Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

[Coffee]

One thing I noticed is that there's not many close up shots of the actors. Instead Lynch is going for more mid-shots... I wonder if that is having an effect on some people empathising with the characters?

[anewberry]

okay, I haven't read everything you guys wrote about...but has anyone of you noticed that Jacques Renaud is still the bartender at the Roadhouse at the end of part2? Anyways, I've only watched part 1&2 and I have to say that I am amazed! Can't wait to delve into its following parts

[boske]

Also, the box in NYC has that pipe-like opening that I think is purposely made to look like a coffee cup. Could that be the reference to a "coffee cup flying out of a window" that we heard Mark Frost referring to? Looking at it that way, it makes it appear as if one stares at a cup to "see" something, a symbol for divination that black coffee has been used for in some parts of the world. Very deep and multi-layered again.

[yaxomoxay]

I watched episodes 1,2, and 4 only once, and I watched ep 3 twice.

Does anyone think that the evil entity that killed the two kids in NY is Laura?
She is dragged off the Lodge in quite a scary way, and since sexual relationships are a big component of her life, traumas, and death the kids having sexual experiences could've triggered the deadly attack.


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[mtwentz]

okay, I haven't read everything you guys wrote about...but has anyone of you noticed that Jacques Renaud is still the bartender at the Roadhouse at the end of part2? Anyways, I've only watched part 1&2 and I have to say that I am amazed! Can't wait to delve into its following parts

Look at the closing credits- he is not Jacques (who was killed in S1) but apparently another Renault brother.

[TheGum]

Can I just ask the question no one is asking here...what did Cooper eat in that lodge for 25 years!?

[Soolsma]

[wxray]

One thing I noticed is that there's not many close up shots of the actors. Instead Lynch is going for more mid-shots... I wonder if that is having an effect on some people empathising with the characters?

But the ones there are effective.

Consider the close ups of Otis, and his blinking eyes, juxtaposed with Bad Coop, and his unblinking eyes of coal.

[Coffee]

Another thing I've been thinking about...

When Lynch/Frost created Twin Peaks, soap operas where the "in" thing. S1/S2 went great lengths to lampoon, subvert and include the trappings of those soap operas.

Well the television landscape has altered and "long form storytelling" has replaced the soap as the favoured form of scripted television with the masses.

This change is reflected in the new show.

The soap opera trappings are gone. Lynch/Frost have completely altered the chassis of the show.

I could see them going great lengths to lampoon, subvert and include the trappings of modern "long form storytelling".

Breaking Bad S1 felt like it moved at a snails pace. BB didn't take hold until S3 as that's when the shows storytelling began to develop things and demonstrate what the show was about -- word of mouth spread and the showings streaming numbers went through the roof.

I'd say TPS3 is moving at a quarter of the speed of BBS1! So Lynch/Frost are definitely having fun with genre and our expectations of it.

Just don't go into the new show and expect the soap elements anymore.

In fact I think one scene in Part 4 lampooned the soap elements of S1/2.

[douglasb]

okay, I haven't read everything you guys wrote about...but has anyone of you noticed that Jacques Renaud is still the bartender at the Roadhouse at the end of part2? Anyways, I've only watched part 1&2 and I have to say that I am amazed! Can't wait to delve into its following parts

Actually, about 25% of this thread is people saying "Apologies if this has been mentioned but did anyone notice Jacques..."

[MoondogJR]

One thing I noticed is that there's not many close up shots of the actors. Instead Lynch is going for more mid-shots... I wonder if that is having an effect on some people empathising with the characters?

But the ones there are effective.

Consider the close ups of Otis, and his blinking eyes, juxtaposed with Bad Coop, and his unblinking eyes of coal.

Or the close up of the distressed William Hastings in jail!

[indyit]

I'm going to join in with the chorus of apologies for not reading everything and posting/asking something anyways.

What's the consensus (so far) on what/who the NYC box monster was?

I think the two major candidates are The Arm's doppelganger (although the monster looked female) or possibly Laura.

Laura (because she went flying before Cooper fell through the floor), Arm's doppelganger because he was there and looked like he caused the floor to drop in the first place.

The left field candidate I wanna put out there - the venus de milo like statue? I have to rewatch the episode but I vaguely recall Cooper standing in the corridor where the statue was before the floor gave in. I also remember random shots of the statue with ominous sounds. If this turns out to be right I can see people scoffing at it - but I think it could be cool! (It's a statue because it's too much even for the other spirits... so they keep her in that form or something.)

