Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

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EddyEdson
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby EddyEdson » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:18 am

Ross wrote:I wouldn't bet on the events of the book jiving with the show. Perhaps the whole dossier was just a narrative device created for the book.


Apparently Lynch never read the book, and referred to it as "*his* [Frost's] history of Twin Peaks" - ie not Lynch's.

http://www.gq.com/story/david-lynch-twin-peaks-profile

Somebody suggested somewhere else that it's best to view the book as more-or-less fanfic. This works for me - TP S3 doesn't depend on the book at all, really, at least so far & as far as I can see. I think it's also pretty spot-on as a comment on quality - IMO the books is pretty much dreck.
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eyeboogers
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:50 am

EddyEdson wrote:
Ross wrote:I wouldn't bet on the events of the book jiving with the show. Perhaps the whole dossier was just a narrative device created for the book.


Apparently Lynch never read the book, and referred to it as "*his* [Frost's] history of Twin Peaks" - ie not Lynch's.

http://www.gq.com/story/david-lynch-twin-peaks-profile

Somebody suggested somewhere else that it's best to view the book as more-or-less fanfic. This works for me - TP S3 doesn't depend on the book at all, really, at least so far & as far as I can see. I think it's also pretty spot-on as a comment on quality - IMO the books is pretty much dreck.


Lynch merely said to ask Mark about the book and Lynch about the show. Makes sense, if you can't see any connectors between the book and show you must have been watching something else.
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AgentEcho
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:14 am

EddyEdson wrote:
Ross wrote:I wouldn't bet on the events of the book jiving with the show. Perhaps the whole dossier was just a narrative device created for the book.


Apparently Lynch never read the book, and referred to it as "*his* [Frost's] history of Twin Peaks" - ie not Lynch's.

http://www.gq.com/story/david-lynch-twin-peaks-profile

Somebody suggested somewhere else that it's best to view the book as more-or-less fanfic. This works for me - TP S3 doesn't depend on the book at all, really, at least so far & as far as I can see. I think it's also pretty spot-on as a comment on quality - IMO the books is pretty much dreck.


Calling the book fanfic effectively is an attempt to strip Frost credit as co-creator of the franchise. It's one thing to call the books dreck, it's another thing to retcon reality so Frost is no longer the co-creator of the franchise as co-writer of the new series. Like it or not reality actually elevates anything Frost writes with the name Twin Peaks attached above being fan fiction.
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sylvia_north
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:22 am

David told a friend of mine one-on-one not to bother with it (I'm paraphrasing) and that it's irrelevant to the show, that it's just Mark's thing. The inconsistencies are fun and plant seeds of multiverses (and the grand unified conspiracy theory) in your head. It would be hilarious if the dossier only exists in the reality where things happened as they did in the dossier, and we never see it in the show. However, something is at Jack Rabbit's Palace
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mtwentz
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:48 am

sylvia_north wrote:David told a friend of mine one-on-one not to bother with it (I'm paraphrasing) and that it's irrelevant to the show, that it's just Mark's thing. The inconsistencies are fun and plant seeds of multiverses (and the grand unified conspiracy theory) in your head. It would be hilarious if the dossier only exists in the reality where things happened as they did in the dossier, and we never see it in the show. However, something is at Jack Rabbit's Palace


An analogous situation to this would be the '2001 A Space Odyssey' novel by Arthur C. Clarke. I remember a film analyst stating that Clarke's and Kubrick's interpretation of the events in the film could be quite different, and one could not rely on Clarke's novelization to explain everything in the film.

That being said, I think Clarke's novelization helped a lot of us at least begin to understand 2001. It remains to be seen whether Frost's Secret History will do the same.
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JohnPalSki
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby JohnPalSki » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:15 am

I have to say that I was NOT the least bit convinced that Diane and DopCoop were in cahoots.. but I am rewatching episode 9, and I saw that Diane first checks her phone, and sees that there is a call from a blocked number. There's a look of obvious distress on her face.

When I watched the scene where DopCoop is sending the text "around the dinner table..", I paused and noticed that the screen on the phone says 2/2.. as though he is responding to a text. That could be reaching but I noticed it.
The other thing that could explain that exchange, is that Diane gets a call, and doesn't answer it because it's blocked. And then, because she doesn't pick up, DopCoop texts instead. If that's the case, I could see that Diane isn't in cahoots with him.


