Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

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yaxomoxay
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Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:07 am

What can I say about E6? That was one rollercoaster of emotions.
At this point, I am convinced that so far we haven't watched a sequel to the originals, but we're seeing a prequel. It's a prequel on the life in Twin Peaks the town in the post Laura Palmer era.

The Hit and Run scene is a key scene, and it was powerful. A couple of years ago I lost a young friend to a H&R accident. As the kid, she was hit while crossing an intersection during a jogging session; she had a green light and a speeding car just hit her, and left her die on scene. Police never found the guilty party. In all its drama, I think that this was powerful because of my "prequel theory" (not really a theory). A young kid died because of a drug addict, through no fault of his own. To me that scene indicates the total loss of innocence in Twin Peaks. When Laura was murdered, the town was more or less "innocent" in its lifestyle. A simple town, with a small task force trying to keep it that way (the Bookhouse boys). Today? The innocence is almost completely gone. Good people like Andy and Lucy are ridiculed. Good people like the Sheriff are insulted by vile people in his own force. Good people like Hawk are disrespected by the very same people. The lady that tips Norma and Shelly is an amazing individual that apparently doesn't have enough money and no one cares for her.
The town has been taken over by pure evil. Twin Peaks is a tough town to live in now, it's not the town where murders might not be normal, but they're not going to destroy a community as it did in 1989. That's probably why no one really reacted when the poor kid died (I also believe that Lynch made some of the closeups without telling the actors what they witnessed). But there is hope. The kids' spirit, his innocence, will exist forever. It's immortal. That's why Carl says "God" and goes to the mother, and she stops her profuse cry. She acknowledges a greater scheme of things.

This is all a prequel to Twin Peaks Season 3. We haven't seen it yet. And that's probably why coopDougie is in such bad shape. He is waking up, slowly, because he's being formed. Right now he is an idea, far from Twin Peaks, exactly as he was 25 years ago, before Laura died. He was connected to TP through the Banks murder, but he was still an unformed idea. Before his first scene in the originals, 20 minutes in, no one even knew him.

We aren't at the 20 minute marker yet. We're just getting closer.

(However, I can't wait for Dogie to wake up. I love him, but I also want the real good Cooper).


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Last edited by yaxomoxay on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:13 am

Jonah wrote:Anyone want to speculate why it is that Lynch seems so reluctant to use the original characters in a key fashion?...I thought it was a fluke with FWWM, but I think this new series establishes that it's not... Anyway, I wonder why Lynch seems reluctant to properly revisit the ongoing stories
I haven't posted much and browsed limitedly (it's an infinite number of posts to 'browse' through!) but has anyone pointed out the comparatively low number/ ratio of original Peaks episodes Lynch had any hand with, either directing or writing or co-writing?

Because so many "guest" directors stepped in to command the episodes we'd come to know and love/hate, not to mention same w/ writers who often stepped in themselves in the absence of Frost or Lynch - - because of this fact that's fairly noteworthy from opening credits in S1-2 (which I've re-watched on disc prior to The REturn) - - then for me anyways, it is not a High Expectation that new episodes directed exclusively by DKL will resemble the majority of stories / character developments/ connected scenarios I'm familiar with from S1-2.

Sorry if that's a too-obvious observation. Reinforcing it is the shape FWWM took, that was Lynch's own, minus Frost's participation, and taking on its own quirks, giving it such a different quality overall than TP had. So I've told myself with The Return, to prepare for something much more resembling FWWM than TP1-2. The latter simply got co-opted by enough different voices/ perspectives that I can hardly call out Frost/ Lynch for departing too far from fans' expectations. Lynch has singular purposes of his own unique mind to fulfill without obligating others' hopes; and Frost may have had who-knows-how-significant a role in shaping this new Return series? It sure doesn't jibe with what his book TSHoTP built up, not that I can see.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby indyit » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:38 am

garethw wrote:
indyit wrote:I'm curious of the significance of Janey-E, Dougie and Sonny Jim's names... They seem incredibly deliberate, especially Janey-E (never seen that ever!). Reminds me of Annie, Judy and Josie... although we haven't heard a peep from or about them so far.


I'm glad you noticed that out, too!

I first noticed Lynch's predilection for names ending in -ee around INLAND EMPIRE (there are tons of them in it; the only one I can remember right now is Smitty -- been a long time since I watched IE).

"Janey-E" really stood out for the same reason.

Re: Sonny Jim, I think Lynch's mother was called Sunny. She died in a car accident a few years ago.


