Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:38 pm

claaa7 wrote:haha yeah i forgot about that one.. but i still found it interesting that all the live acts were performed and recorded on the same day and night. special invitation only... my favorite performance so far is without a doubt the Nine Inch Nails song, the way it was filmed, the energy of the song and the visuals, the crazy introduction, and the way it broke the mold by having it being an intermission in the actual episode.


Yeh, totally. I get why some people feel having these big acts is antithetical to the feel of the old show. But I love the fact that ther wase essentially a Woodstock-style concert on the Roadhouse set for one day. I hope there was some sort of documentation of the making-of that day; it would be a terrific Blu Ray feature!
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:08 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
claaa7 wrote:haha yeah i forgot about that one.. but i still found it interesting that all the live acts were performed and recorded on the same day and night. special invitation only... my favorite performance so far is without a doubt the Nine Inch Nails song, the way it was filmed, the energy of the song and the visuals, the crazy introduction, and the way it broke the mold by having it being an intermission in the actual episode.


Yeh, totally. I get why some people feel having these big acts is antithetical to the feel of the old show. But I love the fact that ther wase essentially a Woodstock-style concert on the Roadhouse set for one day. I hope there was some sort of documentation of the making-of that day; it would be a terrific Blu Ray feature!


I think since aging and the passing of time is such a big theme in this show, it's okay if it doesn't have the same timeless feel.
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nick1218
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:34 pm

homieonice wrote:Better Call Saul / Breaking Bad are slower than Twin Peaks S3


They episodes are 45 mins vs the full hour too. Less takes place. There is more "wasted" time - landscape shots, stuff that "could" be cut and wouldn't effect the story.


I strongly feel Lynch / Frost haven't wasted a minute, even a second yet. The non-dialogue driven parts are crucial to how this story is told.


People are very quick to criticize and there is a level of entitlement some ppl seem to have which is amusing.


baloney, we are not going to see Denise again and the sheriffs wife is a time waste
claaa7
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:03 am

rewatched this episode this morning for the first time in quite some time and i must say that it holds up as one of my favorite parts so far.

two observations:
* when Richard is driving his car into the open field to scrub of the blood we see that there is only trees around him but we clearly see the electrical pole from the Fat Trout reflected in his windshield. i really liked that and it gives some credence to all these reflections and glitches happening elsewhere.

* when MIKE/Gerard appears to Cooper he pleads with him to "Wake up" and "Don't die".. at the time of this episode airing i think we all took that to mean that he needs to wake up from the "Dougie" state. this time i read it as him urging Cooper to (wake up and) use his inituition to see the connections that indicated foul play on Sinclair's behalf in those case files.. had Cooper not been able to do that everything would have played out very differently and he would now be dead at the hands of the Mitchum brothers.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:14 am

claaa7 wrote:rewatched this episode this morning for the first time in quite some time and i must say that it holds up as one of my favorite parts so far.

two observations:
* when Richard is driving his car into the open field to scrub of the blood we see that there is only trees around him but we clearly see the electrical pole from the Fat Trout reflected in his windshield. i really liked that and it gives some credence to all these reflections and glitches happening elsewhere.

* when MIKE/Gerard appears to Cooper he pleads with him to "Wake up" and "Don't die".. at the time of this episode airing i think we all took that to mean that he needs to wake up from the "Dougie" state. this time i read it as him urging Cooper to (wake up and) use his inituition to see the connections that indicated foul play on Sinclair's behalf in those case files.. had Cooper not been able to do that everything would have played out very differently and he would now be dead at the hands of the Mitchum brothers.


Ooh, that's a good insight. I've been hanging on this moment, actually, as establishing a big rule for Cooper: The Good Coop loses if he dies before getting rid of Bad Coop. Later developments have had some podcasters and reviewers speculating he needs to die in this state to progress, but this statement seems to establish he needs to survive.

And your point here, on the "Wake up" actually having worked is interesting. Prior to that vision, Janey-E leaves Coop at the table with instructions to do his work but he doesn't open the folder or make any real action until after he sees Gerard. Then he seems to be slightly more aware, and opens the case files to look inside, something he was never specifically told how to do ("Review these" and "Do work" is just way too vague an instruction for him in this state) and something he hasn't done all day despite having these in his arms to look at.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:35 am

Continuing my rewatch....

The cut to the electric pole in conjunction with Richard is indeed interesting. I wonder if it hints at his lineage -- he is the physical human embodiment of Lodge malevolence.

