Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Soolsma
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:00 pm

So who voiced the arm and could crediting the voice actor be deliberately omitted?
I believe all these phenomena that our putted-up egos and busy ant minds persist in trying to label, categorize, penetrate, and comphrehend, all spring from this same uncanny source. This is the mother of all "others".
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dustoff
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby dustoff » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:40 pm

So I realize this is coming pretty late, but might as well put this here...

Was just watching Wild at Heart and I noticed a scene I'd forgotten. I remembered Diane Ladd smearing lipstick all over her face, but I'd forgotten what Harry Dean Stanton was up to during that scene:



Remind you of anything?

(EDIT: Just noticed that user Mb3 picked up on this already, in the "References in the Return to Lynch's Non-TP Works" thread. Well, here's a link, anyway!)
BGate
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby BGate » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:45 pm

This seems incredibly obvious, so it's probably been pointed out, but the line, "You are going back in, and I will be with BOB again" would make a lot of sense if uttered by MIKE, no? I've thought it interesting that we've yet to see Gerard outside of the Red Room....
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Elric99 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:13 pm

Do we still need spoiler tags at this point? Not sure so I'll hide this bit about Mr. C rubbing Jack's face:

Spoiler:
While rewatching part 2 tonight I realized when Mr. C is smushing around Jack's face after he helps him hide his Mercedes in the storage facility, that the face thing is actually probably some magic being worked, like how the Woodsmen rub blood over Mr. C's face when reviving him, and how Diane works on Coopers face in part 18 at the motel. Face rubbing = magic. So probably in this case Mr. C was wiping Jack's memory or something.
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mtsi
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:42 pm

Well, he died, so there's that.

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:31 am

Started rewatch tonight with Part 1. (This will probably take awhile, work is very busy as are my weekends.) I'd love it if the mods would clarify whether or not future Part spoilers are game in these threads, so we can analyze how earlier Parts relate to what comes. It's great to have the spoiler tags, but that might get a bit unwieldy. Future Part spoilers up to and including Part 18 follow.......

Spoiler:
The effect of Dale disappearing after the Fireman says he is far away seemed like a very similar effect to Laura's corpse vanishing during Dale's attempted retcon in Part 18. I think most of us took the "far away" to mean he's in the Black Lodge, or that he's far from reaching the enlightenment of the White Lodge (if that's where they are). But maybe the Fireman is referring to Coop being in the "Richard" dimension? When exactly this introductory scene takes place is one of the more fascinating questions in terms of the narrative.

Especially given how things turned out, it's incredible to realize how little Dale we got in Part 1. The opening scene with the Fireman and then the Mr. C scene at Buella's -- that's it!

The shot of the Packard Mill's remains ended up being the only reference to the town's former central business, other than a brief background glimpse (incongruously across from the Sheriff's Station, reflecting the real location but not established series geography) in Part 9.

This didn't register with me before, but Jacoby wearing sunglasses over his 3D glasses is hysterically funny. One of many little touches I'll come to adore on future rewatches. (Just watching Armstrong the dog throughout those scenes is another. And the absurdly elongated bathroom in the NYC glass-box-loft.)

Seeing Constance and Dave Macklay for the first time almost made me squeal with joy. I've rewatched each of the Parts exactly once, a few days after the initial airing. So, I haven't revisited them knowing what's to come (although of course my Part 1 initial rewatch was after I'd seen the first four). I got so attached to these two (especially Constance) that it was wonderful to revisit meeting them for the first time.

So we never found out what the sashimi-looking thing in Bill's trunk was, huh? Honestly, aside from having blood on it, it doesn't look like human flesh to me. Perhaps a piece of an organ?

Also no clue what resonance the gramophone has, other than INLAND EMPIRE parallels, but "the sounds" obviously played a key role in Parts 17/18. Skipping record indicating time being stuck?

Per Dave's pad, Bill Hastings has a 1997 Jaywalking prior. Temporal correlation to the creation of Dougie? :lol:
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powerleftist
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby powerleftist » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:42 am

I always understood 'far away' as being both phisically away from Twin Peaks (e.g. in deep space) and away from achieving his final goal (whatever that is). So The Fireman is teleporting him back, closer to his destiny.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:21 pm

Just rewatched Part 2.

So we never got a resolution to who Mr. C called in this Part. Real Jeffries, Mike, other? Might make for a good poll. The "I missed you in New York" line seems to imply it's
Spoiler:
Judy :shock: Is this why Bob always gets pulled out of Mr. C when he dies, because Judy is pulling him back to her?
Any other obvious options?

