Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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KillerBOB
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by KillerBOB »

lotjx2 wrote:
Oh Jesus...sorry. I forgot what section I was in there. I think the idea of them being naked in that scene. It made it more personal for some reason.
It's alright. I figured I'd run into a spoiler eventually. I don't
Know where on the internet I can go to avoid them completely... sigh.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

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StrangerDanger wrote:By the way, l'm not sure the pale horse is comfort for Sarah Palmer (unless l've overlooked something). Maybe she's comforted by the drugs, and so the horror of Leland sexually abusing their daughter is diminished to a mere mind residual: the pale horse.
Heh, hence I said an essay could probably be written on it. Didn't mean to diminish it to one simple emotion. But she sure does seem to find peace once that horse appears.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by Wonderful & Strange »

Bob feeds off the pleasures as well as suffering. So why shouldn't a lodge spirit like him attack a couple having sex? Makes perfect sense and I'm surprised Twin Peaks fans would even ask.
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KillerBOB
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

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Wonderful & Strange wrote:Bob feeds off the pleasures as well as suffering. So why shouldn't a lodge spirit like him attack a couple having sex? Makes perfect sense and I'm surprised Twin Peaks fans would even ask.
I'm almost scared to ask (because I've only watched the first two), but what makes you think that was Bob?
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by Wonderful & Strange »

KillerBOB wrote:
Wonderful & Strange wrote:Bob feeds off the pleasures as well as suffering. So why shouldn't a lodge spirit like him attack a couple having sex? Makes perfect sense and I'm surprised Twin Peaks fans would even ask.
I'm almost scared to ask (because I've only watched the first two), but what makes you think that was Bob?
Reread my post.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by garethw »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
StrangerDanger wrote:By the way, l'm not sure the pale horse is comfort for Sarah Palmer (unless l've overlooked something). Maybe she's comforted by the drugs, and so the horror of Leland sexually abusing their daughter is diminished to a mere mind residual: the pale horse.
Heh, hence I said an essay could probably be written on it. Didn't mean to diminish it to one simple emotion. But she sure does seem to find peace once that horse appears.
This exchange reminded me of a quote that I thought appeared somewhere in Twin Peaks cannon (maybe the Secret Diary?), something to the effect of "Woe be to those who behold the pale horse".

So I googled that phrase and discovered a Milton William Cooper, and his rambling work "Behold A Pale Horse". He seems to be a bit of a UFO conspiracy nut; can't decide if he influenced TP, or was influenced by it. Anyway, thought it was interesting, and may be of interest to others:

The man and his, uhhh, work.

Anyone familiar with it? It was new to me.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

garethw wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
StrangerDanger wrote:By the way, l'm not sure the pale horse is comfort for Sarah Palmer (unless l've overlooked something). Maybe she's comforted by the drugs, and so the horror of Leland sexually abusing their daughter is diminished to a mere mind residual: the pale horse.
Heh, hence I said an essay could probably be written on it. Didn't mean to diminish it to one simple emotion. But she sure does seem to find peace once that horse appears.
This exchange reminded me of a quote that I thought appeared somewhere in Twin Peaks cannon (maybe the Secret Diary?), something to the effect of "Woe be to those who behold the pale horse".

So I googled that phrase and discovered a Milton William Cooper, and his rambling work "Behold A Pale Horse". He seems to be a bit of a UFO conspiracy nut; can't decide if he influenced TP, or was influenced by it. Anyway, thought it was interesting, and may be of interest to others:

The man and his, uhhh, work.

Anyone familiar with it? It was new to me.
That quote is in the Log Lady intro for Episode 14! Scripted and shot by DKL.
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garethw
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by garethw »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
garethw wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Heh, hence I said an essay could probably be written on it. Didn't mean to diminish it to one simple emotion. But she sure does seem to find peace once that horse appears.
This exchange reminded me of a quote that I thought appeared somewhere in Twin Peaks cannon (maybe the Secret Diary?), something to the effect of "Woe be to those who behold the pale horse".

So I googled that phrase and discovered a Milton William Cooper, and his rambling work "Behold A Pale Horse". He seems to be a bit of a UFO conspiracy nut; can't decide if he influenced TP, or was influenced by it. Anyway, thought it was interesting, and may be of interest to others:

The man and his, uhhh, work.

Anyone familiar with it? It was new to me.
That quote is in the Log Lady intro for Episode 14! Scripted and shot by DKL.
*Facepalm*. I return my fan club card in shame.

Anyway, I thought it was a neat connection, given his name, the title of his loopy ramblings, and the fact that he was a UFO guy. Died in a hail of bullets with the law.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by counterpaul »

N. Needleman wrote:I never thought I'd hear someone claim that David Lynch's use of a white horse (or any symbology) "breaks continuity" in Twin Peaks.

