Part 7 - There's a body all right (SPOILERS)

[baxter]

hmmm, sounds plausible. I'm struggling to keep track of time in the episodes so far though. I guess we know that Bad Coop has been in prison for a few days only, so that sets a timescale.

[Xavi]

They don't know specifically what happened, but they're also not completely oblivious. They knew Diane extremely well before and after the incident. We don't know yet the chain of events (I have my thoughts, as laid out above--but, of course, I could be dead wrong), but we do know that they witnessed this change in Diane and it's very strongly implied that they've long known it had something to do with Coop.

At this point in the story, all that really matters are the emotional connections between these characters. What seems totally clear to me is that there is tremendous love between Diane and Gordon and Albert. She's family--estranged family, but family none the less. Everything else builds on that foundation.

Also was it specified, when exactly did Diane leave FBI ?

No. It could have been more recent, but all signs point to 25 years ago.

I absolutely agree with your version of Diane's possible story, affair, romance with Cooper (the bad one). This platina-blond Diane exhibits the same behaviour as the Foul Mouthed Whore in INLAND EMPIRE; where she climbed those fucking stairs to meet a guy called Mr K at the se7enth floor. In each word, in every tiny move of her smallest single muscle I could "see" right through her anger, through her curses and through her lies and feel her pain. O yes, she was or felt used and abused, and she was trying to confess her heinous deeds, albeit failed again and again. "Strange what love does. So strange."

Now, this Diane acts completely according a "victim of love." She drinks, to forget. She curses, out of lost faith in humanity. She shows coldness, where a warm heart remains hidden. Above all, it is her way of preserving her innocence. Probably Albert and Gordon didn't listen very well 25 years ago, to the signs that Diane conveyed about some very yrev traumatic night with Cooper, the bad one. But Gordon is trying to remember and he seems more open and awakened and this time he might really listen to her story.

What a haunting TV-series TP is.

BTW. Episode 7 with the title "There is a body all right." to me feels like "something is still missing." First we have only 3 out of 4 missing pages from Laura's diary. And we missed the band in the Bang Bang Bar; the recording started late (inside joke?) - for 2 minutes we watch someone sweeping the floor that was loaded with cig butts on the rhythm of Sleep Walk, which progressed in a scene in the Double RR where time jumped in a messy way. 2 minutes? Is that about the average time a band performs in an episode?

[counterpaul]

hmmm, sounds plausible. I'm struggling to keep track of time in the episodes so far though. I guess we know that Bad Coop has been in prison for a few days only, so that sets a timescale.

I think the timeline here is pretty on-target:

http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3555

There's a little bit of ambiguity before the big day when Coop appears in Vegas and COOPER gets arrested, but from there the timeline is quite straightforward. Just follow Coop in Vegas (he appears in Rancho Rosa, gets dropped off at the casino, then driven to Dougie's house one day; the second day he gets up and goes to Dougie's workplace, gets the case files; and the third day he goes back to work, drops off the case files and then gets attacked).

Similarly, COOPER gets arrested one day; the next day Gordon, Albert and Tammy interview him; and the third day Diane interviews him and he's out at 1am that night.

[DeepBlueSeed]

I hope that Bobby and Shelly are separated, and that Bobby is out to prove to Shelly that he's a responsible and level headed person now. It'd give his character a quest. Although I'm sure he'll get pulled into the mess with his dad's headless body in South Dakota at some point.

I am probably in the minority on this, but I'd like to see James pursue Shelly's friend from the Roadhouse. Just because I'm curious what his character is like now, and to see if he still plays guitar. His character was so sad on the original, it'd be nice to see him get something of a happy ending.

considering shelly is probably screwing baltazar's ghetty's character, it seems like she's the one that needs to "grow up".

I felt like, as he's new to town, just getting the lay of the land and checking out the local suppliers, he's probably only just taken a shine to Shelly, and there's not been enough time for a relationship. But then she does seem to be drawn to these unsavoury types.

[DeepBlueSeed]

Does the discovery of the dossier predate The Return? Has TP already done her work on it?
That was my assumption before The Return started, but I'm not so sure.
I've been looking for a dossier in every crime scene/scene of crime we've seen so far.

Have we had it definitely confirmed that Agent TP is Tammy Preston? I just started reading Secret History recently, and the redacted signature of Agent TP does not look like the name it is blocking out is Tammy Preston. Granted, that could just be a continuity error. But it could also explain why the on-screen character doesn't seem to know too much about the history of the case.

[DeepBlueSeed]

What do people make of the dog legs? Aside from why the hell you'd use dog legs, who is it that could somehow make bad things happen to the warden if something bad happens to Bad Coop?

There are a few villainous types that have appeared so far, that Bad Coop might have a more traditional working relationship given 25 years have passed, but the dog legs suggests something a little weirder. Perhaps other allies from the Black Lodge (or some other place)?

