially start to care about them but two hours have passed and they haven't actually done anything yet). Conclusion: I don't see ANY human drama there. We can name particular things we like and things we don't, the acting, the visuals, the mood, the (lack of) music, the amount of Lynch in Lynch etc.etc. But my question is: do YOU see the human drama there? Do you find a character that makes you care (not because of sentiments but because what you actually saw last night)? My answers are: no and no. And I'm very curious what some of you might say about it... hope someone will :wink:



--------------------------------

p.s.

OK, I shouldn't write more at this moment but later I will NEVER find these quotes again so here we go:

Pöllö wrote:This is not Mulholland Drive. This is a straight up mesh of Eraserhead and Inland Empire.

While I do see quite a lot of Mulholland Drive, I absolutely agree. As far as inspirations and associations are concerned it is for me:
40% Inland Empire (alas, without a character like Laura Dern's)
30% Eraserhead
15% Mulholland Drive
10 % Twin Peaks (the last scene)
5% Lost Highway (the guy who remembers things his own way...)

mlsstwrt wrote:Having slept on it I feel even more disappointed than I did last night. (...) The whole thing felt to me like it didn't have a soul, it was just empty and flat. I was too confused last night but today I'm not going to equivocate and can say that I flat out hated it.

My best friend watched it with us... you sound just like him... he was devastated. As he was leaving, he said something like: "I thought I'd be able to die in peace after I'd have seen the come back of Twin Peaks. And now I can't even die properly!". It was hilarious and depressing at the same time.

Chester Desmond wrote:Lynch replaced him with an electric tree with a talking mango head...

We named it an Easter tree with a potato head. Whatever. I'm pretty sure that it's the worst thing Lynch has done since the European pilot ending. Nah, it's the worst ever.
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