Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

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NewShoes
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby NewShoes » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:29 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:
NewShoes wrote:Have we talked about the jet windows mystery yet? I see lots of twitter and facebook chatter about it. I failed to notice it on first viewing because I was distracted trying to figure out which mountain it was (thought it might be Rainier, which didn't make sense geographically to me).

More interesting...and stranger...the original footage was found on YouTube...it doesn't have the window weirdness...and it turns out to be taken from a sales add for the airplane...


I admit I will never care about such secretive/complex mysteries like that, if it truly is one. I'm lazy, I'll just wait for the show to tell me LOL.

That being said, isn't it possible they simply added some light reflection in post to make the shot look cooler/stand out?


Yes, that's a common question. Converting the footage into photo negative reveals deliberate digital tampering. I could understand it if the goal was just to have fewer windows on the plane. But continually changing the number of windows doesn't make sense.
Last edited by NewShoes on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:32 pm

djsunyc wrote:
Cappy wrote:I hope that Bobby and Shelly are separated, and that Bobby is out to prove to Shelly that he's a responsible and level headed person now. It'd give his character a quest. Although I'm sure he'll get pulled into the mess with his dad's headless body in South Dakota at some point.

I am probably in the minority on this, but I'd like to see James pursue Shelly's friend from the Roadhouse. Just because I'm curious what his character is like now, and to see if he still plays guitar. His character was so sad on the original, it'd be nice to see him get something of a happy ending.


considering shelly is probably screwing baltazar's ghetty's character, it seems like she's the one that needs to "grow up".


...Whoa. If she's single, she can bang bang (pun intended) whomever she wants!
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Robin Davies » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:35 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:...Whoa. If she's single, she can bang bang (pun intended) whomever she wants!
But after Leo Johnson you'd think she wouldn't shack up with another psycho!
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby secretlettermkr » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:38 pm

DeepBlueSeed wrote:

Hah! "Obviously". It's not like that simple descending arrangement of notes could coincidentally sound similar.

I'm inclined to go with a little from column a, a little from column b. If Lynch genuinely only meant one of those then it's a happy coincidence, Amarcord for being about memory, and Engel for a video featuring something not entirely unlike the picture behind him in its video.


fair enough! :wink:
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby thedarktrees » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:52 pm

This must have been asked before: now that we seem to have two different possible murders of Garland Briggs (the original “fire”, and the present-day decapitated body confirmed as Briggs in Part 7), are either one of these the murders at which the Dossier from TSHOTP is found?
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby madeleineferguson » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:40 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:I wonder if that farmer's last name is Blodgett?


That would be a nice touch!

OK, so... the Briggs body found in Ruth Davenport's apartment must be Briggs' doppelgänger. Right? I never thought of Briggs as overweight, his doppelgänger seems to have been a much bigger man. Briggs was stout, sure, but not obese.

Also, just who in the hell are Tom and Beverly Paige anyway? Do they have any real connection to the main story?
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:41 pm

thedarktrees wrote:This must have been asked before: now that we seem to have two different possible murders of Garland Briggs (the original “fire”, and the present-day decapitated body confirmed as Briggs in Part 7), are either one of these the murders at which the Dossier from TSHOTP is found?


I bet this decapitated one might be Briggs' doppelganger somehow? But yes, I'm betting the dossier shows up soon!
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:59 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
Cappy wrote:I hope that Bobby and Shelly are separated, and that Bobby is out to prove to Shelly that he's a responsible and level headed person now. It'd give his character a quest. Although I'm sure he'll get pulled into the mess with his dad's headless body in South Dakota at some point.

I am probably in the minority on this, but I'd like to see James pursue Shelly's friend from the Roadhouse. Just because I'm curious what his character is like now, and to see if he still plays guitar. His character was so sad on the original, it'd be nice to see him get something of a happy ending.


considering shelly is probably screwing baltazar's ghetty's character, it seems like she's the one that needs to "grow up".


...Whoa. If she's single, she can bang bang (pun intended) whomever she wants!


