Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

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watergateburglar
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Re: PREDICTIONS - POST GOTTA LIGHT

Postby watergateburglar » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:20 am

AuralAmpler wrote:Aspects of Dougie Jone's life never existed; for example his wife and son may be hallucinations;
or, more probably, his son is a Lodge spirit. .


yeah, i can go with some of that. Jane-Y saying 'Mr. Dreamweaver' is mighhhhhty suspicious.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby AuralAmpler » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:30 am

yeah. i imagine Janey-E and the kid sorta deflating like Dougie did in the Red Room ; they seem like constructs of some kind. I also get the sense that Naomi Watts is playing a version of her "innocent" character in Mulholland Drive. They're hard to tell apart and she even talks like that character.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:57 am

wpc77 wrote:I think Ep 8 actually made the backstory very clear, except for one part - (1) did Bob appearing in the bubble vomited by the Experiment originally happen in 1945, and then the Giant/???? sent Laura's spirit to combat it, which we saw play out in FWWM or (2) did Bob get extracted from DoppleCoop, time travel back to 1945, and sneak himself into the bubble vomit to re-insert himself into history, whereby the Giant/???? realized this and sent Laura's spirit back in time to combat him? John Thorne thinks it is the latter. If it's the latter, then we will probably be seeing Laura alive again soon.


Time has always been kind of fluid. The Giant in the 40s-50s looks the same as he does in 2017, but different to how he looked circa 1990. This may mean that time operates differently over there (even though 25 years passed over there at roughly the same rate as it did here). There are other possibly reasons of course that the Lodge spirits looks aged at some times, and not at others (Leland seemed to suggest that BOB has always looked the way he does, since he saw him as a kid).

I prefer the time travel version, regardless, particularly in regards to Laura. It retains the integrity of who she was. BOB less so, because we really don't know too much about Lodge spirits. But the fact we see BOB in a bubble being extracted from Bad Coop before we see the same BOB bubble suggests some sort of chronology. Or it could be just explaining this is how BOB looks, to some degree.
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:04 am

Hester Prynne wrote:I haven't been able to keep up with the thread, but has has anyone discussed the correlations with the Book of Revelation? I feel like this is more a story about destruction than creation - the breaking of the seals, the first seal being a white horse, the sounds of the horses neighing as the Woodsman walks off into the darkness made me think of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, and then there is the fire raining down from the heavens.

The little girl - we don't know her name, but we know she's "not Mary," (the name of the other girl she thought the little boy was seeing) and then we see the frog (frogs came out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet in the Book of Revelation) crawl into her mouth. Is this the beginning of the Anti-Christ?

Any connection to the "antimatter" date hint from Dougie's house address?

- Don't want to over analyze the episode because it was such a beautiful piece of film, but those similarities have really been on my mind.


I got that vibe too earlier, please check out viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3650&p=90360#p90360

Revelation 16:13, the creature to me clearly represented that unclean spirit. We'll see how this pans out, I do not think it has anything to do with Laura. It may very likely alude to a beginning of the Anti-Christ.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Daliz » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:14 am

Shloogorgh wrote:
Daliz wrote:What I'm wondering is, why is the Experiment called the Experiment? Or Experiment Model like in Ep1/2. "Experiment" points to something man-made, the cliche of experiment-gone-wrong, a-bomb experiment?
If the Experiment is somehow the ultimate evil/mother of BOB/something like that, then wouldn't she (it?) be an older entity than a (supposedly recent, definitely not ancient) scientific experiment?

I always thought the evil we're dealing with in TP is centuries old.

Maybe the experiment is just an experiment of trying to trap/control/study this source of evil.


I think the black lodge is an ancient evil, but maybe BOB is young comparatively.

Calling that creature "the experiment" does make me think that maybe she is an anthropomorphized nuclear bomb. And she gave birth to BOB, who is "the evil that men do." When BOB later took up residence in the Black Lodge, the rest of the spirits had trouble controlling him.


Yes this could be one explanation.

About the BOB and Laura orbs: I think the purpose of those characters faces being in those orbs is just simply so we would understand that this orbs contains the soul/spirit/essence of Laura or BOB. A visual clue for viewers. If the orbs would be just colored orbs it would be a lot more difficult to understand. It might be that at this stage BOB doesn't look like anything really, but he needs to be represented somehow.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby hopesfall » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:17 am

Daliz wrote:About the BOB and Laura orbs: I think the purpose of those characters faces being in those orbs is just simply so we would understand that this orbs contains the soul/spirit/essence of Laura or BOB. A visual clue for viewers. If the orbs would be just colored orbs it would be a lot more difficult to understand. It might be that at this stage BOB doesn't look like anything really, but he needs to be represented somehow.


