Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

[BigEd]

I'm confused and "need help" (imagine that wrt Twin Peaks)

Are the "hit men" who set the bomb on Dougie's car and had a rifle ready to shoot him when Jade was giving him his second ride, connected to or unrelated to the loan sharks who were trying to blackmail him with the Jade photo? For some reason I was for a time thinking they were the same guys, but now see conflicts with this (I haven't had time to go back and check the associated episodes. Thanks.

[sylvia_north]

I'm confused and "need help" (imagine that wrt Twin Peaks)

Are the "hit men" who set the bomb on Dougie's car and had a rifle ready to shoot him when Jade was giving him his second ride, connected to or unrelated to the loan sharks who were trying to blackmail him with the Jade photo? For some reason I was for a time thinking they were the same guys, but now see conflicts with this (I haven't had time to go back and check the associated episodes. Thanks.

Different pair of guys. The guys who "loaded up" the car were way past trying to blackmail.

[pixletwin]

I don't care what anyone says. Ike the Spike's Murderous Theme Song makes me laugh every single time.

You are not alone. :lol

[BigEd]

I'm confused and "need help" (imagine that wrt Twin Peaks)

Are the "hit men" who set the bomb on Dougie's car and had a rifle ready to shoot him when Jade was giving him his second ride, connected to or unrelated to the loan sharks who were trying to blackmail him with the Jade photo? For some reason I was for a time thinking they were the same guys, but now see conflicts with this (I haven't had time to go back and check the associated episodes. Thanks.

Different pair of guys. The guys who "loaded up" the car were way past trying to blackmail.

Thank you. I had kinda figured that out but needed closure

It finally dawned on me that they would not kill him until they were sure that he was never going to come up with $50K. Now that Janey-E has given them her best and final offer, it will be interesting to see if they keep up the pressure or just give up. They didn't seem to be the sharpest thugs in the world. Funny that Janey-E was fully aware that Dougie owed money to them, but didn't know it was tied to gambling until she met them in the park.

[Hester Prynne]

I will again note, in case anyone forgot or missed it, that Al Strobel has been credited for playing "Phillip Gerard" -- NOT "Mike" -- on this new series. May mean nothing, but DKL has been pretty meticulous about how people are credited on this show.

I'm not reading a lot into that. DKL may be dropping hints and teases in the credits, but the credits aren't the Holy Grail of the show. If Al Strobel has never been credited as playing Mike even though he has played Mike, I'm not so sure we can infer that he isn't Mike in these episodes, or that maybe Mike and Phillip aren't "one and the same."

[OneEyedJack]

I don't care what anyone says. Ike the Spike's Murderous Theme Song makes me laugh every single time.

You are not alone. :lol

That's Lorraine's theme song though. You only hear it when you see her. RIP Lorraine and that song.

[Ross]

I will again note, in case anyone forgot or missed it, that Al Strobel has been credited for playing "Phillip Gerard" -- NOT "Mike" -- on this new series. May mean nothing, but DKL has been pretty meticulous about how people are credited on this show.

I'm not reading a lot into that. DKL may be dropping hints and teases in the credits, but the credits aren't the Holy Grail of the show. If Al Strobel has never been credited as playing Mike even though he has played Mike, I'm not so sure we can infer that he isn't Mike in these episodes, or that maybe Mike and Phillip aren't "one and the same."

The whole Gerard/Mike thing has always been a little confusing to me. In my opinion, it seems we have never seen Mike's true face. Since Gerard is the person/body Mike inhabits, what does Mike look like? The original series never showed Gerard in the Lodge, but FWWM and the new series have made things a bit more confusing by showing him there. Some of Gerard's scenes in S3 may have even been originally intended for MJA(?)

[N. Needleman]

I suspect most of Gerard's current scenes were intended for MJA.

[Mr. Reindeer]

There's definitely a strong implication that MfAP is "Mike"'s true face. He is "the Arm," and the two act very much as one in FWWM. (The FWWM script even refers to MfAP as "Mike" in a couple places, although this might have also been referring to the actor "Little Mike"). It's definitely murky, but I think the most obvious interpretation of the original show/FWWM is that Mike and MfAP are one and the same. The new show may cause us to reevaluate that.

I'd sure love to read the original script's plans for MfAP, Log Lady, Jeffries, Audrey, etc. in TP:TR, before real-world practicalities changed things. Can we start a petition now for an official script release after the show ends? I'm regretting not mentioning it to Mark when I met him at the signing!

[Ross]

I suspect most of Gerard's current scenes were intended for MJA.

I believe this to be the case. And that's based on more than a guess.

[alreadygoneplaces]

DougieCoop bit is also getting played out and watching him shuffle around, pulled and prodded by other characters cannot continue much longer. The big question is what ingredient or event is needed for Coop to fully or at least substantially reconnect with his true personality.

I think he needs to be found by someone who knew him, and be shown who he is again. Or, Windom Earle disguised as the Log Lady will drop a sandbag on his head from a great height.

An open question is where does his supernatural intuition come from. Is he to some extent controlled by Mike? Is it an ability he always had? In the original series, Cooper resorted to unorthodox investigative techniques, and his instincts rarely failed. Perhaps we are seeing a refined version of gifts/talents he has always possessed. They may also have been enhanced by his prolonged stay in the Black Lodge.