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sylvia_north
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:25 am

JohnPalSki wrote:I paused and noticed that the screen on the phone says 2/2.. as though he is responding to a text. That could be reaching but I noticed it.
The other thing that could explain that exchange, is that Diane gets a call, and doesn't answer it because it's blocked. And then, because she doesn't pick up, DopCoop texts instead. If that's the case, I could see that Diane isn't in cahoots with him.


It's been a minute since I've had a flipphone, but the 2/2 part means it's the second part of the message you're sending, right? Unlike a smartphone where you can write a novel in a single text.

When she sees it's blocked, couldn't that just mean her reception is blocked? Because you can't get a call if a number is blocked, that I know of.

I am interested in what Diane knows to understand this code.
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:35 am

JohnPalSki wrote:I have to say that I was NOT the least bit convinced that Diane and DopCoop were in cahoots.. but I am rewatching episode 9, and I saw that Diane first checks her phone, and sees that there is a call from a blocked number. There's a look of obvious distress on her face.

When I watched the scene where DopCoop is sending the text "around the dinner table..", I paused and noticed that the screen on the phone says 2/2.. as though he is responding to a text. That could be reaching but I noticed it.
The other thing that could explain that exchange, is that Diane gets a call, and doesn't answer it because it's blocked. And then, because she doesn't pick up, DopCoop texts instead. If that's the case, I could see that Diane isn't in cahoots with him.


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Yeah, I kind of got the idea he was stalking her. It's possible that he's been calling and sending messages for the past 25 years, actually, and she doesn't trust Gordon to do anything about it. In that case, her parallel with Laura in Ep 7 still makes sense, it's her interacting with a long-term abuser that's behind the face of someone she once loved and trusted. And she doesn't trust that those around her will take her side over his.

So, my suspicion is he visited her after he replaced the Good Dale and his behavior terrified her that first night. Maybe he assaulted her sexually or just physically, maybe he just came very close to violence and was disturbingly threatening. After that, he left contacted her regularly. Calls in the middle of the night, creepy answering machine messages, moving up to creepy voicemails, emails and texts as technology improved. She may be regularly changing her phone number, which is why Albert and Gordon had to recruit her in person. And naturally, after having seen him in person, she expects he will circumvent the prison system and contact her in some way and finds a blocked number tried to call her. Then gets a creepy text after she knows he escaped.

I see this as more likely than her in cahoots or him having physically assaulted her once and disappeared. Diane's relationship with Coop was over his tape recordings. There was along-distance/message aspect to it and if Doppelcoop wants to play out a corrupted version of that relationship, wants to truly rot that bond from the inside out, he wouldn't do it through one night of terror and then leaving for 25 years. He would freak her out in person, then stalk her to drag out the abuse long distance over a long period of time.

As for why she doesn't seem as distressed in the morgue? She was expecting this, and is now just reserved to this misery.
dronerstone
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby dronerstone » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:37 am

I also see it that way - it's simply that her reception/network is blocked, because she's on a Bureau plane with a private phone.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby seacow » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:01 am

Doppel Coop's flip phone also reads 11:09p while it's clearly daylight at the farm... Probably just a production mistake I hope, otherwise I have no idea :lol: the 2/2 thing is interesting though. Second of two messages. Maybe the first one was the capitalized version sent to Diane and the second is to someone else.

Diane's expression while reading it makes me think "that last night" at Diane's house is not indication of an assault. I think maybe Bad Coop got her into some bad stuff by blackmailing her, and now he's doing it again. She seemed nervous, like she had to do something now, or like someone would find out what she did... Just my take. The beauty of Laura Dern's acting, you can interpret it a million different ways.
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:20 am

seacow wrote:Doppel Coop's flip phone also reads 11:09p while it's clearly daylight at the farm... Probably just a production mistake I hope, otherwise I have no idea :lol: the 2/2 thing is interesting though. Second of two messages. Maybe the first one was the capitalized version sent to Diane and the second is to someone else.

