Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

[Jonah]

I also take exception to the idea that Lynch is full of contempt for either the show, the characters or the audience, because I think what he and Frost are doing, especially with Dougie, is deeply personal and heartfelt, the opposite of cold or hateful (and gets more emotional for me by the week). But that doesn't mean it's for everyone.

Agreed. I don't think they're "messing with us" or "crapping all over it" or any of those things. I think they both love this world. I do wonder though why they seem reluctant to spend more time with the original characters or in the town - but I wondered the same thing about FWWM. And I did find the theory of "subversion" mentioned in the criticism thread interesting, though again I don't think they hate the show or the fans, just found that theory interesting.

[Wonderful & Strange]

The demand by fans for the Dougie story to end reminds me of the demand by fans for the Laura Palmer murder to be solved.

In both cases viewers regard their expectations as something more sacred than the creator's story.

[Jonah]

The demand by fans for the Dougie story to end reminds me of the demand by fans for the Laura Palmer murder to be solved.

In both cases viewers regard their expectations as something more sacred than the creator's story.

Hmmm, that's interesting. I was never in the "demand the murder be solved" camp, though I think by solving it, whether or not it did cause the show to go downhill in the aftermath, we got an amazing episode (14) and wonderful mythology. Imagine if we still didn't know? That might be kind of cool, but just think of all the great stuff we would have missed!

As for the Dougie stuff, it's not so much that I want it to end as I want it to progress. It's becoming too repetitive and rapidly losing any amusing or endearing elements that it had. Even if it was to show him seeing another owl, the word "Cooper", and begin to have some memories, or possibly start driving back to "Twin Peaks" with Janey-E. So, I don't think it needs to stop per se, but I do think it needs to progress - it's just circling the same old ground and becoming stale, imo.

[WhiteLodge90]

The demand by fans for the Dougie story to end reminds me of the demand by fans for the Laura Palmer murder to be solved.

In both cases viewers regard their expectations as something more sacred than the creator's story.

Big difference considering one is played out in very long slow moving repetitive scenes and another was a enthralling mystery that encaptured the whole show.

[Panapaok]

The demand by fans for the Dougie story to end reminds me of the demand by fans for the Laura Palmer murder to be solved.

In both cases viewers regard their expectations as something more sacred than the creator's story.

Well, "When will Cooper be back?" is basically the new "Who killed Laura Palmer?", like LostInTheMovies has said.

[Fireboob]

I think the scenes with dugie coop are heart breaking. They are done really well especially with that music. Really makes feel for him in a sad how can i help kind of way..

I agree progression would be nice but


In lynch an frost we trust.

[WhiteLodge90]

The demand by fans for the Dougie story to end reminds me of the demand by fans for the Laura Palmer murder to be solved.

In both cases viewers regard their expectations as something more sacred than the creator's story.

Well, "When will Cooper be back?" is basically the new "Who killed Laura Palmer?", like LostInTheMovies has said.

If that's the case then I expect Lynch to course correct himself and not have Cooper come back at all..

[Jonah]

The demand by fans for the Dougie story to end reminds me of the demand by fans for the Laura Palmer murder to be solved.

In both cases viewers regard their expectations as something more sacred than the creator's story.

Well, "When will Cooper be back?" is basically the new "Who killed Laura Palmer?", like LostInTheMovies has said.

Maybe Who Killed Cooper? T-shirts will start circulating - or We Want Coop Back!

The demand by fans for the Dougie story to end reminds me of the demand by fans for the Laura Palmer murder to be solved.

In both cases viewers regard their expectations as something more sacred than the creator's story.

Big difference considering one is played out in very long slow moving repetitive scenes and another was a enthralling mystery that encaptured the whole show.

That's a good point too.

[pvilmur]

Hi all,

It's been forever since I've visited Dugpa forums, but have found myself lurking for the last few episodes to gauge the discussion. Seems this forum is as lively ever!!

Anyway, a couple things I noticed that I'm not sure have been brought up --

-- The shot of Janey-E taking a bite out of her sandwich is identical at the beginning and end of the kitchen table scene. You can even tell that a bite hadn't been taken from the sandwich yet after Cooper goes up the stairs.

-- Coin toss -- the two coin tosses in this episode (Red with the dime and Hawk dropping the nickel) echo a similar scene from the original series in which Cooper tosses a coin to determine which property to look at (the coin landed on Dead Dog Farm). Not sure if there's a connection but LUCK seems to be an ingredient here. Just my two-cents (pun intended)...

[Panapaok]

The demand by fans for the Dougie story to end reminds me of the demand by fans for the Laura Palmer murder to be solved.

In both cases viewers regard their expectations as something more sacred than the creator's story.

Well, "When will Cooper be back?" is basically the new "Who killed Laura Palmer?", like LostInTheMovies has said.

If that's the case then I expect Lynch to course correct himself and not have Cooper come back at all..

Nah, I don't think so. The Laura Palmer murder was a mystery that could potentially remain unsolved, just like Lynch said he envisioned it. The DougieCoop situation is an esoteric emotional journey for the character in order to come back and restore things once and for all.