[RainingPostToasties]

What's the consensus (so far) on what/who the NYC box monster was?

I think the two major candidates are The Arm's doppelganger (although the monster looked female) or possibly Laura.

Laura (because she went flying before Cooper fell through the floor), Arm's doppelganger because he was there and looked like he caused the floor to drop in the first place.

The left field candidate I wanna put out there - the venus de milo like statue? I have to rewatch the episode but I vaguely recall Cooper standing in the corridor where the statue was before the floor gave in. I also remember random shots of the statue with ominous sounds. If this turns out to be right I can see people scoffing at it - but I think it could be cool! (It's a statue because it's too much even for the other spirits... so they keep her in that form or something.)

No consensus really, but I feel like it's a creature that comes out of the Black Lodge to enforce the rule that one cannot leave until their doppelganger returns, as the Arm said—it shows up just moments after the good Cooper was fleetingly coexisting in the real world with the bad Cooper. Why it broke out of the glass and attacked the lovers is hard to reconcile, though.

As for the statue, that's an interesting theory, but my understanding was that the Arm's doppelganger was hiding inside/behind it and that was the extent of its purpose in that scene.

[LateReg]

I never thought I'd hear someone claim that David Lynch's use of a white horse (or any symbology) "breaks continuity" in Twin Peaks.

This isn't Star Trek, it isn't even Lost. There are almost no definite symbols with definite, explicit purposes in Twin Peaks; so much is up for interpretation. The white horse can symbolize any number of things, and it does betide catastrophe for Cooper. That is not a "continuity error". Using a subjective symbol in a way not previously established just because you didn't think of it doesn't "break continuity".

Thank you! I really get confused when discussion of Twin Peaks drifts toward debates over sci-fi/fantasy style world-building issues. I can't remember who said it (it might have been Bob Engles at the USC thing), but someone quoted Lynch responding to the writers' questions about how the red room 'works'--"There are NO RULES in the red room!" It's just not how TP (or Lynch's work in general) functions.

His concerns are aesthetic, poetic, and emotional and his primary tool is pure intuition. When he talks about whether something is "correct," that is what he's talking about.

Now, that isn't to say there's nothing to discuss! I can imagine someone reacting to the above and saying, "Well, fuck it, then. It's all just random! What's there to discuss?!"

I profoundly disagree with anyone who would contend that Lynch's work is random. The trick to discussing it with any coherence is to approach it with the proper tools. The tools that work with meticulously built fantasy worlds or science fiction, etc. will only lead to dead ends and frustration. There's nothing inherently wrong with that mode of storytelling, if that's what floats your boat, but with Lynch it's just the wrong tool for the job!

Yes, Lynch loves to drop clues. But Lynchian clues do not serve the same purpose that clues do in, say, Doyle or Christie. They don't need to lead anywhere concrete. Clues, for Lynch, are about being primed to receive. Clues peak our interest and get our senses going, so when things happen, we're sensitive and vulnerable and they hit us extra hard. That's all they need to do, so it's not a flaw when the story contradicts a clue down the line--it's either irrelevant or it's about (and this is also one of Lynch's favorite themes) how life is messy and impossible to figure out.

So, what we have in the first couple of hours of TPTR is mostly the planting of clues. We're being primed. It's not so much world-building as it is tone-building. And it's important.

The story here is of a great man who has fallen and must be redeemed. Things are amiss. They're amiss because Dale Cooper is out in the world doing cruel, unspeakable things. An important foundational premise of Twin Peaks is that internal horror leaks out into the surrounding environment. Coop's struggle is not his alone because he's out in the world. This, to me, speaking poetically, is a profound truth.

So every scene, as we're reintroduced to the series, carries a heavy weight. A somber quietude. A sense of dis-ease. Something's wrong. Something is missing.

And yet there is the glorious scene in the Road House. It is not accidental that Lynch placed this scene at the end of the first two hours. Here is a scene of life continuing on--of simple, human-sized, life. We get hints at drama, there's a definite bittersweetness to it, but it is feee of that weight. This is Lynch telling us that, yes, something important is very wrong, but there is also life happening. Don't forget. There is music, and there are love stories, and for 25 years the folks in Twin Peaks have continued to live lives. And we'll meet them. We'll get there.

But, right now, we are far away. Listen to the sounds.

Phenomenal post! Thank you.

[Taperecorder]

I am wondering why Lynch chose to essentially do two cuts of the premiere? One cut for television that is two hours long with no break and another cut for streaming that separates it into two different hour long pieces complete with their own sets of credits. Essentially not a big deal but I am curious as to why?