Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:39 am

Yeesh, it's time-shifting to 8pm?! For some reason I thought it was going to 10. I haven't watched a show in that early a timeslot in years. Strikes me as a weird programming move on a prestige cable network.

We typically have my sister and her boyfriend over for GoT. It's borderline hate-watching for my girlfriend and me at this point because of how royally (no pun intended) they've screwed up/oversimplified the complex world of the books, but it's a tradition/bonding thing at this point. So the 8pm slot actually works well for me; I can watch TP before they come over (as opposed to rushing everyone out as soon as GoT ends so I can watch Peaks).
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby NonStopKnits » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:49 am

I guess its probably just me, but did anyone else think the red coffee mug Dale had at the police station was gonna go through a window? They seemed to really emphasize the mug to me with the bright red of it and how they shot it. That could just be Lynch/Deming/whomever choices though...

I really enjoyed this part, not a Tammy fan, but I liked her performance here a lot.
Hester Prynne
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:20 am

In that case... prepare for disappointment.[/quote]

Happy to hear this - just a matter of waiting now.

And when it did it become faux pas to love Audrey as a character or recognize her significance in the show? I loved her in the original run and the strange friendship she had with Coop. I also loved seeing a different side of Coop's character whenever they interacted.

I always thought James was the character some fans disliked the most - I'm not in that category - but why does the mere mention of hoping Audrey has an important role in the show cause some fans to cringe? The red shoes for instance - it's like some fans were bending over backwards to find any explanation other than it being a nod to Audrey. I agree DKL leaves just about everything open to interpretation, but to me this was too obvious. Relax, it's just a reminder of her shoes.

- Not trying to hate on anyone. This has just always seemed weird to me.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby WhiteLodge90 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:27 am

Hester Prynne wrote:In that case... prepare for disappointment.



And when it did it become faux pas to love Audrey as a character or recognize her significance in the show? I loved her in the original run and the strange friendship she had with Coop. I also loved seeing a different side of Coop's character whenever they interacted.

I always thought James was the character some fans disliked the most - I'm not in that category - but why does the mere mention of hoping Audrey has an important role in the show cause some fans to cringe? The red shoes for instance - it's like some fans were bending over backwards to find any explanation other than it being a nod to Audrey. I agree DKL leaves just about everything open to interpretation, but to me this was too obvious. Relax, it's just a reminder of her shoes.

- Not trying to hate on anyone. This has just always seemed weird to me.[/quote]


I think it's because some fans don't like how Sherylin has behaved. Not to get into that right now but that's my best guess. James I'd say out of all the main characters from Twin Peaks was the most hated. I personally liked him for the most part all though he could be a bit cheesy towards the end. Donna for me was always my least favorite main character but I still liked her well enough.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:42 am

Yeh, the Audrey-hate does seem to be a relatively recent thing, probably related to Sherilyn shooting her mouth off so much during shooting, and signing on late (presumably causing at best inconvenience for the production, at worst changes to the script/planned narrative and a possible recast of Johnny). It definitely seems to be similar to fans turning on Donna as a character after it came to light that the actress had behaved in a manner arguably against the show's best interests (I still think it betrays a certain gender bias that LFB gets crucified while Kyle gets off scott free). I have no problem separating the character from the actor. I love Audrey and MfAP despite my feelings about the behavior of the actors who play them. (Btw, not to dredge stuff up, but it looks like MJA has been Facebook-silent since the new show debuted to critical acclaim :lol: )

It is difficult to imagine what Audrey's role is, and I'm genuinely curious if L/F will return to the Coop/Audrey relationship. I don't expect to see them riding off into the sunset together or anything, but that friendship was one of the most successful/beloved elements of the show before things went off the rails, and it has its genesis in the early episodes that L/F wrote themselves before other influences began to carry the show in other directions. I could definitely see DKL wanting to honor/acknowledge that part of the story in a way that gives it the closure it deserves, one way or another.
Last edited by Mr. Reindeer on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:43 am

I don't get it either, and not trying to start yet another endless debate.

When this show was firing on all cylinders, she was the perfect female protagonist for this type of this new strange show. Hell, even her face was basically reading the definition of Twin Peaks. ...literally. Two almost otherworldly perfectly arched eyebrows and a beauty mark... Peak... Peak... Period. Synchronicity almost as spooky as the final casting of three actresses... Lara FLYNN, SheriLYN Fenn, SHERYL Lee.

She had some of the best writing. Aside from Cooper's detective skills, she was the other character given scenes where it seems she too was pulling a rabbit out of her hat. And she was the perfect ying/yang to phantom Laura.

Granted, I think her character is terrible in the back end of the second season... I cringe when she perikily says, "daddy" unironically.... But then again, I think all the characters are terrible in that stretch (not the actors) until the finale when Lynch taps into their essence again.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Trudy Chelgren » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:03 am

I have a lot of faith in Audrey in this story, so it hasn't been something I've thought deeply about.

I'm so curious to see how Janey-E exits the story. At first I found Watts' performance to be kind of grating and one-note, but I think I've fallen in love with her "don't fuck with me" attitude to everything, from defending her husband to berating him, and dealing with the police and loan sharks.

I assume Cooper's going to 'wake up' after having some kind of contact with someone who knew him; Laura, maybe. Something profound. He's so isolated in this life, and what will Janey-E and Sonny Jim do when Cooper has to, inevitably, leave? Will Cooper even talk to them again, will he know he's spent time with them? Maybe that time will become like a half-remembered dream to Cooper.