I posted this in the ep3+4 thread: I kept thinking about Cooper's (and the show's) themes of of instinct and intuition (remembering the old tibet/throwing stones at glass bottle scene, coop and Major briggs's 'hardware' etc). Episode 4 seems to tighten up the connection between this and the operations of the lodge(s). Coop in the casino seems to be operating on pure instinct, completely unclouded by self-awareness. In no time at all, he just so happens to end up surviving attempts on his life, and win a vast amount of money, which later is revealed to pay off debts (which also looked to threaten his life). There seem to be forces guiding him... everyone he encountered did exactly what they needed to do not to help him get to a doctor, but to help him along this specific path, the exact circumstances that would save his life.

Earlier in this thread I saw someone post something similar:

I enjoy Cooper in his current state in light of Buddhist thought on consciousness.

He is still in a clear light, spotless mind, state. Which it is important to see that as more outside stimuli affect him he is becoming more in sync with the conditioned world around him. Perhaps there is even a part of him that does not want to return to this world of suffering, of Samsara.

http://www.lamayeshe.com/article/what-mind

It's a nice way of looking at it, if nothing else.

Call me crazy, but did anyone else find the Albert/Diane exchange a little strange... like there is also something else going on there. She didn't exactly seem that surprised to see him. Am I missing something?

I assumed a meeting had been arranged. Sure, Cole asked Albert if he knew where she lived and he replied "I know where she drinks", but they're the FBI, they could find her no problem. And I doubt she'd go there drinking every night, alone, so I can't see Albert making what seemed like a pain in the ass journey on the mere hope she might be there...

I think the Bad Dale planned the hit in collusion with Jeffries/whoever he thought was Jeffries. He tells Darya he has a plan for staying out of the Lodge and he asks Ray for two guys for a job. Dougie would seem to be the plan and the guys would seem to be the insurance policy to get rid of the other Dale when he emerges from the Lodge. Both failed.

This was my reading of that situation too. One thing I'm wondering about now is evil Coop telling Chantal he needed her and Hutch to "be somewhere in a few days"- we haven't seen what this is yet, but we're surely due to find out very soon

My theory is a bit patchy but here are my thoughts

P jefferies has already had dealings with bad coop prior to him appearing in the fbi head quarters. I think this as he points to cooper and says "who do you think this is ? " with the line is it future or is it past being mentioned in this series and with the plot by jefferies to kill bad coop I am starting to think p jefferies was taken by the lodge and plonked 25 years in the future. Similar to the way good cooper has been let out of the lodge 25 years later with the man with one arm saying " is it future or is it past "

Were jefferies says "we live in a dream" i wonder if that was his experience in the lodge like cooper.

I couldn't really speculate with any conviction over what happened to Philip Jefferies, but yeah, it does seem like he's ventured across time in some way, and his suspicion of Cooper in FWWM that you mentioned here made it seem as though he'd want to stop evil Coop rather than help him.

[alreadygoneplaces]

I'd sure love to read the original script's plans for MfAP, Log Lady, Jeffries, Audrey, etc. in TP:TR, before real-world practicalities changed things. Can we start a petition now for an official script release after the show ends? I'm regretting not mentioning it to Mark when I met him at the signing!

As much as I'd be interested in reading it, I'd hate it if they did this. My knowledge that the evolution of the arm was a workaround because of MJA's effective unavailability made it harder to get behind it as a genuine creative choice. But then again, I feel like I'm the only person here who really, really hopes they just bit the bullet and recast Philip Jefferies, although I doubt this will happen (I'm interested in the character, there's a lot of potential in it, and I want him to have a significant role). Unless it's impossible to separate the actor from the role (obviously, I wouldn't be able to accept Cooper being recast), I'd much rather they just change the actor than change the story. And if they do change the story, I'd rather not know about it.

Re:Philip Jefferies, since I mentioned him- he seems like a pretty obviously recastable character to me, since a) it was such a brief appearance, and b) it was David Bowie! If you can make the leap to accept someone as iconic as David Bowie as Philip Jefferies, then it's pretty easy to accept a recast, imo

[WhiteLodge90]

I suspect most of Gerard's current scenes were intended for MJA.

I believe this to be the case. And that's based on more than a guess.

While I much prefer TMFAP as a character in Twin Peaks I'm happy for Al Strobel who hadn't acted in 16 years and only once in 25 years so kudos to him for getting the spotlight and delivering an awesome performance again.

[N. Needleman]

The thing is, Lynch has always had creative epiphanies based on sudden changes in circumstances or 'mistakes' - BOB was a 'mistake'. To me the evolution of the Arm is just one more such choice. I dig it.

[alreadygoneplaces]

The thing is, Lynch has always had creative epiphanies based on sudden changes in circumstances or 'mistakes' - BOB was a 'mistake'. To me the evolution of the Arm is just one more such choice. I dig it.

Yeah, I see that, and I dig it too.. but I guess the important part of what I was trying to say was that I'd personally rather not know about it. If they make Jefferies a bodiless entity, for instance, I'd still get behind it, but if I later read a script where there's lots of scenes with him, I'd be disappointed they didn't happen. And (at least as far as watching tv is concerned), what I don't know doesn't harm me.