Diane's expression while reading it makes me think "that last night" at Diane's house is not indication of an assault. I think maybe Bad Coop got her into some bad stuff by blackmailing her, and now he's doing it again. She seemed nervous, like she had to do something now, or like someone would find out what she did... Just my take. The beauty of Laura Dern's acting, you can interpret it a million different ways.


Whatever it is, I think he's definitely victimizing her and that scene in ep 7 was her true feelings even if she has been in contact with him.
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Framed_Angel
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:26 am

DeepBlueSeed wrote:
Daliz wrote:Mr C. hires Duncan Todd to take out DougieCoop (after 2:53 on a certain day)

Following this logic I think the two targets are DougieCoop and Duncan Todd.
Plan C for Todd might be that he tries to take out DougieCoop himself.


Strangely I ended up following this logic to a different conclusion. If Duncan Todd was responsible for hiring Ike to kill Lorraine for a botched hit then Mr C is not responsible for killing people who've failed him. So Mr C is less concerned in covering those tracks than Duncan Todd was.

At the very least it seems odd that he'd order a hit on Duncan Todd before waiting to see whether he succeeds this time. His priority is to kill DougieCoop. He can clean up after that goal has been achieved.
I tend to agree, after seeing Duncan Todd's Part 9 scene again: when he's given the threat "It better be done next time I call," I take Mr C to mean exactly that, he's reinforced his directive and there will be another call to follow up. Then they hang up, Todd summons Roger and the scene ends. It doesn't give me the feeling Mr C will then put the hit on him, even though Duncan acts scared shitless and Roger has voiced his unease with their whole gig. Mr C I'd think would have more interest in eliminating Dougie's spouse as well as Dougie. Or Ike as the 2nd target. Duncan's scenes have been super short but loaded with little mysterious gestures and I think there's more to unspool here.

I guess "Tell her she's got the job" was Duncan telling Roger back in Part 1 or 2, that Lorraine was hired?
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Framed_Angel
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:39 am

kafa81 wrote:
Framed_Angel wrote:- I liked how Gordon announces "a waiting room!" and then some scenes later (or earlier?) there's Dougie and Janey-E, effectively passing time waiting while in for all practical purposes, a waiting area.
I thought the waiting room thing was a nod to the red room in the first series...this is the waiting room...the LMFAP says it...right?
Exactly -- and why not both? Part of TP's appeal for me is noticing double meanings. However, one can get carried away. It was after thinking "This is the least dialogue I've heard from Janey-E all season!" that I thought about the fact they're waiting, saying very little, and it felt like a waiting room for them.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:43 am

djsunyc wrote:diane's phone would say "unknown" b/c dopplecoop no longer had his phone. he was running through burners. i am in the camp that believes diane and dopplecoop are in cahoots.

also...i am in 100% an audrey/coop shipper. if they don't end up together, i will personally go to david lynch's house and....politely ask him why!!! :)

i demand it

You honestly think they are going to put Cooper and Audrey together at the end of this!??
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Framed_Angel
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:48 am

seacow wrote:Doppel Coop's flip phone also reads 11:09p while it's clearly daylight at the farm... Probably just a production mistake I hope, otherwise I have no idea :lol: the 2/2 thing is interesting though. Second of two messages.
I have a flipfone. The 2/2 on mine indicates when a message I'm typing has exceeded some character minimum, and the recipient will get like a "page 2" of the same message in two texts in their inbox. It makes me wonder what was in the first part of the message, if that was the same kind of cell phone. And, as someone suggested, if such messages were intercepted for her!

I'm wondering about the bobbed haircut we keep seeing on numerous different women now. The two dark-haired women Dale encounters in the "Purple Room" in part 3; then Diane's haircut is similar: and now Betty. It's Betty's that bothers me the most! Plus I'm not sitting well with how she led the Sheriff & deputies in to show them the weird capsule Maj Briggs left for them. "This is the chair", so resonant with the previous episode's "This is the water..." - - but even as she added "Watch here," there was nothing significant about the chair except its hidden chamber containing the capsule, which was what Briggs left his message in. So why all the fuss about the chair at all? And why is Betty's hair styled the same as those other three ladies'?
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