This is exactly what I took from it too. Without the faces showing inside each orb, what the hell else would we think they are?
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:23 am

Shloogorgh wrote:
Daliz wrote:What I'm wondering is, why is the Experiment called the Experiment? Or Experiment Model like in Ep1/2. "Experiment" points to something man-made, the cliche of experiment-gone-wrong, a-bomb experiment?
If the Experiment is somehow the ultimate evil/mother of BOB/something like that, then wouldn't she (it?) be an older entity than a (supposedly recent, definitely not ancient) scientific experiment?

I always thought the evil we're dealing with in TP is centuries old.

Maybe the experiment is just an experiment of trying to trap/control/study this source of evil.


I think the black lodge is an ancient evil, but maybe BOB is young comparatively.

Calling that creature "the experiment" does make me think that maybe she is an anthropomorphized nuclear bomb. And she gave birth to BOB, who is "the evil that men do." When BOB later took up residence in the Black Lodge, the rest of the spirits had trouble controlling him.


Prehistoric race, like the Atlanteans, advanced societies that predated the flood. Like Bob Engels said about the bugs and the 1950's something creating making the world stop- perhaps a rift in timespace for the Lodge entities to enter, the blast seems to just have shown "intercourse between the two worlds."

But regarding the birth-- Jack Parsons said that his experiment worked. The Babalon Workings --> the Golem (a "fetus" brought to life with magical incantations; Jack impregnated Marjorie Cameron Parsons during an occult sex ritual, the fetus was placed in a shell, and eradiating it) created a daughter. BOB called Laura an experiment in the diary.

when it came to create the modern equivalent of the Philosopher's stone to master alchemy at its highest level...changing one element into another, changing uranium into plutonium..one of the highest secrets of alchemy..where did the members of the S1 Committee of The Manhattan Project meet? they put their knowledge of alchemy in the Bohemian Grove.
men listened to the manic laughter of satan..wearing owl masks and black robes. it was here at Bohemian Grove that the consumation of thousands of years of alchemical atomic research took place. nothing less than the birth of the bomb.

american author micheal hoffman in his book "secret societies and secret warfare" speculates that the Golem fetus may have been place inside a giant 25ft long 12ft in diameter canister. this mysterious canister was nicknamed "Jumbo" it was made of solid lead and cement. it is concievable that the fetus was place in the center of the canister and eratiated with the blast of the worlds first atomic bomb thus infusing the demon child with what kabballahist call the demonic force of atomic fire.

"Trinity" - the great beast (demonic forces? The bomb?,) the scarlet woman (Marjorie, their summoned 'whore of Babalon') and the antichrist (Parsons as host.)


Also, Freemasonry revenge beheadings- plus a "hyper weird gate" was made with Indian labor under the order of a Freemason near the Trinity blast site, puts us in mind of Merriwether Lewis and his bloody apron. https://www.ukcolumn.org/oldforums/inde ... reemasonry

Head-chopping is an integral part of Masonic ritual whose belt of transmission can be glimpsed in the death lore of Mexico. It was here that Masons Arthur Manby and Peter Kern were dispatched for reasons known only to the initiated few. But what is known is that a dozen of the men who sought to stand in Manby's path were beheaded. According to biographer Frank Waters, Manby himself was discovered in his palatial home in 1929 with his head missing.

Manby had attempted a huge land grab in the Taos, New Mexico area interrupted by forays into the Mexican hinterland where Indians worship Camazotz, the "Lord of Head-Chopping" who takes the form of a gigantic bat according to Aztec-Mayan mythology.

Peter Kern constructed a hyper-weird gate entirely with Toltec Indian labor in Mexico. He called it the "Gate of Death", the "Gate with a Thousand Doors". And there was method to this madness: forty years afterward, the satanic transubstantiation known as nuclear fission appeared for the first time on the earth at the Trinity Site - the first atomic bomb explosion. It took place not far from Kern's Gate; in front of which Peter E. Kern was beheaded by a man in black.
LFB > S3 < green tea latte Frank
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:26 am

Shloogorgh wrote:
Daliz wrote:What I'm wondering is, why is the Experiment called the Experiment? Or Experiment Model like in Ep1/2. "Experiment" points to something man-made, the cliche of experiment-gone-wrong, a-bomb experiment?
If the Experiment is somehow the ultimate evil/mother of BOB/something like that, then wouldn't she (it?) be an older entity than a (supposedly recent, definitely not ancient) scientific experiment?

I always thought the evil we're dealing with in TP is centuries old.

Maybe the experiment is just an experiment of trying to trap/control/study this source of evil.


I think the black lodge is an ancient evil, but maybe BOB is young comparatively.

Calling that creature "the experiment" does make me think that maybe she is an anthropomorphized nuclear bomb. And she gave birth to BOB, who is "the evil that men do." When BOB later took up residence in the Black Lodge, the rest of the spirits had trouble controlling him.