Spoiler:
Also, why is Coop so shocked that Jeffries would know about his meeting with Briggs? Does this refer to the meeting 25 years ago? Or was Mr. C there with Hastings & co. when Briggs was beheaded in "the Zone"? We know he was involved with Phyllis and manipulating this situation somehow, but it's all still so vague.


It's also still unclear what exactly Phyllis did to advance Mr. C's plan. She slept with George, which allowed Mr. C to frame George for her murder. But why were Phyllis or George relevant to his plan at all? Did she give him access to Bill's trunk so he could plant whatever the sashimi-fleshy thing was?

Also wondering what Hawk thought was going to happen at Glastonberry Grove on that particular night and why he thought that. Maybe something to do with his "black corn" map/parchment?

Spoiler:
Are we assuming that Laura getting yanked from the Lodge is the result of Coop's well-intentioned meddling with the timeline? So he's trying to save her without realizing that he's the one who put her in danger to begin with.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
djsunyc
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby djsunyc » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:45 pm

i might be mis-remembering but in episode 1, laura tells coop she'll see him in 25 years then says "meanwhile" and presents with her hands.

is the return the "meanwhile" before hitting the 25 year mark?
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The Jumping Man
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby The Jumping Man » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:06 pm

Spoiler:
I think Hawk was drawn to Glastonbury Grove because that's where Coop was supposed to emerge, if all had gone right. Once the Arm doppelganger interferes and sends Coop into "nonexistence," and Evil Coop puts his tulpa plan into action, Coop was rerouted. What we see in Part 18 is his departure from the Lodge playing out the way it was supposed to, as he exits through Glastonbury Grove. Just my two cents!
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:05 pm

The Jumping Man wrote:
Spoiler:
I think Hawk was drawn to Glastonbury Grove because that's where Coop was supposed to emerge, if all had gone right. Once the Arm doppelganger interferes and sends Coop into "nonexistence," and Evil Coop puts his tulpa plan into action, Coop was rerouted. What we see in Part 18 is his departure from the Lodge playing out the way it was supposed to, as he exits through Glastonbury Grove. Just my two cents!


Spoiler:
It may be "where," but not "when"! He was supposed to exit at 2:53pm, but Hawk says something is supposed to happen "tonight."
MysteryMan14
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby MysteryMan14 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:05 pm

After rewatching the first episode I wonder about Tracey. Who has she worked for? And what happened to this security guy. Her presence wasnt a coincidence after all she was very interested in to get to that room where was the glass box.
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:49 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
The Jumping Man wrote:
Spoiler:
I think Hawk was drawn to Glastonbury Grove because that's where Coop was supposed to emerge, if all had gone right. Once the Arm doppelganger interferes and sends Coop into "nonexistence," and Evil Coop puts his tulpa plan into action, Coop was rerouted. What we see in Part 18 is his departure from the Lodge playing out the way it was supposed to, as he exits through Glastonbury Grove. Just my two cents!


Spoiler:
It may be "where," but not "when"! He was supposed to exit at 2:53pm, but Hawk says something is supposed to happen "tonight."


isn't it part of the original show that the lodges only open at a certain time when the planets align, something that only happenes every 25 years or something to that effect? that's what i feel Log Lady means when she says "The stars turn and a time present itself..." and why Hawk think something will happen there that night.
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:56 am

Having completed a full rewatch of S1, S2 and FWWM over the last few weeks, last night I commenced rewatching S3 afresh. So begins a revaluation of the whole of S3:

The stand-out moments to me are somewhat different now. Gerard's repeated line 'Is it future or is it past?' is, in both cases, spoken after a prolonged, half-smiling stare that reminds me of Mary's father's fixed smile in the chicken dinner scene of Eraserhead: it's not quite as emphatic but is nonetheless a touch too long to be considered comfortably naturalistic. It adds a ton of unease to the red room scenes, particularly in its repeated form, which catches the viewer off-guard even when it's anticipated.

Dale's response to <whatever Laura whispers> is also more striking now, given that this moment is
Spoiler:
immortalised in bleached-out slow motion underneath the finale's credits.
(Scope = pt. 18)

Sam's mention of a predecessor who saw something in the glass cube, who wouldn't -- or couldn't -- say more puts me in mind of
Spoiler:
Hutch's mention of a belated Sammy to whom he owed money. Since it is established by photo that Mr. C is somehow involved with the New York experiment, and possibly finances the project, it might not be unreasonable to guess that Hutch was Sam's predecessor. He may have promised Sam money for replacing him, after seeing something that he did not want to think about. This might also go some way to accounting for Gary's somewhat more 'philosophical' outlook -- even in places touching on some kind of vestigial conscience -- when compared to that of his wife, who is clearly his superior in the chain of command and closer to Mr. C in terms of undiluted, untroubled maliciousness.
(Scope = pts. 10 & 17)

