Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

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boske
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

eponymos wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:giant 2.jpgGiant 1.jpg

The giant as a creator giving birth through a golden uterus vindicates Martha Nochimson’s reading of the giant as a feminine entity based on the covering of his male genitalia while standing above Cooper. Her theories have always held a great deal of weight with me. Hopefully she will revisit Lynch once again after The Return.
??????? (Jupiter, Zeus) appears male and Laura (Minerva, Athena) is "born from his head" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerva), but we also have Señorita Dido (Juno, Hera?, should be señora then!), the golden uterus (and the fallopian trumpet!) there to underscore the male-female generative nature.

I know we shouldn't take Lynch this literally but there's too much mythology in that scene to not draw parallels ...
Yes, this I think is no coincidence. It ties into owls as well (owl of Minerva). I always thought LMFAP/Saturn's cousin was Venus ("she is my cousin, but doesn't she look almost exactly like Laura Palmer"). I do not know how this could be resolved though, was it Athena and not Venus all along? One idea behind "I feel like I know her, but sometimes my arms bend back" was that this referred to Venus' retrograde motion in the sky.
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boske
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

There I think is another parallel from early on that has not been raised yet. Ruth Davenport as in Ruth-Daven/Deva-Port, Red Divine Door. Why would this matter? Dougie Jones' house in Vegas is the only one with a red door, and historically this stood for sanctuary in some western churches, but certainly can have additional meanings. The lodge curtains are a red door/portal to a divine world. And in the body of the victim where Ruth's head was we find Dougie's ring. This is not a coincidence either.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by sycamore »

There have now been three characters with long, pointy noses. As I mentioned before, Carlton Lee Russell, who plays the Jumping Man in FWWM is on the season three cast list that was released in 2016 (he has not yet appeared so far - not even as another character). We've all been talking about Bob. At some point, we'll surely be introduced to his partner in crime: Mike. Is Mike the Jumping Man? We know Phillip Gerard is inhabited by Mike. We know the Man From Another Place is The Arm. We know that the Man From Anther Place and the Jumping Man both wear red suits and are part of the same lodge. We see the Jumping Man as a potentially siginficant character in FWWM (placed behind the Man From Another Place and in strong lighting). We know Bob came in an orb. We see Bob partially come out of Mr C as an orb. The moth-frog comes from an egg. Is the moth-frog the beginning of the Jumping Man / Mike? Thoughts?

Love this DKL discussion of frog-moths:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW6yZC9ZzDI
(from his quinoa video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11p0y9z1XOU
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by Ragnell »

boske wrote:
eponymos wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:giant 2.jpgGiant 1.jpg

The giant as a creator giving birth through a golden uterus vindicates Martha Nochimson’s reading of the giant as a feminine entity based on the covering of his male genitalia while standing above Cooper. Her theories have always held a great deal of weight with me. Hopefully she will revisit Lynch once again after The Return.
??????? (Jupiter, Zeus) appears male and Laura (Minerva, Athena) is "born from his head" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerva), but we also have Señorita Dido (Juno, Hera?, should be señora then!), the golden uterus (and the fallopian trumpet!) there to underscore the male-female generative nature.

I know we shouldn't take Lynch this literally but there's too much mythology in that scene to not draw parallels ...
Yes, this I think is no coincidence. It ties into owls as well (owl of Minerva). I always thought LMFAP/Saturn's cousin was Venus ("she is my cousin, but doesn't she look almost exactly like Laura Palmer"). I do not know how this could be resolved though, was it Athena and not Venus all along? One idea behind "I feel like I know her, but sometimes my arms bend back" was that this referred to Venus' retrograde motion in the sky.
I don't think it's a coincidence either.

There is an intetesting gender dynamic going on though. Some Wiccans and many other neopagans believe that male ans female are complimentary energies that reside in each soul together abd blend for creativity. With that in mind, consider this...

The major Black Lodge spirits are usually masculine.
BOB, the Arm, the Woodsman, everyone at the meeting except Mrs Tremond (who always travels with a male grandchild). The big creator for their side seems to be the feminine Experiment. There are girl doppelgangers but I don't think they count as major spirits, those are more like low ranking cthonic residents than major powers like BOB and MFAP.

(Worth noting here is an argument the Tremomds are White Lodge and the assumed male white horse is Black Lodge. Either way its still lopsided male.)

The Angel in FWWM is female. In the Mauve Room, Cooper meets a Japanese girl and an American Girl. Senorita Dido resides with ??????? in the fortress. Laura herself is confirmed to be aligned with them now.

The Giant/??????? is the only clear White Lodge spirit that's male. And ??????? is the creative force on that side, just as the feminine Experiment is the creative force on the other. Because they can blend both energies, it seems.

What's really neat is both Maj Briggs and Coop are men with traditionally masculine jobs who have extremely receptive, intuitive psyches. When Maj Briggs is introduced he is always showing this strange, formal empathy to Bobby in an attempt to connect with him emotionally, a nilitary family man. Cooper's investigative skills blend traditionally masculine intellect with traditionally feminine empathy and intuition, and his primary focus is always the suffering and pain of the female victim.