Prehistoric race, like the Atlanteans, advanced societies that predated the flood. Like Bob Engels said about the bugs and the 1950's something creating making the world stop- perhaps a rift in timespace for the Lodge entities to enter, the blast seems to just have shown "intercourse between the two worlds."

But regarding the birth-- Jack Parsons said that his experiment worked. The Babalon Workings --> the Golem (a "fetus" brought to life with magical incantations; Jack impregnated Marjorie Cameron Parsons during an occult sex ritual, the fetus was placed in a shell, and eradiating it) created a daughter. BOB called Laura an experiment in the diary.


boske wrote:
Hester Prynne wrote:I haven't been able to keep up with the thread, but has has anyone discussed the correlations with the Book of Revelation? I feel like this is more a story about destruction than creation - the breaking of the seals, the first seal being a white horse, the sounds of the horses neighing as the Woodsman walks off into the darkness made me think of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, and then there is the fire raining down from the heavens.

The little girl - we don't know her name, but we know she's "not Mary," (the name of the other girl she thought the little boy was seeing) and then we see the frog (frogs came out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet in the Book of Revelation) crawl into her mouth. Is this the beginning of the Anti-Christ?

Revelation 16:13, the creature to me clearly represented that unclean spirit. We'll see how this pans out, I do not think it has anything to do with Laura. It may very likely alude to a beginning of the Anti-Christ.



when it came to create the modern equivalent of the Philosopher's stone to master alchemy at its highest level...changing one element into another, changing uranium into plutonium..one of the highest secrets of alchemy..where did the members of the S1 Committee of The Manhattan Project meet? they put their knowledge of alchemy in the Bohemian Grove.
men listened to the manic laughter of satan..wearing owl masks and black robes. it was here at Bohemian Grove that the consumation of thousands of years of alchemical atomic research took place. nothing less than the birth of the bomb.

american author micheal hoffman in his book "secret societies and secret warfare" speculates that the Golem fetus may have been place inside a giant 25ft long 12ft in diameter canister. this mysterious canister was nicknamed "Jumbo" it was made of solid lead and cement. it is concievable that the fetus was place in the center of the canister and eratiated with the blast of the worlds first atomic bomb thus infusing the demon child with what kabballahist call the demonic force of atomic fire.

"Trinity" - the great beast (demonic forces? The bomb?,) the scarlet woman (Marjorie, their summoned 'whore of Babalon') and the antichrist (Parsons as host.)


Also, Freemasonry revenge beheadings- plus a "hyper weird gate" was made with Indian labor under the order of a Freemason near the Trinity blast site, puts us in mind of Merriwether Lewis and his bloody apron. https://www.ukcolumn.org/oldforums/inde ... reemasonry

Head-chopping is an integral part of Masonic ritual whose belt of transmission can be glimpsed in the death lore of Mexico. It was here that Masons Arthur Manby and Peter Kern were dispatched for reasons known only to the initiated few. But what is known is that a dozen of the men who sought to stand in Manby's path were beheaded. According to biographer Frank Waters, Manby himself was discovered in his palatial home in 1929 with his head missing.

Manby had attempted a huge land grab in the Taos, New Mexico area interrupted by forays into the Mexican hinterland where Indians worship Camazotz, the "Lord of Head-Chopping" who takes the form of a gigantic bat according to Aztec-Mayan mythology.

Peter Kern constructed a hyper-weird gate entirely with Toltec Indian labor in Mexico. He called it the "Gate of Death", the "Gate with a Thousand Doors". And there was method to this madness: forty years afterward, the satanic transubstantiation known as nuclear fission appeared for the first time on the earth at the Trinity Site - the first atomic bomb explosion. It took place not far from Kern's Gate; in front of which Peter E. Kern was beheaded by a man in black.
LFB > S3 < green tea latte Frank
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby gavriloP » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:06 am

Couple of things: I just checked from Mulholland Drive and yes, the stage of "white logde" is exactly same as in Club Silencio! All the woodgravings and decorations are exactly the same. So perhaps it wasn't completely honest when they said that this is not a Lynchverse :) It's all a recording folks, an illusion ;)

Another thing that occured to me: BadCoops technology is staright out of a dream! At least that's how I see tech gadgets in my dream. All the other computers and phones that other people use in the series are quite normal and realistic. But BadCoop and Jeffries(??) really has this dream tech thing going on. BadCoop even types total gibberish on his laptop.

Wasn't there something like this (mysterious scifi gadgets) in the original tv pilot version of MD? I haven't seen that but I remember reading the script a loooong time ago.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:23 am

Okay this was not my initial thoughts but right now I think we didn't witness the birth of Bob but what happened to him after he was expelled from Evil Cooper.

Bob is cast back to 1945 and is causing mayhem.

GIant is worried and plucks Laura out of the Lodge - she has previous in terms of stopping Bob getting what he wants... and sends her after him.