Ah good call on Lynch's mother, and I haven't seen IE yet so didn't know that about the names. Guess it's just a Lynch convention then because those pink ladies are named Candie, Mandie and Sandie, so there's a lot of ie/y names at this point.

yaxomoxay wrote:This is all a prequel to Twin Peaks Season 3. We haven't seen it yet. And that's probably why coopDougie is in such bad shape. He is waking up, slowly, because he's being formed. Right now he is an idea, far from Twin Peaks, exactly as he was 25 years ago, before Laura died. He was connected to TP through the Banks murder, but he was still an unformed idea. Before his first scene in the originals, 20 minutes in, no one even knew him.

We aren't at the 20 minute marker yet. We're just getting closer.


I like what you're saying in your post and I felt the same way at least to begin with. I wouldn't say this is a prequel, but it is definitely the FWWM/Missing Pieces/first 20 min of the Pilot part of this season. This is watching Cooper doing things that don't directly play into the central conflict/mystery but is in the periphery. This is watching the characters and not really knowing their role (if there even is a larger role). And things feel like they're coming together. I do wonder how long DroolCoop is meant to last. I enjoyed him in this episode simply because of Kyle's smile in the lift and his fantastic performance but I really don't want it to take up this much of the season. I assume having a scene with even MIKE frustrated is a signal that something has to change soon.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:40 am

Generally favourable feelings towards this episode.

If I have a complaint it would be that it's beginning to feel like Gerard's ability to contact Cooper-husk is too easy and could easily get to feel over-used if it continues. Furthermore, it somewhat diminishes the lodge/red room disquieting aura of mystery to have it pop in and out like this. After watching the original series and FWWM virtually on loop for twenty years, this is especially the case when the location just mundanely pops into the story without the unsettling sound design, wind, muted string scrapes or even just a walking bass. Apart from the lovely songs we've been treated to, I'm a little disappointed in general by the incidental music that's been selected for this new run of episodes. That's not specific to this episode of course, but this episode marked the point at which the lack of atmospheric accompaniment for some scenes itself began to feel intrusive. Also, this makes me want to ask: since when has Gerard been so unambiguously benign? I feel some ambiguity may have been lost.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:42 am

Framed_Angel wrote:
Jonah wrote:Anyone want to speculate why it is that Lynch seems so reluctant to use the original characters in a key fashion?...I thought it was a fluke with FWWM, but I think this new series establishes that it's not... Anyway, I wonder why Lynch seems reluctant to properly revisit the ongoing stories
I haven't posted much and browsed limitedly (it's an infinite number of posts to 'browse' through!) but has anyone pointed out the comparatively low number/ ratio of original Peaks episodes Lynch had any hand with, either directing or writing or co-writing?

Because so many "guest" directors stepped in to command the episodes we'd come to know and love/hate, not to mention same w/ writers who often stepped in themselves in the absence of Frost or Lynch - - because of this fact that's fairly noteworthy from opening credits in S1-2 (which I've re-watched on disc prior to The REturn) - - then for me anyways, it is not a High Expectation that new episodes directed exclusively by DKL will resemble the majority of stories / character developments/ connected scenarios I'm familiar with from S1-2.

Sorry if that's a too-obvious observation. Reinforcing it is the shape FWWM took, that was Lynch's own, minus Frost's participation, and taking on its own quirks, giving it such a different quality overall than TP had. So I've told myself with The Return, to prepare for something much more resembling FWWM than TP1-2. The latter simply got co-opted by enough different voices/ perspectives that I can hardly call out Frost/ Lynch for departing too far from fans' expectations. Lynch has singular purposes of his own unique mind to fulfill without obligating others' hopes; and Frost may have had who-knows-how-significant a role in shaping this new Return series? It sure doesn't jibe with what his book TSHoTP built up, not that I can see.


I think if you take only the pilot, the final episode and FWWM and compare it with the new season, you will find the differences between the old and new Twin Peaks shrink considerably (except, of course, for increased violence, sex, swearing).
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:42 am

thedarktrees wrote:The scene with the kid and mom leading up to the horrifying hit & run was kind of weird. The "catch me" game they were playing was just bizarre (run 20 feet away, look back, and have the other person catch you?). But: it did kind of look look Dale running from his doppelganger and getting caught.
I was noticing something unusual too, how the game seemed to command my attention for being different somehow. Different from what you might see in a game of Tag or Chase. And your comparison w/ Coop running from his doppelganger is apt.
These are things that resonate with me, that reward my paying close attention. I'm still waiting to learn if anyone else noticed Duncan Todd's use of a kerchief to lift the envelope from the safe to his desk, or the traffic light's 3-cycle color change instead of the earlier two [2] that was more often seen in S1-2 (quoting myself below from p12 of this thread):

"
Framed_Angel wrote:Small details I wondered who else noticed: why did Duncan Todd use a kerchief or tissue to handle the envelope he pulled from the safe? Did he have a reason for not wanting to be traced as authorizing (or putting in motion) the hit on Dougie Droolcup or the lady whose photos were inside?