This one really feels like the series settling into its quintessential groove: about a third of the time is spent in Twin Peaks on a sort of mini-movie that will have almost no follow-through in subsequent Parts, roughly a third is antics with Dougie and Bushnell and Janey-E in Vegas, there's a scene of the FBI crew, and random cutaways to scenes of Mr. C's scummy criminal network. This is also by far the least mythology-driven Part so far (and therefore the one where I have the least "unanswered question"-style comments so far). My only real question is who sends Duncan Todd the red square message. I suspect it's Mr. C, who can sense that DougieDale is still alive, and that the message is sent to him due to Mr. C calling (and destroying) the Buenos Aires black box (but maybe this is just wish fulfillment on my part/trying to make some sense of Argent 2).

So many phenomenal Dougie moments in this one. The look of boyish wonder when he stands in the elevator (although I still question the mechanics of why the doors keep opening), the smile of adoration when he hears Jade's name, the stern "make sense of it."

Dale making a fist when he sees the boxing poster is another hint at what I was speculating in my recent Part 5 post, that Coop has violence embedded deep in his soul. I really want to do a deeper analysis of this at some point.

Boy, that Lindholm/Stanton scene sure plays differently, huh? What a difference a few months makes. Actually, I'm pretty good at separating actors' terrible real-life actions from the performance, so Lindholm doesn't bother me too much. I was much more focused on HDS. "Waiting for the hammer to fall." "I've been smokin' every day for 75 fuckin' years." Man oh man. All his material was beautifully meta even back when he was alive, but now it tears me to shreds. The scene of the boy's soul (?) floating up is interesting now that I've learned that HDS was an atheist (or, at least, deeply agnostic). He plays it so sincerely and beautifully. And good God, his hair alone deserves a Best Supporting Actor Emmy.

It's interesting how certain Parts, or in some cases certain stretches of this "movie," seem to have their own leitmotifs. I mentioned earlier how Parts 3-4 seem to repeatedly hint at the old series motifs (owls, sycamores, Arthurian legend) before this is abandoned for the rest of the series (actually, I spoke too soon...we hear more of Vegas's Arthurian obsession in Part 6). This one has the mysterious green light we last saw in Part 5, which seems to replace the "portable Red Room" as Dale's new guiding light, and does double duty as the hit-and-run boy's "soul." We also have, I believe, the only two references to the Iraq/Afghanistan Wars as well as an unusually explicit Occupy call-out; an uncharacteristically high number of topical references for this series.

I really wish we'd seen more of Red. Getty's physicality in this one is so hysterically funny, so full of subtlety. It feels simultaneously gloriously spontaneous and meticulously choreographed. The weird judo punches, the hesitant alternating-hand gun motions. Terrific stuff. And I adore that establishing shot for the scene, with a log flume (?) seemingly going on forever. Does anyone know where/what that shot is?

I love that Miriam having just started school actually fits with the September date seen elsewhere. It gives me faith that the series timeline does fit together on some level.

There's a great piece of subtle L/F humor I missed on my first two viewings: when Phil & Dougie walk toward Bushnell's office, there is a woman handing a binder to a man (probably a client of Lucky 7). He opens it and says "This is empty!" and she reacts in embarrassed fashion.

I love the mood of the rainy Philadelphia night. Even inside the bar, the weather seems to be seeping in, coloring the joyful interactions we see as Albert skulks through on his mission. Diane also seems more sad here, as opposed to the angrier characterization she generally defaults to. I know it's a pain to shoot in rain, but I wish we'd gotten more moody weather, particularly in Twin Peaks/Washington State.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Cipher » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:01 am

Great thoughts from your revisit! Want to touch on a couple.

Mr. Reindeer wrote:So many phenomenal Dougie moments in this one. The look of boyish wonder when he stands in the elevator (although I still question the mechanics of why the doors keep opening), the smile of adoration when he hears Jade's name, the stern "make sense of it."

Dale making a fist when he sees the boxing poster is another hint at what I was speculating in my recent Part 5 post, that Coop has violence embedded deep in his soul. I really want to do a deeper analysis of this at some point.

The comment on violence here is really interesting, in light of the Cooper who emerges at the end of the series.

But, no love for the scene with him drawing? That was the moment the Dougie material really clicked for me; the meditative joy of watching a nascent human first experience some form of self-expression (even if he's being guided, he's leaving marks; he's creating). I recently moved to a new country, working in Japan, and as a language-learner that spoke to me in particular, as did most of the Dougie material. It's astounding powerful to find yourself stripped of, and then recapturing in small doses, methods of communication and expression.

The scene of the boy's soul (?) floating up is interesting now that I've learned that HDS was an atheist (or, at least, deeply agnostic). He plays it so sincerely and beautifully.

Not to tell you off for this, but I don't see why that should matter. I'm an atheist and the series' treatment of spirituality has never been anything less than completely resonant for me. It's never focused on religion explicitly; it invokes afterlife-related mythology for the emotionally loaded material it is. And yes, Stanton plays that scene beautifully.

I wish we'd seen more of Red too. I love that whole scene. Was he really a magic motherfucker? In the world of Twin Peaks, the answer is "possibly," but I guess we'll never actually know.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:17 am

To me the quintessential heart of this episode played out when Badalamenti's truly dramatic yet beautiful musical composition (Farewell Theme) filled the air. The bizar and absurd cruelty of this nonsensical universe climaxed at the point where a 75 years long chain smoking Mr Rodd witnessed the death of an innocent young boy in front of his mother.

Later it is revealed that this "Farewell Theme" is closely connected to the Giant/Fireman/??????? and we will hear it two more times, maybe more?
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:08 am

Cipher wrote:Not to tell you off for this, but I don't see why that should matter. I'm an atheist and the series' treatment of spirituality has never been anything less than completely resonant for me. It's never focused on religion explicitly; it invokes afterlife-related mythology for the emotionally loaded material it is. And yes, Stanton plays that scene beautifully.


I'm an atheist too, and I also found the scene touching! Didn't mean to imply that one had to be spiritual to find the scene moving, or to play the scene effectively (HDS could play almost anything convincingly!). I guess the scene particularly stood out to me because much of HDS's material in this show felt almost like he was playing himself (hard-smoking, folk singing), and I'd just learned about HDS's feelings about spiritual matters, so that moment stood in some contrast.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:10 am

Xavi wrote:Later it is revealed that this "Farewell Theme" is closely connected to the Giant/Fireman/??????? and we will hear it two more times, maybe more?


When does it play in connection with the Fireman? I remember it playing again when Margaret dies. But "The Fireman" in Part 8 is a totally separate composition.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Cipher » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:03 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:I'm an atheist too, and I also found the scene touching! Didn't mean to imply that one had to be spiritual to find the scene moving, or to play the scene effectively (HDS could play almost anything convincingly!). I guess the scene particularly stood out to me because much of HDS's material in this show felt almost like he was playing himself (hard-smoking, folk singing), and I'd just learned about HDS's feelings about spiritual matters, so that moment stood in some contrast.

Ah, no harm, no foul! Just wasn't sure how to interpret your earlier post.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:08 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Xavi wrote:Later it is revealed that this "Farewell Theme" is closely connected to the Giant/Fireman/??????? and we will hear it two more times, maybe more?


When does it play in connection with the Fireman? I remember it playing again when Margaret dies. But "The Fireman" in Part 8 is a totally separate composition.


yes, we hear it over Margaret's death and over Cooper's farewell to Janey-E and Sonny Jim.. i'd say it's more of a song embodying a feeling, of loss, and having to let go, than a song that's tied to any specific character.
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:34 am

for some reason i can't find the thread with connections between Season 3 and earlier David Lynch work but i thought this was pretty neat. especially as i felt the attention to the opposing shots of the open and closed hands were very pronounced in the scene where Red shows Richard the coin trick.

this is from the CD inlay to the Eraserhead soundtrack:

Image

Image
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:45 am

claaa7 wrote:for some reason i can't find the thread with connections between Season 3 and earlier David Lynch work but i thought this was pretty neat. especially as i felt the attention to the opposing shots of the open and closed hands were very pronounced in the scene where Red shows Richard the coin trick.

this is from the CD inlay to the Eraserhead soundtrack:

Image

Image


Bushnell also repeatedly opens and closes his fist in Part 9 when talking to Las Vegas PD!
claaa7
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Re: Part 6 - Don't die (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:11 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
claaa7 wrote:for some reason i can't find the thread with connections between Season 3 and earlier David Lynch work but i thought this was pretty neat. especially as i felt the attention to the opposing shots of the open and closed hands were very pronounced in the scene where Red shows Richard the coin trick.

this is from the CD inlay to the Eraserhead soundtrack:

Image

Image


Bushnell also repeatedly opens and closes his fist in Part 9 when talking to Las Vegas PD!


good point.. i remember some people connected Bushnell's moves there to Gordon/Lil's clues in FWWM (walking in place, acting belligerent, etc.).

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