I guess, or a related note, we've seen envelopes delivered marked with black dots, and red squares appearing on computer screens. These 'correspondences' feel a bit more 'civilised', if still unconventional, and it doesn't seem that these would be directly via Bad Coop (but possibly by someone working for, or with him, if not someone completely unconnected).

Here's how I interpreted this. Mr. C killed the Warden's dog "Mr. Strawberry." He kept one of the legs with his contraband (drugs and gun) and sent the other three legs to associates, along with documentation incriminating to the Warden. The leg he kept is now in evidence. If something happens to him under the Warden's control (i.e. he gets wacked), one or more of his associates will emerge with the incriminating information along with a dog leg that can be DNA matched to the one in evidence. Apparently, this would now implicate the warden in Mr. C's demise, along with whatever else he is guilty of. Not sure how this would all work, but it appears that it was sufficient to cause the warden to comply with Mr. C's demands.

That's the most plausible answer I've heard, but then dog leg messaging isn't really plausible.

[DeepBlueSeed]

But she doesn't just go "fuck you" to former coworkers/acquaintances as a little quirk. She is genuinely pissed off and acts infinitely colder than any sane person. Think about how scandalously she behaves. It is not close to normal. Not even letting Albert talk to her when he came all the way to see her. Telling random innocent people she doesn't know at all, like Tammy, to go fuck herself too.
If she got burned or neglected in some way by good Coop, romantically or otherwise, saying 'good' wouldn't be a leap at all for a person with the traits she has exhibited.

When Diane is informed that Cooper is in jail, she thinks about it for a while, then says "....good.", a reaction consistent with the rest of her appalling behavior, and notice that her saying that doesn't even surprise Gordon. If this was so different from the rest of her behavior as you say, why wouldn't Gorden or Albert be extremely surprised by it?
Instead, these people who know her well, interpret it as just 'Diane being Diane'. Gordon even notes in the same scene, in relation to another cold remark from her that she has always been that way, so her behavior is not the result of assault by bad Coop.

Also, If you are raped by a coworker, an FBI agent no less, why wouldn't you report it? She'd be partly RESPONSIBLE next time he rapes another random woman or a coworker.
This would be irredeemable for the character of Diane, on top of her disgusting behavior so far (Not sure why fans on the board love her, other than 'it's Diane!')
Additionally, not reporting a rape, yet wanting him to end up in jail makes no sense.

I just don't understand why so many people want to assume that she was raped by bad Coop, without being able to present a clear case.
She could easily have been pissed off by good Coop in some way, especially considering how cold and hostile she is by default, and was back then too according to Cole.
Yet for the assault/rape theory to be true, there are so many factors working against it that it would be pretty bad writing so far if it turned out to actually be true.

I find her attitude pretty consistent with people who've been raped. Many of them feel guilty, or ashamed, or some way responsible, rather than the rapist having committed a crime. Some of them simply think they won't be believed. Would you believe Dale Cooper capable of rape? The opening lines of your argument, that saying "fuck you" is not a little quirk and shows she is genuinely pissed off is, for me, one of the signposts to her having been abused some way. Being told he is in prison, pausing, and then saying "good" in such a cold manner strikes me as someone who feels justice is done. A person who had just been neglected or burned I think would be confused as to why Coop might be in prison, or would laugh it off somehow. Saying "good" in that situation would come across as somewhat psychotic or sociopathic, and I believe Dale always considered her as something of a saint, which seems a significant clash.

[DeepBlueSeed]

I think with the Diane character she was always a "tough cookie" but in the best possible Girl Friday sense, and had complete pride and respect for her job and the FBI, and genuine newly loved and respect Cole, Cooper and Albert. But whatever Mr. C did to her was so heinous and violating and intimate, it completely destroyed her to her core. And most likely there was a misunderstanding and no back up from Cole. She quit on the spot and vowed never to do anything for or speak to the FBI again. What she stood for and was proud of completely betrayed her. To me, just her instinctive recoil from Coles touch indicates her fear of being psychically harmed again.

I've assumed, thus far, that the agents only try to get in contact with Diane because of the relationship we saw (the tapes) in seasons 2 and 3. But I'm starting to wonder if, actually, there was something reported. When did Cooper drop off the radar as far as the FBI were concerned? Did he disappear from Twin Peaks? Or are they aware that he visited Diane, but just have an unbelievable story that they've never properly entertained until they encountered Bad Coop? Because that would have given them a really big incentive to seek Diane out.

(still, maybe Diane hugging Cole at the end doesn't bear that out - it seems she genuinely does have a untold story to tell him)

[DeepBlueSeed]

Gordon doesn't know what happened "that night", he says so to her right after the confrontation. Then she says they'll have a talk. He doesn't know.
My guess is there was a sexual assault. The only thing pointing against it is that "shouldn't she have known it wasn't Cooper then? Did she know?"

Bad Coop at the end of season 2 had a lot more in common with Good Coop than he does now.