Yeah, if Shelly and Bobby have broken up, it'd be because he's gotten his life together and she hasn't fixed her terrible taste in men. Bobby's a decent person at heart and I think he's turned out okay as his father predicted, but he was a little delinquent when she got with him. After having married Leo. And now she's flirting with Red. She has tragically bad taste in men.

But that would make it more interesting if they're still together, though, rather than broken up. If Bobby's become a responsible adult and father, and she's feeling a little dissatisfied and attracted to the latest scumbag with a handsome face.

What I want to see with James, actually, is a scene with him and Bobby. They were bitter enemies in the original show, but if Bobby's turned his life around it'd say a lot if he was friendly with James now. And maybe that's why Shelly knows and likes James.
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookyDollhouse » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:05 pm

madeleineferguson wrote:
Jerry Horne wrote:I wonder if that farmer's last name is Blodgett?


That would be a nice touch!

OK, so... the Briggs body found in Ruth Davenport's apartment must be Briggs' doppelgänger. Right? I never thought of Briggs as overweight, his doppelgänger seems to have been a much bigger man. Briggs was stout, sure, but not obese.

Also, just who in the hell are Tom and Beverly Paige anyway? Do they have any real connection to the main story?


Dead bodies bloat. I'm thinkin he's been dead for a long time by the look of the body, but like his age something really fishy is going on.
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:12 pm

Although there's pretty much nothing I want/expect from this series, I love Big Ed & Norma as a couple. To me, their decades-long chaste love affair is powerful, and the actors have incredible chemistry, even if their storyline often felt too soapy in its execution. I'd love to see more of that relationship; it feels very believable that they still have feelings for each other another 25 years later, and TMP proved that there's a far stronger, more poignant way to execute their scenes than the way the original show often did. So, I guess what I'm saying is, I can understand how the Bobby & Shelly fans feel. And if you feel that way about them as a couple, then of course having them still be together would not be fan service.

For me, though, they always felt like two kids playing house. Shelly had a maturity that belied her age, for sure (poor taste in men aside), but Bobby was often lousy to her (briefly walking out on her and leaving her with Leo when he's the one who convinced her to buy into the insurance scam in the first place; contemplating an affair with Audrey; and the supremely shitty moment he tells her he has better things to do, but she doesn't). Typical teenager behavior? Sure. But that's precisely my point: they were two seventeen-year-olds in a shaky relationship. Did I think they were sometimes adorable together? Absolutely -- I get a huge smile just thinking about that hair-grabbing / barking thing DKL has them do in Episode 8 and Episode 29. But to me, they never felt like a couple that was going to go the distance. YMMV, of course, and I hope I didn't insult anyone's POV.
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:24 pm

Such a great episode. Although straightforward and less quirky and than the previous installments, there was a major delivery on all the setup leading up to it, and it engaged in all the right ways. For those who've become used to the fact that Cooper is not going to snap out of it overnight, this was possibly the most satisfying unfolding so far. Some of the best Twin Peaks has ever had to offer, in any case.


djsunyc wrote:i almost thought the sick guy was going to be harry.

Same here! (Even though I was under the impression that he's far off where he can get the best treatment available.)


djsunyc wrote:did i hear doc hayward right and that audrey was in a coma from the bank explosion?

Yes, and it makes perfect sense.


Rudagger wrote:More Dougie still, but the attack was great! At this point not gonna guess if when he becomes Coop again (I thought he might be drawing the owl cave map this time but who knows).

I'm taking that approach too. We all miss the good ol' Coop but there's a story being told here, and a reason for everything that's happening.


Rudagger wrote:I think I'm officially crossing Ontkean off the list. If there was gonna be a one scene cameo, it would've been him being asked about Coop. At least Harry isn't forgotten, but it feels very awkward with the one sided phone calls.

Well, it may be the nail in the coffin, but it could also be an incredible tease. I'm still holding on to some hope!


psyifinotic wrote:guys. the jerry horne scene was hilarious.

I think that a single line of dialogue really undermined the scene, which is a shame. A guy who smokes weed all the time doesn't say, "I think I'm high!" That's terribly unrealistic. I mean, come on, he's always high! The line should have been, "I'm trippin'" or something implying he ate a few too many edibles, you know, something like that -- anything to imply that he's beyond his tolerance and got way too stoned.


Ross wrote:Also not sure Leland having them makes sense.

It's just something that Hawk theorized, not necessarily what happened.


Agent327 wrote:Didn't it bother anybody that Gordon Cole got Bad Coop's sentence wrong?

I am not sure that he was quoting as much as paraphrasing, merely trying to demonstrate the importance of the misspoken word in relation to its placement in the sentence.


Rhodes wrote:Still, it is substantially less than the 18 hours that were promised.

What if the final episode is the length of a feature film, bringing the total running time to 18 hours?


Denise's Pieces wrote:I don't think that Ray is going to be alive much longer.

I said the same thing when they met in the hallway, but after thinking about it some, I'm guessing that the Doppelganger wants to find out who hired Ray and Darya, and having Ray alive is the best way to "coerce" that information from him in order to reveal the source.


docLEXfisti wrote:Boopers escape: why is Ray smiling and looking happy? He will be dead soon...

He must think that he's being rescued!
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:26 pm

Cappy wrote:Now that we've finally met Cooper's Diane, what are the chances we'll meet Hawk's Diane? As in Diane Shapiro, PhD, Brandeis University.

I think about the same as seeing Jacoby's wife again...
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby The Brown Lodge » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:49 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Nighthawk wrote:BTW... Dougie was a shady character himself before "good" Cooper essentially took over his body. He was a compulsive gambler, spending money on prostitutes while he had a beautiful wife and a son in need of him at home.


I think the Mad Men parallels in Dougie's world that I and others have noted (exact same painting in office, Heisman-type trophy behind Bushenell's desk, the MM-ness of the "Bill Shaker of Allied Chemicals" character) are important to the equation in figuring out who Dougie is and what he means. Let me digress a bit before circling back to this.

In the Part 6 review on his blog, Lost in the Movies fascinatingly pointed out a moment in The Art Life where DKL rather existentially says he doesn't know what would have happened if he hadn't gotten the call to come on board at AFI, and Lost relates this to DougieCoop's existential displacement. The more I think about this, the more fascinating it becomes.

As we learn in MLMT, Coop dreamed of being in the FBI since he was a young boy. I would bet that many of us here on this board had dreams of working some sort of law enforcement jobs (for me, it was a private investigator -- like Mr. Frost, I loved Sherlock Holmes). Kids dream of adventurous lives where they can solve mysteries. (See Sonny Jim reading the Hardy Boys -- also a childhood favorite of mine.) However, most of us grow up and realize we're not cut out for such work, or that the particular job/life we imagined as kids doesn't actually exist except in books/movies.

Coop, in the original show, gets to live the dream most of us wished for. He's a handsome, charming FBI agent, beloved by all, who gets to go interesting places and solve fascinating crimes, K.O.ing the bad guys and saving the day with his intellect and physical finesse in a world of clearly-delineated good and evil. He fulfilled his childhood fantasy.

Most of us don't, however. Most of us drop our childhood dreams and take a job that we may find some satisfaction in, but probably wouldn't even be our second or third pick if we truly had our druthers. We settle down, and attempt to find purpose in starting a family, raising children, passing the torch. For many people, that's enough, and the childhood dreams of adventure and excitement sleep dormant as happy memories occasionally revisited. Others aren't so lucky, and they become unsettled, disenchanted, desperate for escape. Cue the "displaced male with existential malaise" trope that has become the focus of much of the most acclaimed prestige drama from the Sopranos on. I think Dougie (the original Dougie) is implied to be very much a Don Draper-type character: someone who never grew past his childish self-centered dreams, who was dissatisfied with his family and mid-level corporate job and was probably depressed (I assumed that Dr. Ben is some sort of psychiatrist/psychologist Dougie sees), and who was desperate for escape. In other words, an alternate version of Cooper, one who didn't get to live the proverbial dream.

