Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

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claaa7
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:38 am

have you guys seen the CD inlay for the new soundtrack (the score version with Laura Palmer)?

lots of interesting pictures in there pertaining to episode 8 and the mythology of the Return. the package is designed by David Lynch and i get the feeling that the images chosen as well as their relation to each other says something about the mythology.

the first is a still image not from the series, it's a picture of the Palmer house at night. the front door is wide open and most of the lights are on..
the next pages feature pictures from The White Lodge in ep. 8, the floating Giant/Fireman and Seniorita Dido looking up at him in wonder and amazement.

i feel that the aforementioned pages are meant to be doppelgangers, showing the good (Giant/White Lodge/Dido) and the pure evil (Palmer house/Judy)..

Spoilers for episode 17/18 below
Spoiler:
it's clear that the Palmer house represent pure decay and evil in this season and it was revealed to us that Mister C's search for coordinates would have led him right to the Palmer house if he hadn't walked into the Fireman and Briggs' trap.


the middle spread of the booklet is a two panel picture of the atomic explosion. the way this is presented in ep. 8 makes me believe that this is not the birth of evil, or the birth of the Black/White lodge or DIDO. it is however Ground Zero for the mythology we are following in the series. the bomb seems to rip a whole in our dimension and birth the Woodsmen into our plane as well as BOB and several similiar orbs but in turn the White Lodge brings forth the essence of Laura Palmer's spirit to be reborn into our world when the time is right.

there's then a B&W picture of two of the bell shaped objects standing in a row leading up to the cinema screen in The Giant's house. didn't we see an entire room filled with these type of objects next to the cinema room? what are your thoughts on their function?

last is another spread that confirms the opposing forces - a B&W picture of the Bob orb on one page, next to a full colour picture of the Golden orb that we see as we leave the Atomic blast right before we enter the purple ocean in ep. 8. i take it that both objects represent forms taking shape and being formed out of the unified field.

some intriguing stuff here!! oh, and the back of the album has the picture of the Glastonberry Grove circle.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:02 am

Throughout this rewatch, I've been thinking about the later reveal that Ray was an FBI informant. This has seemed a bit off/convoluted to me ever since it was revealed, and I'm still not really sure it holds together. So, Ray was reporting to Gordon, but Gordon was seemingly totally unaware that Ray was palling around with a guy who looks like Cooper and goes by the name "Mr. Cooper." Doesn't it seem likely that Gordon would have at least inquired at some point as to the name of Ray's "boss"? This Part rather intriguingly paints Phillip as Ray's "handler," so maybe Gordon's intel was being filtered through Jeffries, who has his own agenda and wasn't totally forthcoming? And why was Ray arrested? Was he actually stupidly running guns, or was it to protect him?

The Woodsmen descending on Mr. C is still one of my favorite moments from S3 on its own merits, but Part 17 cheapened it a bit. Watching the Woodsmen desperately try to recreate their ritual in the bright light of day robbed the Part 8 scene of a bit of its murky mystery, and the Bob orb will never quite be the same after the zany green glove battle. :-/ I guess given the franchise's wildly inconsistent history, it's oddly appropriate the the season's most artistically satisfying Part is inexorably linked to the season's stupidest scene.

On the other hand, the reuse of "My Prayer" in Part 18 just gives the song deeper resonance, mystery and creepiness. Are we meant to draw some parallel between the Woodsmen and Coop/Diane's disturbing sex scene? She does cover his face in a manner slightly reminiscent of the Woodsmen's head-crushing, which also probably ties in to Naido's facelessness? In any event, the song (and some clever editing) gives us one of the funniest moments of the season IMO: when the singer says to "tell me the words I'm longing to know," the Woodsman interjects, "Gotta light?"

Speaking of music: The lyrics to a lot of the songs chosen for this season have interesting thematic resonance, but the placement of "She's Gone Away" seems to have special significance. The reference to digging in places 'til your fingers bleed seems to deliberately call to mind the Woodsmen digging into Coop's wound to spread his blood on his face. Much of the rest of the song struck me on this go-round almost as a message from Mr. C to Bob, voicing the doppel's dead-eyed world weariness about their partnership/mission ("I can't remember what you came here for"). "A little mouth opened up inside" calls to mind Sarah at Elk's Point #9. I wonder if the "she" in "She's Gone Away" references Experiment/Mother, since Mr. C/Bob seems to be hunting her down?