Also, although she's probably aware of Blue Rose cases, if she's not familiar with doppelgängers it might've taken the discussion on the plane about the fingerprints not being correct to convinces Diane that the man she's blamed for 25 years isn't who she thought he was.

[DeepBlueSeed]

What bugs me is why would Diane drop everything and fly to South Dakota with Gordon Cole, who she clearly hates to interview Cooper when the last time she saw him, he assaulted her. Just seems improbable to me .

Also with that, we'd have to assume that Diane had seen Cooper after his Black Lodge experience, which also seems pretty unlikely to me. As even if Cole failed to acknowledge her reports, that would make the chances of Diane helping him even poorer, which I doubt happened.

Neither of these seem improbable/unlikely to me.

I think she's angry with Cole, rather than hating him. The end of the episode shows her working through that anger, knowing Cole is on her side.

I absolutely belief that Diane saw Bad Coop after the Black Lodge experience. The alternative, that she is angry because of something that happened before he visited Twin Peaks, doesn't connect with me considering the tapes he sends to her. Unless he's completely oblivious to having hurting her before he went to Twin Peaks, and he doesn't strike me as the type that would miss those sorts of signals, their relationship seems to be on firm ground.

[Xavi]

Three out of four dog-legs are still missing. Jerry's car is missing. The good new is that they found Dougie's car. It was stoooo-len, yet exploded to pieces. An intriguing question lies ahead. Did Richard steal Jerry's car, which might end up with Jerry behind bars and brother Ben's coming to rescue?

[AgentEcho]

This youtube video has an interesting theory about the Jerry scene that opened the episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXk1WfsLEco&t=934s

Basically theorizes there's more to the scene than just a random bit of comedy. I love that idea. It would be so Lynch if later a character encountered Jerry in the Red Room looking around screaming "I think I'm high!" Of course a random bit of comedy is also very Lynch. But I think the scene would actually be both funnier and more interesting if indeed Jerry has stumbled into another plane of existence.

[DeepBlueSeed]

Just listening to some older podcasts, and have been reminded that Cole tells the warden to allow Bad Coop to make his one phone call, and that he looks forward to hearing all about it.

Did the weird prison activity that accompanied that phone call get mentioned to Cole when he brought Diane in to see Bad Coop? Are we to believe that Bad Coop has cowed the warden so much that he'll refuse to mention it even when they discover he's escaped?

It seems that it would be something someone would have mentioned (particularly as it was recorded), although I guess Bad Coop has maybe gained some measure of power over the warden at this stage by mentioning Mr Strawberry. Anyone got any opinions, or is it just a case of "Let's wait and see..."? I'm assuming the FBI find out that Bad Coop has escaped* in the next episode.

* so tempting to say "flown the coop"

[indyit]

Consider the parallels between Jerry in this episode and DougieCoop:

Can't find his car.
He's Lost. He doesn't know where he is.
He calls for help.

Could Jerry be so high that he has reached a different plane of existence? Or his mind has become open to receiving distress signals from DougieCoop due to his vicinity of the Lodge in the woods? Or is he channeling DougieCoop's thoughts?

I have been thinking the along the same lines: here is the full dialogue form Ben & Jerry:
Ben: Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, What's going on?
Jerry: Someone Stole my car.
Ben: What?
Jerry: Didn't I tell ya?
Ben: Jerry, What's going on? Somone Stole your car?
Jerry: You say the same thing.
Ben: What?....Jerry
Jerry: I think I'm high!
Ben: Oh, good lord Jerry…
Jerry: I don't know where I am!

The line "you say the same thing" seems odd - Also, there are a number of long pauses, which makes me wonder if this scene might be timed to coincide side by side with the later scene with Janey-E, Dougie-coop and the cops.

RIGHT! I forgot to include "You say the same thing" in my post. DougieCoop's dialog is made up of him 'saying the same thing' that another character says to him. Too many coincidences for JUST comic relief?

Still going through the backlog of posts (on page 30ish now) but thought I'd give my two cents on this conversation.

I really think "You say the same thing" is a fairly literal response to the conversation. Ben asks "What?/What's going on?" four times hence Jerry is confused because he says "Didn't I tell ya?" because he said his car's been stolen, and says Ben keeps saying "the same thing" because he keeps asking the same question. I think the parallels with Cooper are there, and I think there's more to this scene in terms of where it may be heading in later eps, but I think it's just comic relief.

[LateReg]

Three out of four dog-legs are still missing. Jerry's car is missing. The good new is that they found Dougie's car. It was stoooo-len, yet exploded to pieces. An intriguing question lies ahead. Did Richard steal Jerry's car, which might end up with Jerry behind bars and brother Ben's coming to rescue?

I thought that at first too about Jerry's car being stolen by Richard, but don't we find out later in the episode that Richard used somebody else's car? The guy who Andy meets with?