I don't think the Giant is female. But I think the White Lodge is overwhelmingly feminine and only people who can transcend the strict limitations of machismo and blend the male/female parts of their psyche can access it.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by mujubuju »

We've reached that point in this thread where the theories/speculations have become more bizarre and obtuse than the actual show itself. That is quite an accomplishment.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by dontlooknow »

i like how the 2-week-hiatus changes the quality of speculations towards experimental :)

on topic: are there any explanations yet for dougies wedding ring ending up in briggs' stomach?
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by Ragnell »

dontlooknow wrote:i like how the 2-week-hiatus changes the quality of speculations towards experimental :)

on topic: are there any explanations yet for dougies wedding ring ending up in briggs' stomach?
Briggs swallowed the Owl Cave ring to keep it from Doppelcoop and some sort of magic changed it out with Dougie's wedding ring the day before Cooper left the Lodge?
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by Deep Thought »

dontlooknow wrote:i like how the 2-week-hiatus changes the quality of speculations towards experimental :)

on topic: are there any explanations yet for dougies wedding ring ending up in briggs' stomach?
Maybe DoppleCoop simply shoved it into his mouth as he was killing him.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by Novalis »

Ragnell wrote:
dontlooknow wrote:i like how the 2-week-hiatus changes the quality of speculations towards experimental :)

on topic: are there any explanations yet for dougies wedding ring ending up in briggs' stomach?
Briggs swallowed the Owl Cave ring to keep it from Doppelcoop and some sort of magic changed it out with Dougie's wedding ring the day before Cooper left the Lodge?
I like that. Especially if it is never actually explained how they switched.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by HagbardCeline »

Novalis wrote:
Ragnell wrote:
dontlooknow wrote:i like how the 2-week-hiatus changes the quality of speculations towards experimental :)

on topic: are there any explanations yet for dougies wedding ring ending up in briggs' stomach?
Briggs swallowed the Owl Cave ring to keep it from Doppelcoop and some sort of magic changed it out with Dougie's wedding ring the day before Cooper left the Lodge?
I like that. Especially if it is never actually explained how they switched.
I was almost thinking that was the reason Briggs was beheaded...because DoppelCoop had to get the owl ring back.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by DeepBlueSeed »

TwinsPeak wrote:
DeepBlueSeed wrote:
claaa7 wrote:
i think the Bob orb was one of several similiar eggs spewed forth by Mother/Experiment.. in my mind the only reason one had Bob's face was to signal to the viewer that it in fact was the birth of Bob without dialouge (thankfully). in "reality" all the eggs probably looked the same.
I think it looks so close to the shape that is pulled from Bad Coop's body that it has more in common with that than the eggs. I think it represents a rebirth rather than an actual birth, already fully realised with an evil gleam in his eye.

I suppose we need to see more episodes to know more....sounds fun.

I do like the idea that all the eggs are the same even the BoB egg and we are only seeing his face, so the viewer knows Bob is included in this invasion. I dont think this is a re-entry, I think we saw the entry.....why are people thinking its a re-entry?
Heh! For the reasons you quoted by me, perhaps? The fact the BOB looks so identical in both those scenes. Clearly Bad Coop isn't giving birth to BOB, as we know he already exists, so when we see him appear very similar later in the episode I think "Ah! This looks like BOB leaving another body in the same form as before!" not "Aha! This is BOB being born!" I think the fact that the blob isn't egg-shaped makes me consider it different from the eggs we see. I figure that even if they'd made it clear that it was BOB by showing his face and making the shape darker, that it'd look more egg shaped if it was still an actual egg.

In my opinion. :-)
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by DeepBlueSeed »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Unforgivable missed opportunity: the interviewer doesn't ask about the selection process for Lorraine's "hip hop" track.
Hah! Loved that tune, simply because it reminds me of her few scenes. Went straight into my Spotify library.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by DeepBlueSeed »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
vicksvapor77 wrote:
Jasper wrote:
I think we can perceive it as a birthing of BOB into our reality. BOB can already exist in some way and be birthed into our reality.
Why aren't people okay with Bob being "born" in 1945? It doesn't mean evil didn't exist in the world before that, or even in Twin Peaks. Mark's book indicates a lot of this mythology goes back to Native American heritage that predates what we saw in Part 8. I would say perhaps Mother/Experiment existed before the nuke and then she created Bob and all the other countless evil "children?" That the nuke testing allowed the parallel universes to finally intersect? Though the name "Experiment" also indicates maybe she was born of the nuclear experiments, also.
If anything, this "origin story" explains why Bob looks like a denim-clad white dude, despite being part of a larger mythology that predates caucasians in the US. He's just one particular iteration/manifestation of something larger (and his "Depression-era drifter" look totally works for the 1945 era's stereotypical image of danger).
True. I like that idea.

I don't think BOB - as we've seen him - is ancient, to be fair. I do quite like the idea of him being Bob Denver from the book, but I'm happy for him to have been a newly created spirit, a new take on an old spirit or 'pre-incarnated' from the future. I've not seen enough to sway me too far in any one direction.
Last edited by DeepBlueSeed on Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by DeepBlueSeed »

(deleting accidental double post)
Last edited by DeepBlueSeed on Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Post by DeepBlueSeed »

Ragnell wrote:
dontlooknow wrote:i like how the 2-week-hiatus changes the quality of speculations towards experimental :)

on topic: are there any explanations yet for dougies wedding ring ending up in briggs' stomach?
Briggs swallowed the Owl Cave ring to keep it from Doppelcoop and some sort of magic changed it out with Dougie's wedding ring the day before Cooper left the Lodge?
Nice idea!
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