Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: Jerry Horne, Brad D, Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross

User avatar
referendum
RR Diner Member
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:29 am

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:41 am

@novalis
One bizarre echoing I noticed was that Betty Briggs, with her haircut not a million miles from the one that Diane has, talks about Garland Briggs squeezing her shoulder, in an episode where we've seen Gordon Cole squeezing Diane's shoulder on the plane for an awkward looking 30 seconds or so. I don't know if that's international but I picked up on it second time through.


yeah i noticed that one aswell. There are lots of these echoes and repetitions. Around Ep 5 when i started to get sucked into this series i actually made a list of them, because they were bothering me, but then threw it away because there were so many of them.

Alot of people have mentioned ' surrealism' in relation to Lynch. I am not going to go there here, but note that the most famous ' surrealist' director is Luis Bunuel, who's 60's and 70's European films - from The Exterminating Angel onwards - have several stylistic quirks in common with Lynch - beyond both being rare examples of arthouse weirdness that get mainstream commercial release. The exterminating Angel, for instance, started off with a shot or people going into a party, and then a minute or so later, you get the same shot. The original script had everyline of dialogue in the film used twice, in different contexts and by different characters ( this was abandoned as being over-schematic although traces of it still remain in the finished film). The other obvious example is '' That obscure object of desire' Bunuel's last film, which uses two different actresses to play the same character, and interchanges them not-quite-randomly ( one has the affair and the other one is suspected of it). Also very 'Lynch'. I am not saying Lynch borrowed from Bunuel with this repetition / echo thing, more that it is a poetic device which both film-makers used. Not many directors approach film from this kind of angle or let that kind of stuff in.
Last edited by referendum on Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
''let's not overthink this opportunity''
User avatar
wxray
RR Diner Member
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 5:04 am

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:43 am

yaxomoxay wrote:Yes, Laura represents his voyage into darkness, so forgive him if he suffers from some PTSD.

I still have PTSD after seeing the deputy/drug dealer brains spattered everywhere. Bobby got a pretty good look at that as he was tossing a bit of dirt on the guy.

So, yeah, PTSD. That's gonna leave a mark.
User avatar
wxray
RR Diner Member
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 5:04 am

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:49 am

sewhite2000 wrote:Lillard/Hastings' sobbing about the simple joys of scuba diving and imbibing mixed drinks on beach, things he's probably never going to get to do now, made me think of Milhouse sobbing, "All I wanted was Carl Yastrzesmki with the big sideburns!" Sometimes, the simple pleasures are all we ask for.

People can get pretty messed up and emotional when they sense their life is over, but not over (prison, long term sickness, etc.).

I found it totally believable. Fuck Albert for calling him a fruitcake.
bosguy1981
Great Northern Member
Posts: 615
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:03 pm

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby bosguy1981 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:52 am

Am I the only one who was smiling ear-to-ear during Episode 9 after getting scenes with Jennifer Jason Leigh, Laura Dern, AND Naomi Watts all in the span of five minutes? I know not everybody is satisfied with the material given to their characters, but I just kinda have to pinch myself that these three great actresses have been incorporated into the world of Twin Peaks. Love it!
User avatar
wxray
RR Diner Member
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 5:04 am

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:54 am

afrank315 wrote:I watched Ep9 last night and awoke this morning, mind racing.

Has anyone theorized:

The "Diane" we see is the "mother" who killed the young couple outside of the glass box?

Her "daughter" has the same hairstyle. "Diane"'s hair is white, like that of Leland Palmer!

The real Diane is locked in the room in that house, banging on the door to get Cooper's attention to save her?

Crap. Sounds like you visited the red room! Seriously, I do like your theory.
Last edited by wxray on Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby LostInTheMovies » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:55 am

Jasper wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote:
Esselgee wrote:Well, I guess we now know that Tim Roth isn't playing Philip Jeffries.


Thank God.


I admit that I breathed a sigh of relief when I saw that Roth wasn't playing Jeffries. For a long time we've been living with the theory that Roth might be taking that role, but Bowie's just too one-of-a-kind for a recast.


Yeah nothing against Roth but the notion of recasting a character whose whole genesis was "let's put David Bowie in this movie!" makes me cringe almost as much as recasting Frank Siilva. Hope they have a creative solution (or that, God willing, Bowie actually did record something though I really, really doubt it).
Rhodes
RR Diner Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:35 am

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhodes » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:58 am

yaxomoxay wrote:I loved that Betty said to her son that the Major was certain of Bobby's good future. It reminded me of the dream that the Major told his son at the double R. I think that we can say at this point that was not only a dream, but the Major was just TELLING Bobby to not lose hope. Ever.
That episode made Bobby a better person and now we know why.