***
The traffic light went through 3 cycles, green>> yellow>> red. I could swear when we've seen it before in Season 1 it only went through one color change not two. Probably not significant but I always wanted to read more into that traffic light. Probably just represents the electricity theme now.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby HoodedMatt » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:43 am

The longer Cooper remains "trapped" as Dougie, the more uncomfortable it is for my wife and I to watch. My mother in law has Alzheimer's pretty bad and these scenes just resonate with us so much. I hate to say it, but if there wasn't clearly something going on (the Red Room flames on the fruit machines, the green glow on the lying dude and the case files) I think we would be considering stopping watching as it's really difficult viewing.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:50 am

RichardHorne wrote:Anyone have any thouths about scene with coins? There was only one, but then became two. Another reference to duality of Black Lodge?


I definitely noticed the repeated coin imagery as well. It fits Richard, as we saw a more tragic/sad side to the duality of his character. He reminds me of Bobby Briggs generally, but particularly when Bobby shot the guy in FWWM.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:51 am

Framed_Angel wrote:I'm still waiting to learn if anyone else noticed Duncan Todd's use of a kerchief to lift the envelope from the safe to his desk, or the traffic light's 3-cycle color change instead of the earlier two [2] that was more often seen in S1-2


I think the kerchief could've been used because he didn't want to be associated with murder, a means of distancing himself. As for the traffic lights, I might be misremembering, but I seem to recall at least a couple of the scenes involving all three lights
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Electric Tree » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:53 am

Okay, I just want to make sure that at this point we DONT know what the scribblings Dougie made on the insurance claims mean to his boss, correct? ...or did I miss something obvious?
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby ThumbsUp » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:55 am

The coin in the mouth reminded me of the cherry stem in the mouth.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:56 am

Electric Tree wrote:Okay, I just want to make sure that at this point we DONT know what the scribblings Dougie made on the insurance claims mean to his boss, correct? ...or did I miss something obvious?


Presumably he's pointing out fraud of some kind in an abstract way, but other than that both the stairs & ladder suggest a transcendence (is Cooper on a higher level of being, or aspiring to one?), while the stairs alone evoke the chevron pattern of the red room. The laaders seemed to point to things; one led to the word 'witnesses' & one crossed from one column to another... not sure what either meant, but Bushnell seemed to get something out of it!
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby billloomis » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:00 am

Big fan of everything up to this episode. I was generally bored out of my socks last night. Really hope this is not a sign of things to come for the next few episodes. Only thing i liked was the coin flip trick. Other than that it was rather a weak entry in the series.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:02 am

I think it's twofold, like most of the stuff with Cooper's senses: There is a magical realism to his own powers of deductive reasoning slowly returning as he intuits that Sinclair is lying and conning the company, but there is also perhaps a deeper Lodge mystical connection. I think the doodles likely relate to the Lodge while also allowing Mullins to 'see the connection' - i.e., the physical lines between Sinclair and the claim forms.
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Re: RE: Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Dom834 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:07 am

LonelySoul wrote:And I'd guess that international providers also aren't counted in the Nielsen rating system, but that one I'm not sure about.


Most definitely not, US only The Live+30 numbers aren't even out either.

The show got sold in 38 countries (and what filtered is that Showtime drove a hard bargain), and more markets have since been announced (a few decided to program the show only next fall). That's a whole lot of revenues right there for a show with an "average" premium budget (comparable to Shameless, Dexter and co.) The show also brought a whole lot of online subscribers, but also boosted massively awareness of all the "online" options to get Showtime without cable, and that's pure gold in the current market.

I'm not worried one bit for the financial success of the show. There will be a second wave of viewers, which will exceed the 30 days and thus won't be comptabilise, who were waiting for other shows (eg: American Gods, The Handmaid's Tale) to end, or for the summer vacations to finish before starting Twin Peaks. Based on my own entourage, where pretty much only the hardcore fans around me have decided to follow it live and all the others interested in the show have decided to wait until they can binge it, I'd say Showtime can also expect excellent digital sales/Blu Ray sales through next fall.

Ratings for premium shows are meaningless beside showing a tendency, not always reliable. Shows garner their revenues over several months these days and then keep bringing in cash for many years. In the end, shows that appear to attract pathetic viewerships of 1 million and such end up being seen by many times more people, but over a fairly long time period. "TV" is more popular than ever. Cable isn't.

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