Is this what causes the discrepancies in The Secret History of Twin Peaks?

Is the second half now in an alternate timeline... remember suddenly there were different people in the Double R at the end of Episode 7?

Probably not - and I will likely change my mind again in 5 minutes :D
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:25 am

Just thought, in light of the tune that Cole may or may not have been whistling whilst in front of a photo of a nuclear explosion, if the lyrics to Rammstein's Engel pointed towards anything, or proved conclusively that it was unlikely to be this song.

If anything it probably muddies the waters...

Who in their lifetime is good on Earth
and will become an angel after death
you look to the sky and ask
why can't you see them

First if the clouds have gone to sleep
you can see us in the sky
we are afraid and alone

God knows I don't want to be an angel

They live behind the sunshine
separated from us, infinite expanse
they must cling to the stars (very tightly)
so they won't fall from the sky

First if the clouds have gone to sleep
you can see us in the sky
we are afraid and alone

God knows I don't want to be an angel

First if the clouds have gone to sleep
you can see us in the sky
we are afraid and alone

God knows I don't want to be an angel
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby motorcycleaupairboy » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:33 am

Maybe not very pertinent to the brilliant ''narrative'' discussion/speculation going on here but did anybody have any allegorical takes on the ending of this episode?

For me I took the Woodsman's poem, broadcast over the airwaves as a sort of American loss of innocence, not only in relation to the bomb, but also at the advent of ''Rock N Roll''/pop culture. We have long seen the inebriating effect and importance of music within the TP universe and I think this is reflected here with everybody falling unconscious and this scene along with his repetitious poem reinforced this for me. It was as if Lynch was showing us not only the birth of modern sadness and sorrow (i.e Bob and the Black Lodge denizens entering out world via the bomb) but also the birth of the corrupting influence of Pop/Rock music and it's culture. This scene to me was very much the Twin Peaks' transmutation of say Elvis on the Ed Sullivan Show.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby silvo » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:36 am

Reconsidering the words of MIKE

Through the darkness of future's past,
The magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds...
"Fire... walk with me."
We lived among the people.
I think you say, convenience store.
We lived above it.
I mean it like it is... like it sounds.
I too have been touched by the devilish one.
Tattoo on the left shoulder...
Oh, but when I saw the face of God, I was changed.
I took the entire arm off.
My name is MIKE.
His name is BOB.

The first part seems to be referring to the atomic bomb and the opening between the two worlds.
The second part seems clear that BOB and MIKE are not humans. Are spirits. Maybe the only option to be borne as a human BOB could be via the frog. Otherwise he must have captured a vessel.
If the convenience store was created with atomic bomb ( as a spirit meeting place), then both MIKE and BOB should be created with atomic bomb?

The one parts that troubles me is that MIKE says that he was been touched by the devilish one! He wasn't a bad spirit from the start? That's what I can't understand. If he wasn't then MOTHER didn't create him. Did she?

Is the devilish one then BOB, who touched MIKE and make him a murderer?
Also, I am confused of the role of the ARM. If MIKE could escaped from evil by cutting his arm, then ARM is arm?
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:43 am

BigEd wrote:
guildnavigator wrote:It's while Ray is looking at Mr. Cooper after shooting him, while the woodsmen are putting hands on Cooper, look for bobs face in a round ball near coopers abdomen.


Thanks! I just watched that part on my computer and now see it. My normal display is a bit dark, and with that dark scene I just couldn't see it. I now see the emerging ball with BOB's face in it. Are we certain that Bob left him? Right after seeing the emerging "bubble" we cut to more of the woodsmen just moving around and then Ray driving away while leaving a message for Phillip.


I do wonder why BOB and his bubble/blob appearance is so similar to how he appears when spewed out by 'Mother'. Are these both examples of birth/rebirth? I'll admit, this makes me think of the woodsmen as midwives, tending to 'the mother' as he delivers the child. But, in that case, will BOB take on the same form he has previously, or will he have 'evolved' into something else?
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby motorcycleaupairboy » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:44 am

silvo wrote:Reconsidering the words of MIKE

The second part seems clear that BOB and MIKE are not humans. Are spirits. Maybe the only option to be borne as a human BOB could be via the frog. Otherwise he must have captured a vessel.


Some people have speculated that the frog is a derivation of this https://acadiaworldtraders.net/collections/balinese-demon-chasers-guardian-mobiles/products/flying-frog-mobile-winged-spirit-chaser-carved-wood-balinese-folk-art-green-12 which as the description here says is a ''Spirit chaser'' designed to protect households from evil spirits. Obviously it's not beyond Lynch or Frost to warp this legend to their own means, but I think this does point more to the idea that it isn't some evil entity and could actually be some form of Laura's... Hard to believe a former prom queen could be some grotesque frog/moth but stranger things have happened haha

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