I'm a big fan of the Schröedinger's Sarah approach to 1956 Girl; she both is and isn't Sarah, as far as I'm concerned. I have no horse in the race, and I'm happy not knowing, but it's a fun idea to toy with. This time, I did watch with Sarah in mind, and it made the scenes all the more heartbreaking. Seeing Sarah in the context of a sweet girlish crush while knowing what is to become of her marriage and her life, and her finding a "good luck" penny (shades of Hawk in the bathroom stall) just before something awful crawls inside her, destroying her life. Oof. I'm not saying it's the definitive interpretation, but it is a powerful one.

I think this one takes the record for least time spent in the town of Twin Peaks (just the Roadhouse), and perhaps the only time in a TP episode we don't see the "good" Dale at all (I believe there is a later Part where we only see a photo of him and archive footage from Fire Walk with Me).

This one strikes me as the perfect mix of Mark and David. Mark: "Let's explore the atomic bomb as a means of unleashing the Mother of Abominations." David: "Great! I'll do a Brakhage montage and break out the Penderecki!"

I recall someone positing weeks ago in this thread that, when the Fireman stares dead into camera at something we never see, he is looking at the audience in disgust and pity, making us question our own culpability in humanity's grander spectrum of evil. Viewed through this lens, that moment gives me chills. Somewhat relatedly, at one point in the "A-bomb montage," we see a gold orb seemingly forming, still in its viscous/molten phase. I'm not sure what this is supposed to be (it obviously parallels the "seeds"), but the way it floats toward camera, I subconsciously expected to see my own reflection in it when it got closer, and was slightly disturbed not to.

So the "Laura orb" thread never went any further than what we got here. I'm glad. I was skeptical about this development for the reasons many have indicated, but what we got here is ambiguous enough that there's plenty of room for interpretations that don't rob Laura of her humanity or her agency. If the Fireman dreamt up Laura's essence to some extent as a force of good to combat Judy/Bob, I don't view that as any different than Leland & Sarah creating the specific DNA cocktail that gave her life. We all start life with certain genetic advantages and limitations. Laura may have had certain things instilled in her by the Fireman, but -- as we see in FWWM and TSDoLP -- she still often gave in to pain, temptation and self-loathing in a very human way. My fear was that she would be painted as having some predestined function, but the way L/F left it, I think the Fireman simply threw her into the mix as a shot in the dark to hopefully make a difference at some point down the line, not as some cosmic chess move where he knew the exact repercussions and had charted out the course of her entire life before she was born. Of course, S4 could prove me wrong, but I think this approach is much more consistent with DKL's usual approach to the character. (And has there ever in film history been a more prolonged love affair between a director and a character?) There are still a lot of questions, most notably: Why was she sent to Earth in 1945 but did not come into physical existence until 1971? If we're to accept that 1956 Girl is Sarah, for argument's sake, perhaps Laura couldn't be born until two individuals inhabited by Judy's "children" met and reproduced?

I know there's been a bit of debate, in the Gender thread and elsewhere, about the merits/wisdom of making a mother figure the "big bad." It is interesting that she is brought into the world through the work of a team of predominantly men, striving to build a "tool" that could lay waste to vast swathes of Earth. Judy may only be "evil" from our perspective...remember Mark's book talking about how the interests of the spirits/aliens may not be traditionally good or bad but simply beyond our conception. I posit (just thinking aloud) that Judy is a facet of the Mother archetype that Native cultures often worship, who is usually closely tied to Earth and its fertility. As human society simultaneously moved toward phallocentricism and decreased respect for the planet,
culminating in the invention of a potentially world-destroying weapon (the ultimate act of presumptuous machismo), the Earth-protecting/vengeful element of Mother, Judy, stepped in. Thus, she and Bob and her other spawn are only "evil" from our limited perspective, because they are working against our interests -- trying to poison humanity and ultimately destroy us so that the universe can survive. Of course, they seem to predominantly do that by preying on the weaknesses mankind already has, thus using the exact thing they are fighting against to bring about our downfall (sort of like the "Monsters on Maple Street" Twilight Zone episode on a global scale). So, the bomb detonation did not "birth evil," or even a new type of evil, but rather, caused the elemental forces of nature to say, "Enough is enough, mankind...now we're fighting back." In this scenario, I'm not sure what to think about seemingly more benevolent spirits like the Fireman or Mike. Are they simply more sympathetic to human concerns, or are we just pawns to them in reaching some other end?

I'm not necessarily endorsing this interpretation, but I find it interesting, and it's definitely consistent with the themes of Mark's book.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:44 am

I think although Ray was an FBI-informant that he had his own agenda and wasn´t totally loyal to the Bureau. I think he was in it for the money that he could extract from Mr. C for the coordinates. The way he carries himself made him seem like an ex-criminal to me.

edit: That would call into question though when Ray was hired to do the job because he was hanging out with Mr. C even before Cole and the others knew about Mr. C. Hem, another mystery.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:35 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Throughout this rewatch, I've been thinking about the later reveal that Ray was an FBI informant. This has seemed a bit off/convoluted to me ever since it was revealed, and I'm still not really sure it holds together. So, Ray was reporting to Gordon, but Gordon was seemingly totally unaware that Ray was palling around with a guy who looks like Cooper and goes by the name "Mr. Cooper." Doesn't it seem likely that Gordon would have at least inquired at some point as to the name of Ray's "boss"? This Part rather intriguingly paints Phillip as Ray's "handler," so maybe Gordon's intel was being filtered through Jeffries, who has his own agenda and wasn't totally forthcoming? And why was Ray arrested? Was he actually stupidly running guns, or was it to protect him?


The reveal that Ray is an FBI informant seems designed to help clarify certain pieces of the puzzle, but I'm as lost as you are. It doesn't seem like Cole received much information from him during the series, and there were generous hints that the "Jeffries" everyone thought they were talking to was not actually Jeffries... So yeah. Don't get it. Still need to start a full-fledged rewatch, and mean to pay more attention to the Ray angle.


Mr. Reindeer wrote:Speaking of music: The lyrics to a lot of the songs chosen for this season have interesting thematic resonance, but the placement of "She's Gone Away" seems to have special significance. The reference to digging in places 'til your fingers bleed seems to deliberately call to mind the Woodsmen digging into Coop's wound to spread his blood on his face. Much of the rest of the song struck me on this go-round almost as a message from Mr. C to Bob, voicing the doppel's dead-eyed world weariness about their partnership/mission ("I can't remember what you came here for"). "A little mouth opened up inside" calls to mind Sarah at Elk's Point #9. I wonder if the "she" in "She's Gone Away" references Experiment/Mother, since Mr. C/Bob seems to be hunting her down?


Read somewhere recently that Trent Reznor originally proposed a different song for inclusion, and David rejected it as "not ugly enough."
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Xavi
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:07 am

Many many eggs from "The Mother/Experiment" fell down to earth. Peculiar that only one caught the eye, the one that crept into the mouth of that innocent girl. What happened to all the others? It's up to interpretation, but it is very likely that they also must've found their way in some human host. Are these frog-moth visualisations of evil that lurks in each and everyone? Look at all the negativity (a form of evil imo) that overfloods the threads that in no way contribute to any understanding or appreciation of Season Three.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby laughingpinecone » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:12 pm

Cheap shots aside, I've been thinking the same... I think that we see Sarah's story as a cautionary tale of sorts, as the example of a frocust hosted in a person whose life eventually got so wrecked, so painful, that the critter was successfully incubated. The others... are out there. Dormant. For now.
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claaa7
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:30 am

watching this clip and seeing it in colour.. was the theater at the end of Inland Empire also shot here (as Club SIlencio was)?

IcedOver
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby IcedOver » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:44 pm

Considering all the acclaim this episode has justifiably received, and thinking back on it, I can't help but be disappointed because nothing was followed up on. After watching it, I felt it opened up the narrative, but the promise was not fulfilled. It's almost a total standalone.
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Xavi
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Xavi » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:01 am

IcedOver wrote:Considering all the acclaim this episode has justifiably received, and thinking back on it, I can't help but be disappointed because nothing was followed up on. After watching it, I felt it opened up the narrative, but the promise was not fulfilled. It's almost a total standalone.


Episode "8" literally "lies" between death and life. Sure, this has nothing to do with Season 3. Go tell the cows that eating grass is boring.

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