It reminded you? The connection was very, very Obvious. On the nose obvious. Not too subtle. I thought the scene with Betty was awful anyway. Just a talking head telling the audience what went down in the past. I am very surprised that so many liked and even loved this scene.

As Mr. Reindeer pointed out, the scene with Hastings was also a BIG letdown. A very cool plot with LH-potential turned into.... another talking head telling the viewers what happened. Very primitive, lazy storytelling.

I said yesterday that this was one of the weaker episodes. But reading some of the excellent posts here, I'm now sure it was the worst. (Although it is not easy for an episode right after the magnificent part 8 ).
User avatar
wxray
RR Diner Member
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 5:04 am

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:01 am

Metamorphia wrote:I honestly thought Chrysta Bell was really good in E9.


I joined here when the TP:TR started. I wasn't reading here, or most anywhere, about all the behind the scenes stuff. I did no studying on anything. I went into this cold, on purpose. It seems to me that people who have been connected to the fan community, and especially to the secret history book, were really put off by her and and some other things.

I don't have a problem with her.

As a matter of fact, when TP:S1 came out, I was kind of pissed at the Dale Cooper persona. After Blue Velvet and Dune, I wasn't ready for what Kyle was portraying. He was "too perfect", too pretty, too chatty, etc. Hell, the guy even did upside down sit ups! Too damn perfect! Pretty boy.

I grew to love him. And it sounds like to those who had preconceived notions, the Tammy character rubbed them the same way (especially those who visited the actress/singer's web site).
User avatar
DeepBlueSeed
RR Diner Member
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:32 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:04 am

referendum wrote:@novalis
One bizarre echoing I noticed was that Betty Briggs, with her haircut not a million miles from the one that Diane has, talks about Garland Briggs squeezing her shoulder, in an episode where we've seen Gordon Cole squeezing Diane's shoulder on the plane for an awkward looking 30 seconds or so. I don't know if that's international but I picked up on it second time through.


yeah i noticed that one aswell. There are lots of these echoes and repetitions. Around Ep 5 when i started to get sucked into this series i actually made a list of them, because they were bothering me, but then threw it away because there were so many of them.

Alot of people have mentioned ' surrealism' in relation to Lynch. I am not going to go there here, but note that the most famous ' surrealist' director is Luis Bunuel, who's 60's and 70's European films - from The Exterminating Angel onwards - have several stylistic quirks in common with Lynch - beyond both being rare examples of arthouse weirdness that get mainstream commercial release. The exterminating Angel, for instance, started off with a shot or people going into a party, and then a minute or so later, you get the same shot. The original script had everyline of dialogue in the film used twice, in different contexts and by different characters ( this was abandoned as being over-schematic although traces of it still remain in the finished film). The other obvious example is '' That obscure object of desire' Bunuel's last film, which uses two different actresses to play the same character, and interchanges them not-quite-randomly ( one has the affair and the other one is suspected of it). Also very 'Lynch'. I am not saying Lynch borrowed from Bunuel with this repetition / echo thing, more that it is a poetic device which both film-makers used. Not many directors approach film from this kind of angle or let that kind of stuff in.


I love The Exterminating Angel. I can't remember how I stumbled across it now, but it's one that's a fascinating study of people trapped in an impossible situation, as I guess people often are in dreams.
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "
User avatar
wxray
RR Diner Member
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 5:04 am

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:09 am

bosguy1981 wrote:Am I the only one who was smiling ear-to-ear during Episode 9 after getting scenes with Jennifer Jason Leigh, Laura Dern, AND Naomi Watts all in the span of five minutes? I know not everybody is satisfied with the material given to their characters, but I just kinda have to pinch myself that these three great actresses have been incorporated into the world of Twin Peaks. Love it!

You are not the only one. JJL and LD are near my age, and I've always followed them. NW is younger, but a real gem to the film world.

I do have to say that JJL does seem to be having a bit too much fun with her role, though. :)
Rhodes
RR Diner Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:35 am

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhodes » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:12 am

vicksvapor77 wrote:Very well stated. Even Ben has a tenuous connection to the main plot with receiving Cooper's key. It would be nice to see them connect Andy and Lucy to the main plot eventually. I hope it happens.