Now the real Coop has been stripped of everything and slotted into this man's life: essentially, forced to live like the rest of us, or like an alternate-reality DKL whose film career didn't take off. He's a child, obsessed with badges and guns, but living in an adult world working a desk job and raising a kid. Give this guy a dwarf coming at him with a gun and everything makes sense: he knows EXACTLY what to do! Throw in a talking braintree? All the better -- finally, something logical! But the rest of the time, he's a child, completely unable to comprehend this dull reality of fluorescent lights, elevators, minor office intrigue, and terrible cars. I think he's going to have to learn to come to terms with living in this reality, with living the life most of us have, before earning the right to go back to his old life of purpose and adventure.

Most of us assumed this season would be about Coop confronting the evil side of himself via DoppelCoop. But what we've gotten is a far more complex deconstruction of identity at a core level, before we can even begin to approach the more straightforward question of "good vs. evil." I'm sure I'm not close to fully comprehending it, but I'm so intrigued to see where it goes.


interesting
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby LiAnn » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:30 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Although there's pretty much nothing I want/expect from this series, I love Big Ed & Norma as a couple. To me, their decades-long chaste love affair is powerful, and the actors have incredible chemistry, even if their storyline often felt too soapy in its execution. I'd love to see more of that relationship; it feels very believable that they still have feelings for each other another 25 years later, and TMP proved that there's a far stronger, more poignant way to execute their scenes than the way the original show often did. So, I guess what I'm saying is, I can understand how the Bobby & Shelly fans feel. And if you feel that way about them as a couple, then of course having them still be together would not be fan service.

For me, though, they always felt like two kids playing house. Shelly had a maturity that belied her age, for sure (poor taste in men aside), but Bobby was often lousy to her (briefly walking out on her and leaving her with Leo when he's the one who convinced her to buy into the insurance scam in the first place; contemplating an affair with Audrey; and the supremely shitty moment he tells her he has better things to do, but she doesn't). Typical teenager behavior? Sure. But that's precisely my point: they were two seventeen-year-olds in a shaky relationship. Did I think they were sometimes adorable together? Absolutely -- I get a huge smile just thinking about that hair-grabbing / barking thing DKL has them do in Episode 8 and Episode 29. But to me, they never felt like a couple that was going to go the distance. YMMV, of course, and I hope I didn't insult anyone's POV.


Not at all! I love discussing these types of things.

Ed and Norma's love story is truly heartbreaking, and I agree that their scene in TMP is one of the best romantic scenes David Lynch has ever directed. Clearly, they're not together anymore (were they ever?), but I'll bet they still have feelings for each other. After all, as you said, they've been in love since they were teenagers; I don't think another twenty-five years is going to change that. Hopefully, we'll get some good scenes between Everett McGill and Peggy Lipton this time around, and maybe the Ed/Norma/Nadine love triangle will finally get the ending it deserves. Then again, maybe not. I trust David Lynch and Mark Frost to do what's best for the series, even though I may not always like it.

I can totally see where you're coming from vis-a-vis Bobby and Shelly. On one hand, they were a couple of teenagers playing house and cooking up schemes; on the other hand, it really did seem -- to me, at least -- like they were in love. Not that they loved each other like most teenage couples do, but that they were actually in love. Does that mean they should still be together? No, I suppose not. But I really would like them to have some sort of meaningful relationship this season. I think it would be both realistic and emotionally satisfying if Becky were Bobby's daughter, but he and Shelly are no longer together (probably for the reasons you mentioned).
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Re: Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

Postby Normonaut » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:34 pm

Does the discovery of the dossier predate The Return? Has TP already done her work on it?
That was my assumption before The Return started, but I'm not so sure.
I've been looking for a dossier in every crime scene/scene of crime we've seen so far.
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