This isn't Star Trek, it isn't even Lost. There are almost no definite symbols with definite, explicit purposes in Twin Peaks; so much is up for interpretation. The white horse can symbolize any number of things, and it does betide catastrophe for Cooper. That is not a "continuity error". Using a subjective symbol in a way not previously established just because you didn't think of it doesn't "break continuity".
Thank you! I really get confused when discussion of Twin Peaks drifts toward debates over sci-fi/fantasy style world-building issues. I can't remember who said it (it might have been Bob Engles at the USC thing), but someone quoted Lynch responding to the writers' questions about how the red room 'works'--"There are NO RULES in the red room!" It's just not how TP (or Lynch's work in general) functions.

His concerns are aesthetic, poetic, and emotional and his primary tool is pure intuition. When he talks about whether something is "correct," that is what he's talking about.

Now, that isn't to say there's nothing to discuss! I can imagine someone reacting to the above and saying, "Well, fuck it, then. It's all just random! What's there to discuss?!"

I profoundly disagree with anyone who would contend that Lynch's work is random. The trick to discussing it with any coherence is to approach it with the proper tools. The tools that work with meticulously built fantasy worlds or science fiction, etc. will only lead to dead ends and frustration. There's nothing inherently wrong with that mode of storytelling, if that's what floats your boat, but with Lynch it's just the wrong tool for the job!

Yes, Lynch loves to drop clues. But Lynchian clues do not serve the same purpose that clues do in, say, Doyle or Christie. They don't need to lead anywhere concrete. Clues, for Lynch, are about being primed to receive. Clues peak our interest and get our senses going, so when things happen, we're sensitive and vulnerable and they hit us extra hard. That's all they need to do, so it's not a flaw when the story contradicts a clue down the line--it's either irrelevant or it's about (and this is also one of Lynch's favorite themes) how life is messy and impossible to figure out.

So, what we have in the first couple of hours of TPTR is mostly the planting of clues. We're being primed. It's not so much world-building as it is tone-building. And it's important.

The story here is of a great man who has fallen and must be redeemed. Things are amiss. They're amiss because Dale Cooper is out in the world doing cruel, unspeakable things. An important foundational premise of Twin Peaks is that internal horror leaks out into the surrounding environment. Coop's struggle is not his alone because he's out in the world. This, to me, speaking poetically, is a profound truth.

So every scene, as we're reintroduced to the series, carries a heavy weight. A somber quietude. A sense of dis-ease. Something's wrong. Something is missing.

And yet there is the glorious scene in the Road House. It is not accidental that Lynch placed this scene at the end of the first two hours. Here is a scene of life continuing on--of simple, human-sized, life. We get hints at drama, there's a definite bittersweetness to it, but it is feee of that weight. This is Lynch telling us that, yes, something important is very wrong, but there is also life happening. Don't forget. There is music, and there are love stories, and for 25 years the folks in Twin Peaks have continued to live lives. And we'll meet them. We'll get there.

But, right now, we are far away. Listen to the sounds.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

garethw wrote:*Facepalm*. I return my fan club card in shame.

Anyway, I thought it was a neat connection, given his name, the title of his loopy ramblings, and the fact that he was a UFO guy. Died in a hail of bullets with the law.
Heh, happens to the best of us. And the Log Lady intros by their nature do tend to sort of fade into the wallpaper like something that's always been there, but you can't quite place/remember.

This "Cooper" poet certainly seems like the kinda guy I could see Mark writing about in The Final Dossier.
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asselta
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by asselta »

Sarah Palmer saw white horse two times. After first time, Laura was killed. After second, Maddy.
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by MasterMastermind »

I always interpreted the horse as an omen of doom Sarah was susceptible to see because of her gift. Cooper is similarly gifted, so I wasn't too taken aback by him seeing it.
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KillerBOB
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by KillerBOB »

garethw wrote:Twin Peaks cannon
Image

:mrgreen:
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by dud »

i think it's notable that the title sequence ends with the floor of the red room, and directly after that the first scene begins with the floor of this new room that the giant (or ????????) and coop are sitting in. i think that was a deliberate choice made to emphasize that this is most definitely NOT the red room / black lodge, but some other supernatural plane (white lodge?)
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Re: Parts 1 + 2 (Spoilers)

Post by speedbeatz »

comeongethappy wrote:Jake Wardle is credited as 'Freddie Sykes' so he's probably just a young friend for James.
Since nobody else seems to have pointed this out: Frederick Sykes is the name of the one-armed man in the 1993 movie remake of The Fugitive. Probably just another shout-out with no deeper meaning, but the single green glove does make me curious.
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