The moody introduction of Mr. C and his rendezvous with Ray and Darya at Otis and Buella's cabin still delivers. The lunch scene in which he emphasises his lack of needs -- his lack of humanity one might say -- is still very powerful. His discovery of Darya and Ray's subterfuge and subsequent murder of Darya is if anything more brutal, shocking and sickening than it was on first watch: Mr. C is laid out here as an absolute evil with seemingly omniscient technology to hand. His murder of Phyllis Hastings is just as cold-blooded, with its dismissive incantation about humans inevitably following human nature
Spoiler:
(assuming this is what is meant -- by Occam's Razor; it's unnecessary to see Phyllis as a tulpa).
(Scope = pt.15)

Everything about Mr. C is laid out to highlight how powerfully inhuman he is, and his delivery towards humans is laced with misanthropic contempt. The way he massages Jack's jowls, as if feeling his teeth through the cheeks and enjoying the pulpy sensation of the flesh, prior to his (unshown) murder of the same, like his finger inspection of Chantal, suggests a deep disregard for human integrity, and the integrity of the human form. Yet, and in some sense because of this misanthropy, weaknesses are also shown: he appears not to anticipate Ray and Darya's betrayal of him, and seems genuinely angry about the discovery -- insofar as he can be angry. Nor can he apparently understand why Hasting's secretary will only share co-ordinates with Ray and not himself. And finally, in Darya's valedictory moments, he shows her the playing card that represents his motivation: as if only to a person whom he is about to kill will he reveal what is driving him and occupying him. He's more human than he realises -- and the ultimate secret about him must be that he abhors himself for this.

S3 was introduced by this two-parter with a darker, more violent tone than was anticipated by many. There's a lot of Lost Highway atmosphere in here, particularly with the prolonged scenes of people sat on the sofa watching the cube, with an array of Mystery Man style security cameras whirring away. The first half in particular is very scopic, very thematically self-aware of the act of watching and the inherent anxieties of not knowing if one is being watched in turn. Although, near to the close of the second half we also witness, sat on a sofa watching 'animal life', Sarah Palmer. It could be reasoned that this is a case of the watcher being watched: almost a reciprocation of the first sofa-scene, in which the experiment showed up to witness Sam and Tracy getting involved in some animal life of their own.

These initial episodes/parts have not lost anything for knowing their place in the whole story (including the previous seasons and film); they are deeply mysterious and far away from Twin Peaks, even interspersed as they are with re-introductions of Twin Peaks staples Jacoby, Ben, Jerry, Shelly, James, Lucy, Andy, Hawk, the Log Lady, a Renault, Sarah Palmer, the Sheriff Station, the Great Northern, the Roadhouse and the Palmer house. The establishing shot of the Palmer house, steeped in darkness, is particularly dramatic on rewatch for reasons that viewers of part 18 will understand.

The exchange between Lucy and the Man In Suit insurance agent at the reception desk of the Sheriff Station acts as a kind of summary of everything to follow: a barrage of miscommunication, an ongoing, dream-like inability (on both parts) to get their point across. Here we have communication as a syrupy and stultifying struggle, a failure to communicate, which nonetheless affects some kind of exchange. Without having really communicated anything much verbally to each other in terms of their intentions, both participants nonetheless manage to kludge together a passing resolution to the problem of communion: a calling card is left. That physical deposit, like the left-overs of a battle no-one could ever win,
Spoiler:
will not come up again but it nonetheless hangs over everything in much the same way as Mr. C's playing card: the symbol of an intractable mystery and of human frustration at its intractability.
(Scope = pts 3-18)

The Chromatics 'Shadow' does two things: it shows that essentially, things are the same in Twin Peaks (Ruth Radelet has been styled very much as an updated Julee Cruise, complete with blue light, dreamy-but-impassive far away facial expressions, buttermilk make-up and a similar hairstyle) but also that the 1950s small-town vibe is very much diminished, and the Peaksian world is far more connected and less insular than it used to be. Whatever bubble it was living in has now burst, and the dark story at its core seems either to have spread and become generalised over the face of the earth, or has become imbricated in a general mysterious darkness that was always everywhere, but localised in subterranean underworld locations like the windowless New York tower, a Buckhorn apartment, or Buella's cabin.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Parts 1 & 2 - My log has a message for you & The stars turn and a time presents itself (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:29 am

I really like the creepy wolf doorknocker at the Hasting's residence. Interestingly enough, on some tarot cards for 'The Fool' there is a fox at the foot of he Fool.

The Fool reversed cautions you about potentially being taken advantage of or entering into a deal where you do not fully understand the consequences of your decisions.
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