Despite Cooper not really belonging in Dougie's life, I'll be sad to see that 'family' dissolve, and be left behind. I hope Cooper talks to Sonny Jim articulately. Would he be guilty about being an absent father he never was? How could someone reconcile that?
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Harry Yallrite
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Harry Yallrite » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:09 am

Two things just occurred to me -

1. What if that last occasion when Cooper saw Diane @ her apartment was OUR Cooper - not Mr. C - and it occurred prior to his heading for Twin Peaks to investigate Laura's murder?

2. What if Diane thinks the text she received in PT 9 was from someone else, and NOT Mr. C?

In other words, Diane is NOT in cahoots with Bad Coop at all - but Bad Coop is pretending to be someone else (say, the guy she's living with) and tricking her into a meeting by using a phrase she's familiar with someone else using?

This would make a lot more sense to me & would explain
- Her reaction in the jail meeting (I don't buy that was all an act in case Cole/Albert were
watching)
- Her breakdown afterwards in the parking lot (again, I don't think it was all a charade)

- Her demeanor after reading the text, and her behavior around Cole during the cig break
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Hester Prynne
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:29 am

Audrey Horne wrote:When this show was firing on all cylinders, she was the perfect female protagonist for this type of this new strange show.


Could not agree more! This is one of the reasons we have been longing to see what happens with her character this season.
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:34 am

I like Audrey, and hope she has something important in the show, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of her as a major love interest for Cooper as his life has gone. Before the third season started, I was open to it, though I preferred their friendship as friendship -- as a young girl prone to stupid crushes, something spoke to me in how Cooper turned her down. How he made her still feel important and loved and valuable without needing to be in a sexual relationship. How he made it clear she was desirable, but that you didn't always need to act on desire and could still build a bond. But then they wrote her out of his plotline, which weakened that to me.

This was not over dueling ships, though, because I don't think Annie and Cooper had much chemistry (she seems like a rebound) and have no attachment to Caroline. Nor do I really see him romantically with Diane. Cooper, I think, excels at platonic relationships with women and I'm happier with him and Diane remaining professional. (I will, however, admit to thinking Cooper and Laura would be pretty good, but not a dealbreaker for me either way.)

Now that season 3's progressed a little, I've gone from simply preferring they not pick up the romance to be actively against Cooper taking up with Audrey in the end. He's probably still attracted to her, he's probably thinking of her at points, but... it does not fit his character after this mess with Janey-E. Cooper spent 25 years in the Black Lodge, and from how he reacts as Dougie it looks like the only affectionate human contact he got was that kiss from Laura in Part 2. He waited 2 years after Caroline to have a rebound romance. He's come out of the Black Lodge into a life with a wife and child, a wife who frightened him at first but who's been caring for and defending him. A wife who's actually a good fit in personality terms.

If Janey-E is not the end-game partner for Cooper (though I think she's being set up for one), it means this plotline is going to end with a lot of heartbreak and regret. And if Cooper picks up ANOTHER romance before Season 3 ends, having just wrapped up this complicated emotional family thing, it will seem really out of character. It'll feel like he's left his family to run off with this fantasy woman, and that just doesn't seem like something Dale would be comfortable with and it's certainly not something I as a viewer would be comfortable with.

So I like Audrey, but when her fans argue that she needs to return as a primary love interest for Cooper, after all this has been set up, I wince. It seems like a prioritization of Audrey's attractiveness and crush over the best parts of Cooper's personality, and that bothers me a lot.

When it comes down to it, I'd rather have Dale Cooper's core personality, that compassion and empathy and sense of right and wrong, intact than any of my ships--including Janey-E and Dale--sailing.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:40 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
It is difficult to imagine what Audrey's role is, and I'm genuinely curious if L/F will return to the Coop/Audrey relationship. I don't expect to see them riding off into the sunset together or anything, but that friendship was one of the most successful/beloved elements of the show before things went off the rails, and it has its genesis in the early episodes that L/F wrote themselves before other influences began to carry the show in other directions. I could definitely see DKL wanting to honor/acknowledge that part of the story in a way that gives it the closure it deserves, one way or another.


Great post. I do hope that L/F revisit that friendship and resolve/recognize that part of the original story in some way.
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Agent Sam Stanley
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:49 am

I don't have a problem with Audrey, she was one of my favorites in S1.
Regarding Audrey and Cooper, IMO that ship sailed 25 years ago and to expect something in that regard in the new show is a little eye rolling, but I'm curious to see what happened to her character just as much as any other character from the old show.
Still she's far from being a priority. When it comes to seeing Laura again and Audrey again, there's just no contest.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:52 am

Ragnell wrote:So I like Audrey, but when her fans argue that she needs to return as a primary love interest for Cooper, after all this has been set up, I wince. It seems like a prioritization of Audrey's attractiveness and crush over the best parts of Cooper's personality, and that bothers me a lot.

Which is the exact reason I didn't think they should take their relationship there in season 2.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:58 am

'I am dead, yet I live '

Is it possible Laura is reincarnated as Becky?
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:25 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Yeh, the Audrey-hate does seem to be a relatively recent thing, probably related to Sherilyn shooting her mouth off so much during shooting, and signing on late (presumably causing at best inconvenience for the production, at worst changes to the script/planned narrative and a possible recast of Johnny).

As I mentioned before, I ignored this board and ignored everything Twin Peaks until a few months ago.

When I look up Sherilyn Fenn, all I see is loving, glowing quotes from her about DKL and the production. I guess the stuff you guys are talking about was long ago.

I have hope. Granted, it looks like a more minimal role, but I have hope.

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