Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

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LateReg
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:19 am

Ross wrote:
musicaddict wrote:
docLEXfisti wrote:Unfortunately SkyTicket took a day longer to put up the episode, so I just watched it now.

I
.) Tammy Preston is nice, wonder why so many people hate her - just because she's gorgeous? Y'know, there are gorgeous AND intelligent women out there.
.)

Why is anyone trying to make Tammy/Chrysta happen? Her acting is wooden and bad and not in the she-was-directed-by-David-Lynch-to-act-that-way kind of way. Sorry she is just plain terrible and distracting in every scene.

I'm not a big fan so far. But I especially find it odd how they keep trying to say how beautiful she is. Is she? I mean she's not un-attractive, but there have been so many beautiful women on TP.


The way Lynch directs her to walk and the mentions of her beauty and the conversation with Denise all point to this being a part of the larger thematic tapestry, both meta and within the story itself. We'll see where it goes.
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Agent Sam Stanley
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:28 am

Ross wrote:
musicaddict wrote:
docLEXfisti wrote:Unfortunately SkyTicket took a day longer to put up the episode, so I just watched it now.

I
.) Tammy Preston is nice, wonder why so many people hate her - just because she's gorgeous? Y'know, there are gorgeous AND intelligent women out there.
.)

Why is anyone trying to make Tammy/Chrysta happen? Her acting is wooden and bad and not in the she-was-directed-by-David-Lynch-to-act-that-way kind of way. Sorry she is just plain terrible and distracting in every scene.

I'm not a big fan so far. But I especially find it odd how they keep trying to say how beautiful she is. Is she?


IMHO she is but that's me.
And I'm fine with her acting so far.
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:28 am

LateReg wrote:
Ross wrote:
musicaddict wrote:Why is anyone trying to make Tammy/Chrysta happen? Her acting is wooden and bad and not in the she-was-directed-by-David-Lynch-to-act-that-way kind of way. Sorry she is just plain terrible and distracting in every scene.

I'm not a big fan so far. But I especially find it odd how they keep trying to say how beautiful she is. Is she? I mean she's not un-attractive, but there have been so many beautiful women on TP.


The way Lynch directs her to walk and the mentions of her beauty and the conversation with Denise all point to this being a part of the larger thematic tapestry, both meta and within the story itself. We'll see where it goes.


Personally, I read her as a nerdy woman who's unaware just how sexual her movements seem to men. (I've known girls like this, I was a girl like this when I was younger.) She's just going about her life, walking that way maybe because she's seen women walk that way in movies and such, dressing that way because she believes its professional and flattering and doesn't realize that her shape alone is like that. And it's exaggerated, because its a Lynch movie, but she seems so oblivious to it I'd bet she's asexual. Its actually pretty funny to me.

Where you guys are getting distracted, I'm laughing my butt off at how she has no idea that her walk is an exaggerated silly sexy woman walk and not a professional intimidation walk.
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Nighthawk
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Nighthawk » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:34 am

DeepBlueSeed wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:. Why is she so angry at virtually everyone? Her history with bad coop likely contributed to her distrustful a


I have the feeling that she was raped by badCooper, told Gordon and he didn't believe her due to his friendship with Coop.


I agree that I would be a result of events that happened when she last met Cooper, but I wouldn't be surprised if she told no-one, because she didn't feel he could trust anyone she previously trusted (or that anyone would believe Cooper would do such a thing). 25 years of keeping that secret to herself, drowning it out with alcohol and, potentially, a string of meaningless relationships, would be a great reason to grow resentful and bitter of her previous employers and work colleagues.

This may also be why, once she learns he is in prison and that they're suspicious of him, that she agrees to go with them. I think that also, once she overhears the discussion on the plane and considers that 'Cooper' is not who is seems, and realises that those 25 years of bottling up her hatred of a man she once admired are now revealed to be based on a lie, she finally feels able to break down and face that trauma with Cole, knowing that he is already suspicious of this imposter. I think, up until this point, the anger has been one of several methods she has used to stop people she once trusted getting too close.


I think that is close to the truth. We have to wonder though, what was it that made her not recognize Cooper as a doppelganger years before, when he presumably raped/assaulted her. Cooper must have been someone she trusted, and the trust was mutual, as evidenced by Cooper's recordings in the original series. The good Dale entrusted Diane with most of his intimate thoughts, not all perhaps, but far more than would be shared with a mere acquaintance or a work colleague. Diane has changed her mind about Cooper and the FBI (especially) in the 20+ year interval between then and today. What happened? How did the doppelganger manage to fool her, given that she would have none of his cr*p today?
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby bosguy1981 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:38 am

Hester Prynne wrote:
What's the big round thing close to the cake dish on the counter? In one scene it's white. In the other it's red.


I think it's just that in the second picture, Heidi is standing in front of that thing and wearing a red sweater so you're seeing it reflecting the color of her clothes.

In the first shot, Heidi is not standing behind the counter at all.
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:42 am

Leebob wrote:
The Grey Lodge wrote:All thematic and narrative signs point to BadCoop having raped Diane and it was pretty blatant as far as I'm concerned. ...


I am perhaps being naïve, but I did not read this the same and am a bit taken aback by how many folks are quick to draw a conclusion of rape/assault. I am equally taken aback by those concluding that BadCoop raped a comatose Audrey...

My initial reaction re: the last meeting of Diane and (the real) Agent Cooper was that perhaps Diane bared her soul and professed her true feelings of love for Dale and "threw herself at him" and Dale (ever the professional) declined the offer. In that scenario, the current day Diane would look back on it as a humiliating experience and the current day Cooper would be highly unlikely to state coldly that "he remembers it well".


I think it's still possible he was just there after the ring. I mean, the Owl Cave ring was last seen in missing pieces taken by a nurse. Maybe she wasn't there, and he spent the time left in TP hunting down the ring. Maj. Briggs may have gotten to it first, and realizing that this wasn't the real Coop, swallowed it to hide it. The wedding ring could be in his stomach because the only way BadCoop could get that ring back was some weird switching effect.

That said, I'm not ruling out the mess with Audrey. It's a possibility until we get the origin of Richard Horne confirmed. I will say, Richard is not terribly impressive if he's a Black Lodge Doppelganger's or honestly ANY version of Cooper's kid. He's way lower on the food chain that I'd imagine a Cooper to be. (Sonny Jim is like 8, and he seems to have inherited some of Cooper's nature and powers despite being another doppelganger's son.)

I could easily see that being what went on with Diane, too. Again not ruling out the worst, but again I think BadCoop is sufficiently horrifying because she knew Dale without having to actually have interacted with him. I can see her and Coop THINKING they could stay on as friends, but his disappearance coupled with the fact that his last few tapes must've mentioned Annie a few times could have turned that to bitterness on her part. Its interesting that people are reading these scenes either way, though. I think the possibility is supposed to at least be in our minds.

Another consideration, though. Cooper's strongest connections weren't JUST to women. He bonded well with women, but he had some very strong friendships with men as well. If BadCoop went out of his way to sour the relationships with Diane and Audrey, why not Harry? Why not Gordon? Why only ever contact Albert THROUGH Jeffries? The only explanation is that he can't properly impersonate Dale and he learned that from Doc and Harry. So approaching Gordon, Albert or Diane, or spending too much time in Twin Peaks is a SERIOUS risk for him. He took out Major Briggs, who with his White Lodge connection was probably the only big threat, but aside from being at the hospital her avoided contact with anyone who could spot him as a fake. That makes it unlikely he approached Diane in person.

The tape idea, though, works, and long-distance stalking, harassment, obscene phone calls and messages and such can be a form of sexual abuse. It'd be interesting to see that brought up as part of BOB's range of attacks.
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PeteMartell
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby PeteMartell » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:46 am

asquideatingdough wrote:
RainingPostToasties wrote:

I loved Gordon's whistling. Was he whistling something from the Wizard of Oz? Sounded strangely familiar.


I'm pretty sure it was a Strauss Waltz. Same one used by Kubrick during the moon scene in 2001.
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby rocketsan22 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:47 am

The noise at the Great Northern is Johnny Horne.
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PeteMartell
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby PeteMartell » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:00 am

So now that evil coop has been busted out of jail, I'm wondering what you think his next moves might be? Where is he headed? Buenos Aires so he can connect with Phillip Jefferies and (not) talk to him about Judy? Or back to twin peaks?
LateReg
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:04 am

Ragnell wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Ross wrote:I'm not a big fan so far. But I especially find it odd how they keep trying to say how beautiful she is. Is she? I mean she's not un-attractive, but there have been so many beautiful women on TP.


The way Lynch directs her to walk and the mentions of her beauty and the conversation with Denise all point to this being a part of the larger thematic tapestry, both meta and within the story itself. We'll see where it goes.


Personally, I read her as a nerdy woman who's unaware just how sexual her movements seem to men. (I've known girls like this, I was a girl like this when I was younger.) She's just going about her life, walking that way maybe because she's seen women walk that way in movies and such, dressing that way because she believes its professional and flattering and doesn't realize that her shape alone is like that. And it's exaggerated, because its a Lynch movie, but she seems so oblivious to it I'd bet she's asexual. Its actually pretty funny to me.

Where you guys are getting distracted, I'm laughing my butt off at how she has no idea that her walk is an exaggerated silly sexy woman walk and not a professional intimidation walk.


Yeah, if anything I think it's made in part to make you question how we look at certain women based on appearance, something that many can't help. She looks the way she looks, walks the way she walks, and lo and behold, she can also be a serious FBI Agent!
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Hockey Mask
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Hockey Mask » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:05 am

Nighthawk wrote:
DeepBlueSeed wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
I have the feeling that she was raped by badCooper, told Gordon and he didn't believe her due to his friendship with Coop.


I agree that I would be a result of events that happened when she last met Cooper, but I wouldn't be surprised if she told no-one, because she didn't feel he could trust anyone she previously trusted (or that anyone would believe Cooper would do such a thing). 25 years of keeping that secret to herself, drowning it out with alcohol and, potentially, a string of meaningless relationships, would be a great reason to grow resentful and bitter of her previous employers and work colleagues.

This may also be why, once she learns he is in prison and that they're suspicious of him, that she agrees to go with them. I think that also, once she overhears the discussion on the plane and considers that 'Cooper' is not who is seems, and realises that those 25 years of bottling up her hatred of a man she once admired are now revealed to be based on a lie, she finally feels able to break down and face that trauma with Cole, knowing that he is already suspicious of this imposter. I think, up until this point, the anger has been one of several methods she has used to stop people she once trusted getting too close.


I think that is close to the truth. We have to wonder though, what was it that made her not recognize Cooper as a doppelganger years before, when he presumably raped/assaulted her. Cooper must have been someone she trusted, and the trust was mutual, as evidenced by Cooper's recordings in the original series. The good Dale entrusted Diane with most of his intimate thoughts, not all perhaps, but far more than would be shared with a mere acquaintance or a work colleague. Diane has changed her mind about Cooper and the FBI (especially) in the 20+ year interval between then and today. What happened? How did the doppelganger manage to fool her, given that she would have none of his cr*p today?

Harry didn't notice either in S2. In fact, the audience didn't know either for those few minutes. Maybe he has progressively gotten worse.
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby pinballmars » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:10 am

PeteMartell wrote:So now that evil coop has been busted out of jail, I'm wondering what you think his next moves might be? Where is he headed? Buenos Aires so he can connect with Phillip Jefferies and (not) talk to him about Judy? Or back to twin peaks?


He's meeting up with Jennifer Jason Leigh and her husband. I don't remember if they said where exactly.
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DeepBlueSeed
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:12 am

dronerstone wrote:
beyondthesea wrote:
I'm fairly sure Badcoop raped Diane. I'm not sure what else he could have done that has seemingly been the cause for her to be the way she is.



Make her fall in love and show his love for her too - and then totally ghost on her like today's kids do.

I guess rape woulda been even worse - and she seems to just be like "do you remember that night?"
If there was rape involved, I guess she wouldn't be able to confront him like that.

Plus, her repeated use of "FUCK YOu" to whomever she crosses, says a lot. She probably felt Coop said "fuck you" to her after he quit sending tapes from Twin Peaks and never ever got back to her.


I don't know. I feel the repeated use of "Fuck you" implies a hell of a lot worse. If someone pisses you off you don't then, for 25 years, give everyone who used to be mutual work colleagues the finger. You're more likely to find friends amongst them, saying "Man, I can't believe Coop did that, I never figured he'd be such a fucking jerk." No, this was something that she felt she couldn't speak to anyone about for 25 years. And, okay, whilst that night at her place might have begun as a romantic liaison, I definitely think he crossed a line, one that made her put up all sorts of walls.

I totally think she could confront Bad Coop the way she does given that situation. She's been promised complete control over the situation by Cole. He's behind glass. It's not entirely dissimilar to when a rape victim has to face their attacker in court - they're put in a position where their attacker is not in control, and where they can walk away if it gets too much. Alas we know that Bad Coop has a way of gaining control of most situations.
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookyDollhouse » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:22 am

The "problem" with Tammy is she isn't acting how ppl expected nor wanted so she's bad. Kinda like how FWWM wasn't what fans expected nor wanted so it was bad. That's just my two cents because there's nothing about her that I feel would honestly gain such a negative response. I just don't get it!
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Denise's Pieces » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:26 am

SpookyDollhouse wrote:The "problem" with Tammy is she isn't acting how ppl expected nor wanted so she's bad. Kinda like how FWWM wasn't what fans expected nor wanted so it was bad. That's just my two cents because there's nothing about her that I feel would honestly gain such a negative response. I just don't get it!

I love that I don't have any wants or expectations from the show. I'm just along for the ride and will go wherever Lynch and Frost decide to take me.

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