[Wonderful & Strange]

There's definitely progress in Dougie's arc this episode as he continues to slowly rediscover himself (via Sonny Jim and the boxing image) and he actually, with the help of the lodge, cracks a case of corruption at work. That's a pretty big accomplishment for someone nearly newborn to the world.

The slow rediscovery is actually very realistic considering Coop's been back in the world for about 24 hrs. What fans want is the typical (expected) quick resolution we find on regular TV shows.

Instead, Lynch and Frost are interested in exploring Cooper's essential humanity and the construction of identity. Very interesting subjects.

As I imply above, the problem with Twin Peaks has always been the fans, and how their expectations hurt the show.

[WhiteLodge90]

There's definitely progress in Dougie's arc this episode as he continues to slowly rediscover himself (via Sonny Jim and the boxing image) and he actually, with the help of the lodge, cracks a case of corruption at work. That's a pretty big accomplish for someone nearly newborn to the world.

The slow rediscovery is actually very realistic considering Coop's been back in the world for about 24 hrs. What fans want is the typical (expected) quick resolution we find on regular TV shows.

Instead, Lynch and Frost are interested in exploring Cooper's essential humanity and the construction of identity. Very interesting subjects.

As I imply above, the problem with Twin Peaks has always been the fans, and how their expectations hurt the show.

No I really don't have too many problems with the show but if there was one it was Lynch and Frost being absent from the second season even though I actually enjoyed most of the second season.

I think if Cooper can regain his memory by episode 9 I'll be fine with it but I don't expect that. I don't even expect him to be fully competent by then and who's to say he doesn't become competent but never get his memories back?

[Hockey Mask]

There's definitely progress in Dougie's arc this episode as he continues to slowly rediscover himself (via Sonny Jim and the boxing image) and he actually, with the help of the lodge, cracks a case of corruption at work. That's a pretty big accomplish for someone nearly newborn to the world.

The slow rediscovery is actually very realistic considering Coop's been back in the world for about 24 hrs. What fans want is the typical (expected) quick resolution we find on regular TV shows.

Instead, Lynch and Frost are interested in exploring Cooper's essential humanity and the construction of identity. Very interesting subjects.

As I imply above, the problem with Twin Peaks has always been the fans, and how their expectations hurt the show.

No I really don't have too many problems with the show but if there was one it was Lynch and Frost being absent from the second season even though I actually enjoyed most of the second season.

I think if Cooper can regain his memory by episode 9 I'll be fine with it but I don't expect that. I don't even expect him to be fully competent by then and who's to say he doesn't become competent but never get his memories back?

Maybe he finally regains his memories once he sees Harry.

[Troubbble]

I also take exception to the idea that Lynch is full of contempt for either the show, the characters or the audience, because I think what he and Frost are doing, especially with Dougie, is deeply personal and heartfelt, the opposite of cold or hateful (and gets more emotional for me by the week). But that doesn't mean it's for everyone.

Agreed. I don't think they're "messing with us" or "crapping all over it" or any of those things. I think they both love this world. I do wonder though why they seem reluctant to spend more time with the original characters or in the town - but I wondered the same thing about FWWM. And I did find the theory of "subversion" mentioned in the criticism thread interesting, though again I don't think they hate the show or the fans, just found that theory interesting.

I think they have a very specific story they want to tell, and unfortunately for many, it doesn't involve a lot of fan-service or nostalgia.

Most of the old characters are here, and I think the majority DO have important roles to play that will simply take more time to reveal... But really, this was never about re-creating the original show for David and Mark, and they have always said so very explicitly.

This lack of primary focus on the old characters is also exacerbated by the deliberate pace of the overall plot, and the fact that the episodes were not written to stand alone.

Personally, that final detail is the only one I've struggled with at all, and that was mostly with respect to this latest episode--which was interesting and helped moved things forward, but was also the least suited to watching as an individual episode of all the parts they've aired so far. As I watched, I found myself thinking "I'm enjoying every second of this, but anyone who has had problems already is REALLY going to be annoyed this time." It's all about the ratio of old storylines to new ones, basically...and Episode 6 was weighted heavily in favor of the latter.

(For those growing more and more anxious about when Dale will "come back," I would guess you won't have to wait much longer. I think he'll still have business to settle in Vegas before leaving, but he's already gotten his trademark suit back and received a special wake up call from the Black Lodge...and Ike the Spike will be looking for him at the office next episode! If he survives an attempted murder by bumbling through it slapstick-style, and the threat is eliminated without him being effectively restored, then I guess all bets are off... But that's not what I'm expecting after last night.)

[Wonderful & Strange]

@WhiteLodge90

Your post brings up an interesting point -- why should we assume that Cooper must return to his normal self at all?

Maybe it's about returning and living with differences and damage?

The old Cooper was perhaps a bit too perfect?

But notice how most of us just basically assume that Cooper MUST return whole at some point. Why?