I think it is very important NOT to connect (all of the) original cast to the main plot. That would make The Return very contrived.
User avatar
Nighthawk
RR Diner Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:49 am

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Nighthawk » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:13 am

The Gazebo wrote:Just goes to show that it's not only the generally disappointed group that has expectations of what TP should be. I'm genuinly interested in individual reactions to the show's progression, and I think every viewer has his/her own "sweet spot", ranging from full blown Lynchian surrealism to the more conventional investigation-type episodes. Straying too far from this "sweet spot" leaves the viewer unsure about where this is headed. Based on what we have seen so far I expect a continued diversity when it comes to pacing, plot, themes, subtext, etc.

As for your general concerns, I also feel that they might have made it too intricate. There are a helluva lot of plots that needs to be woven together (and probably explained in some fashion) in the space of only nine episodes.


I think parts 7 and 8, despite being wildly different, were both phenomenal and set a benchmark for the rest of the season. Part 9 didn't quite live up to that standard in my opinion, and I agree with the general notion that it was too formulaic. As to plot-based vs. surrealist episodes, I think both are needed. The plot has to go somewhere, we can't watch levitating giants for 18 straight hours, but I doubt that a typical viewer/fan has been let down by a lack of Lynchian weirdness. We've seen a plenty, and it's been glorious, almost all of it.
LateReg
Bookhouse Member
Posts: 1125
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:25 am

counterpaul wrote:Something I'm genuinely surprised not to have seen discussed at all yet:

When Bushnell mentions that he wants to work together and "get some answers," Coop repeats "answers" back, but in a tone of voice nothing like what we've heard from him so far. KM's delivery of that line, along with the more somber and intense look on his face, seems incredibly significant to me.

After Part 9 ended last night, the first thing my girlfriend said to me (she watches the show with me every week, but she's not a lifer super-fan like me--she's maybe somewhat representative of how a "casual" viewer of this show, if such creatures exist, might be seeing things) was, "Looks like Coop had a breakthrough." To which I said, "Indeed!"

I expected a lot of people to be talking about that "answers" moment here. I'm not a part of the Coop-better-wake-up-soon-or-the-show-is-a-failure brigade at all (I find this storyline exceedingly moving and truthful), but I do think we're seeing a steady forward-trajectory here. And the experience with Ike definitely seems to have affected him. I never have, and still don't, think this is going to be one of those things where a single catalyst brings him totally back to himself all at once. I think it's going to keep being this kind of slow, incremental progress. But it also makes sense that certain events (like almost getting killed) would cause little leaps along the way.

Coop is putting the pieces together and we're watching it happen. It's a beautiful thing.


I definitely noticed that. He "repeats" what the guy is saying in a much more commanding way than usual. Sharper, crisper, more knowing. Also interesting is that it seems, as of right now anyway, that Lynch/Frost/Maclachlan put fans through the ringer by giving them the full Dougie experience through long scenes in Part 3 thru 6, making us FEEL Cooper's plight. Now that that has been fully established, in Parts 7 and 9 Dougie-Coop's scenes have been shorter and more, I guess you can say, to the point. This seems like a fitting and purposeful trajectory for the show as plot points continue to converge that also coincides with Cooper's awakening.
User avatar
Nighthawk
RR Diner Member
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:49 am

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Nighthawk » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:29 am

Trudy Chelgren wrote:All that being said, there was some wonderful, stand-out moments in this Part; Badalamenti's music was so beautiful throughout, and went a long way to make up for Betty Briggs' sometimes cloying dialogue. Bobby was great, Ike "the Spike" was great, Johnny racing around the house was hilarious, Diane's "IT'S A FUCKING MORGUE", DoppelCoop walking through the farmland, Hutch, Chad's huffing and puffing in the conference room. Lynch has given himself arguably one of the best roles.


I am still not a fan of Diane as a character. At first I thought she was being obnoxious and vulgar towards people who have done her some great harm in the past, but it seems that that's just her default behavior. It's unrealistic that the guy at the morgue would just be silenced by her senseless verbal abuse rather than tell her to put out the cig or beat it. He's in charge of the place and I don't see why he would be intimidated in the slightest. Albert was super obnoxious in the original seasons, but he had it thrown back in his face several times, not to mention getting knocked down by Harry Truman.
User avatar
DeepBlueSeed
RR Diner Member
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:32 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:34 am

Do we think the FBI will return to the prison to talk to the warden at the same time as Bad Coop's minions arrive to kill him, or will he get killed somewhere other than work, before he gets to work?

I wonder if the warden has taken any precautions too, given that he was warned. Dramatically I'm suspecting there will be some sort of bloody violent scene, but I don't see the warden surviving unless the FBI are there to save him.
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "

Return to “Parts Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests