Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

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BloodyHeartland
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby BloodyHeartland » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:02 pm

Just catching up now, watched both 7 and 8 tonight. Who knows when I'll get to the rest. Interesting reading the first dozen pages and last few on here, don't have time to look at the rest unfortunately. So I'll probably repeat ideas or give some already disproven by the subsequent episodes, but here I go.

May as well start with thoughts from earlier episodes. Great to see some of the stuff from FWWM, particularly Harry Dean Stanton - know him more from Paris, Texas, but I think he did very well in his short part here. Interested to see where stuff with this Richard Horne will go.
Also, gets me to wondering where the ring came from, having the last place we knew about it being the trailer park, yet shows up on Dougie 25 years later, only to be put in the Black Lodge where young Laura will get it again???

Hate to sound discriminatory, don't know if he's got a name in the credits, but the midget hitman has been one of the more bizarre things I've seen done. I have to wonder whether he's some sort of counterpart to the MFAP, I guess kind of bad stereotyping this way but the fact the brain tree appeared during his encounter with Cooper, and whatever evil goop was on the gun, makes me think there might be more a supernatural element to him.
Side note: his choice of weapon being an ice pick is probably just for the sake of shock value, but it's funny to think maybe Lynch knows about Deadly Premonition. It didn't play much of a significant role there other than being purely functional for a small part of the story, but still stood out.

Getting to episode 8, it seems a bit inconsistent to me that Bad Coop could read the minds of everyone but still let Ray get the better of him...perhaps he was simply overconfident I guess. Also seems peculiar that evil spirits or whatever they are, are represented by hobos. Someone mentioned dark spirits being feeding off of light, hence the cigarettes, but beyond that, I have nothing...maybe appearing poor is an extension of that symbolism.

At first I thought the bug was meant to be Laura, but it seemed the Woodsman broadcasting his message served as a beacon for it to find who I'm assuming is Sarah, so I'm unsure...the bug could represent Laura as well as Bob, or rather the potential for corruption? As much a being of confliction as Laura would be by the end of her life, dragged between the pressure to live up to expectations of being good and pure, and the simultaneous temptation and fear of being consumed by base pleasures. Something like that, anyway. Both good and evil being borne of this devastating weapon seems right, at least, in some fashion. What it means for the present, I guess I'll see.

As far as talk goes of where the giant and his friend are, I'm not convinced it's the White Lodge. Not 100% on it, but I've seen a pretty convincing video on the Black Lodge either having once been the WL, or both being the other at once; and between both good and bad spirits there, and the floor pattern representing both colors, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

I think this world of purple sea may well be the same one Good Coop ended up in, though I'm not certain whether it's necessarily the same island or tower, or whether it is simply different more than 50 years later, if it's in linear time. Whereas the Black Lodge seems like some sort of purgatory or where both good and evil duke it out, this place seems more for life and death, or existence and nonexistince, maybe a bit too on the nose but still. Pure conjecture, but as with almost every facet of this show, concepts seem to mirror each other more so than to be in direct contrast, and thus one place can be two places at once, just like how the Palmers can each have such conflicting personalities, just as a few examples.

As for the quality of this episode, it's hard to say. Surely there's much more to chew on than some might have initially implied, but I have to say I'm not sure what footage is entirely necessary and what could really do with cutting down. I don't have an issue with abstract storytelling, but I suppose that depends on whether it's really just something the director thinks would look neat, or if it's actually a crucial piece in telling the story or even just setting the mood.
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ScarFace32
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby ScarFace32 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:46 pm

Anybody else feel that the Woodsmen's (aside from Abe Lincoln impersonator) movements were too extra-y?
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:11 pm

The
ScarFace32 wrote:Anybody else feel that the Woodsmen's (aside from Abe Lincoln impersonator) movements were too extra-y?


Well, the part where they lumbered around Ray in a circle did remind me a little of am-dram let's-pretend-to-be-bears. On the other hand, I think such movements are not meant to be naturalistic but to purposefully distantiate the actors' movements from any attempt at verisimilitude. In fact I fully expect lodge spirits and dramatis personae of the woodsmen kind to move according to a purposefully alienated choreography, so the jarring nature of that distancing was welcome for me.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:12 pm

Ok- I watched it again and have some stray observations.

1- The weird black BOB orb rose up out of Doppelcoop but we didn't necessarily see it "leave" him. Did the woodsmen people (what are we calling them?) take it? Is it still inside him? It was definitely 100 percent the same thing that the experiment/mother vomits out (among other things)

2- While I feel the Convenience Store and experiment/mother scenes are definitely caused by the bomb test, they are not necessarily located in the same area, because I feel it's notable that during those two moments the music stops, I think taking us elsewhere, and then we're back inside the blast and it starts up again.

3- The thing that hatches in the desert is not Laura OR BOB. It is clearly one of the other things (BOB orb among them) that experiment/mother vomits out. It's clearly evil, as the woodsmen seem to be there to help it find a host, but it's not BOB, just something from the same home as him.

4- the theater is definitely Silencio, but I always got a more Black Lodge feel for that place, and I definitely feel that the Giant is in the white lodge. Could there be a light and a dark version of silencio? Although- if the TP/MD connection theory is right, she escapes the old couple who were agents of the black lodge by taking her own life and would therefore likely be in the white lodge, so maybe silencio is good.

5- Did you notice that the victims/potential victims of the woodsmen are in slow motion? I wonder if these beings move at a speed faster than normal human perception. If the experiment is of the same species as these things, it definitely moved at a too fast to be perceptible speed when it was killing those two in NYC, plus when
Spoiler:
the woodsman kills Mathew Lillard in the cop car it seems to be at a quick/nearly imperceptible speed.
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Novalis
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:06 am

TheGum wrote:Ok- I watched it again and have some stray observations.

1- The weird black BOB orb rose up out of Doppelcoop but we didn't necessarily see it "leave" him. Did the woodsmen people (what are we calling them?) take it? Is it still inside him? It was definitely 100 percent the same thing that the experiment/mother vomits out (among other things)


I'm undecided as to whether BOB left Doppelcoop. As others have noted, he may have just been brought to the surface temporarily, perhaps through the presence of kindred spirits attending to Doppelcoop's wounds.

TheGum wrote:2- While I feel the Convenience Store and experiment/mother scenes are definitely caused by the bomb test, they are not necessarily located in the same area, because I feel it's notable that during those two moments the music stops, I think taking us elsewhere, and then we're back inside the blast and it starts up again.


I also wondered about this. The music cues are certainly not without relevance.

TheGum wrote:3- The thing that hatches in the desert is not Laura OR BOB. It is clearly one of the other things (BOB orb among them) that experiment/mother vomits out. It's clearly evil, as the woodsmen seem to be there to help it find a host, but it's not BOB, just something from the same home as him.


While I agree in principle, it's still notable that the bug shares the same mode of ingress as BOB: it climbs in the window and then enters into the interior of a prostrate, paralysed female -- albeit via a different orifice (sorry to be so blunt, but this is still a dreadful form of violation of the young girl).

TheGum wrote:5- Did you notice that the victims/potential victims of the woodsmen are in slow motion? I wonder if these beings move at a speed faster than normal human perception. If the experiment is of the same species as these things, it definitely moved at a too fast to be perceptible speed when it was killing those two in NYC, plus when
Spoiler:
the woodsman kills Mathew Lillard in the cop car it seems to be at a quick/nearly imperceptible speed.


Good points. As I previously said, I think the movement and dramatic action of the woodsmen actors is significant. Some are finding them 'extra-y', but I think this reception misses something. You can alienate gesture and movement in one of two ways: record naturalistic movements and then edit the film, or perform purposefully un-natural movements. You can also combine the two of course, but fundamentally these are the two methods. What you are noticing is one method, and my point of view is that what others are finding when they are finding the woodsmen's acting 'off' somehow, or lets say finding its 'performative efficiency' lacking, is the other method. Basically I agree with your conclusion -- they move differently to humans.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Meaxylon » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:22 am

TheGum wrote:Ok- I watched it again and have some stray observations.
......

5- Did you notice that the victims/potential victims of the woodsmen are in slow motion? I wonder if these beings move at a speed faster than normal human perception. If the experiment is of the same species as these things, it definitely moved at a too fast to be perceptible speed when it was killing those two in NYC, plus when
Spoiler:
the woodsman kills Mathew Lillard in the cop car it seems to be at a quick/nearly imperceptible speed.


Interesting observation. Since they flicker in and out of view, seeming to tranparent but being able to physically effect others, combined with their using of radio to transmit their message, I thought they could be likened to a physical phenomenon like air waves, sound waves. At first I connected them with radiation (with their connection to the nuclear test), or electricity (the sounds that are heard when they're near). They might be a phenomenon on their own, like the Blackfire that Hawk talks of: a fire that is like electricity combined with disease/death.

Them moving at a different speed might mean they're on a different wavelenght/frequency. Hasting"s head starting shaking as if vibrating.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:48 am

I think a different wavelength than humans for sure, in the flashback they hold the human heads and crush them fairly slowly, but Lillard's head seems to explode almost explosively. I also think we've seen what they look like from a human perspective but the flashback scene we're seeing them more directly, perhaps through their perspective, which is why the humans appear to move differently. They're obviously not of this world, and I think the fake "extra-y" movements are because they're essentially immitating humans, and it's super simplistic because they either view humans that way, or that is the extent to which they can be human like. That's why he just keeps saying gotta light. It's prepared slang he must have overheard and repeats to catch humans off guard, but he is unable to speak extemporaneously.

As for whether BOB left- I think it's supposed to have us guessing at this point and could go either way.
Spoiler:
It's significant that we haven't seen Doppelcoop since ep 9.


I agree the the means of ingress are absolutely notable, but the egg definitely matches eggs in the mother vom. I think evil like that from that place all operates the same. Specifically- it shows where they come from and how they operate but I don't think we'll see that girl again. Her purpose was as an illustration/example. There were many other eggs in that vom.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby TheGum » Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:51 am

It's also worth noting that the woodsman in FWWM move in a sped up/shaky way as well.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Jackpots » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:29 pm

TheGum wrote:They're obviously not of this world, and I think the fake "extra-y" movements are because they're essentially immitating humans, and it's super simplistic because they either view humans that way, or that is the extent to which they can be human like. That's why he just keeps saying gotta light. It's prepared slang he must have overheard and repeats to catch humans off guard, but he is unable to speak extemporaneously.

.


Why the Woodsman keeps asking "gotta light?" I find perplexing.

The best I can come up with is: the woodsmen appear to have broken through a seam in the universe/space/time a result of nuclear explosions on planet earth. The repetition aspect is nothing new to Peaks universe. The Woodsmen may be electric in nature and behave like recordings or broken records as opposed to beings with free will. I think the Woodsman repeats the phrase "gotta light?" Because they are interested in the nuclear explosions and the light that is released by them. Not sure if it gives them powers strenghts or abilities or what exactly.

I'm sure by the time this series reaches an end. We will get plenty more mysteries about the Woodsmen to think about.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:59 am

Mr. Jackpots wrote:...broken records...


Fantastic analogy. There's so many broken records in Twin Peaks.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:54 am

TheGum wrote
5- Did you notice that the victims/potential victims of the woodsmen are in slow motion?


end ep. 10 just after Cole/ Lynch sees Laura vision at door, Tammy arrives...in slow motion.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby wAtChLaR » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:55 pm

"Going My Way?"
"Gotta light?"
twilight zone

IMG_20170731_195048_496.jpg
IMG_20170731_195048_496.jpg (28.35 KiB) Viewed 902 times
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:36 am

wAtChLaR wrote:"Going My Way?"
"Gotta light?"
twilight zone

IMG_20170731_195048_496.jpg


Creepy episode!!


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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Northman » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:25 am

about part 8
Fantastic episode. Pretty sure this was mostly written by Frost as it reeked of the secret history of Twin Peaks. The delivery is pure Lynch though. This most amazing episode ever demonstrates for me why Frost/Lynch is such a perfect collaboration.
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Re: Part 8 - Gotta light? (SPOILERS)

Postby Fireboob » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:21 am

TheGum wrote:
3- The thing that hatches in the desert is not Laura OR BOB. It is clearly one of the other things (BOB orb among them) that experiment/mother vomits out. It's clearly evil, as the woodsmen seem to be there to help it find a host, but it's not BOB, just something from the same home as him.



It's the jumping man with the spikey nose mask on in FWWM, the bug even has a spikey nose like his, the little girl who's mouth he crawled in is more than likely Sarah Palmer, and im sure we will see more of this in the coming episodes, this im convinced of more after the hawk and SP scene in episode 12

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