Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

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Audrey Horne
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:44 pm

My gut is something like Donna being Ben's daughter is something that will never be addressed. Maybe it's my bias but I think Lynch and Frost will ignore a lot of the end of season two plots, concentrating on when it was most crystallized to their original vision. Things like Donna as Ben's daughter, Mike and Nadine, Little Nicky, John Justice Wheeler.
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alreadygoneplaces
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby alreadygoneplaces » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:55 pm

On the Audrey debate... I thought she was a great character and an important part of the original show, and if they have managed to find a plot for her that works, then great. Having said that, I just don't really think Audrey is necessary in The Return, and I'd be happy just to have a simple one scene catch up. Really the only one of the cameo appearances from S1+2 characters we've seen so far that I'd be really disappointed if they didn't develop further is Sarah Palmer.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby ScarFace32 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:55 pm

Where is the info on the time change coming from?
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:20 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:There shouldn't be a contest... All the original characters were great, and needed.

Yeah, believe it or not, I don't give a hoot about A and C skipping through fields of flowers together... Now or even back then. I just care about ingredients that work... And I always thought Cooper and Truman, and Cooper and Audrey were the constants in terms of grounding the show. They were the big three for me that (back in 1990) I thought once the LP mystery finished and we moved onto the next big thing (which originally seemed like Frost suggested, it would be one mystery after another) that would probably always be around in the thick of things. And naturally with Laura always a cipher of unsolvable mystery... And Lucy always answering the phone.

So for me, it probably only feels like a satisfying endgame Return if Cooper has those magical scenes of reconnecting with both Audrey and Truman as his main anchors. I love Robert Forster, but this thing would already feel a hundred times even more grounded if Ontkean were in his place (and I already feel Lynch and Frost are knocking it out of the park with this series).

I love Audrey, but certainly more than The Girl/love interest of protagonist. What worked about her initial infatuation with Cooper was the it really awakened a purpose in herself... His idealism and purity made her strive to be a better, inspired person. Or getting sidetracked in an instant from her flirt game when meeting someone like Denise, "they have women agents?!" Showing she can do these things. That was what was gratifying about the character... And then it went all down hill where she does become just The Girl with pedestrian John Wheeler scenes.

Okay, we really need the new episode ...for my own rambling sanity.


That's part of what was beautiful about him turning her down, too. She's a girl in the middle of this town, this town where every man in his 20s, 30s and 40s had no problems exploiting girls her age, and she meets a guy who does want her, but turns her down even in her bed. It's a major growth moment for her, that he makes her feel like she's still valuable even if she isn't the love of his life.

I'd add that I hope that when she comes back, she's not the madam of One-Eyed Jack's or the Anonymous Billionaire who had no problem sacrificing some poor guy's life to try and trap something from the Lodges, but is like Bobby, one of the troubled teens of the original who managed to turn their lives away from darkness after the events of the show. I know, ending on the explosion and some time in a coma may have left her with a disability or a scar of some sort, but I hope she's still trying to live a life on the side of light.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:28 pm

One of the problems with the old show is so many characters were tangential to the main plot, having nothing directly to do with Laura's murder or the black lodge. Now that the show is mainly focused on the black lodge, many beloved characters are simply not necessary to the story. So we can either have short visits with them or we can arbitrarily squeeze them into the plot.
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Audrey Horne
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:40 pm

Yeah, but she doesn't fall for him until after he rebukes her. Before then it's all fun, and she goes into his bed because it's like a drug to mask her sadness. When he actually talks to her as a real person and he leaves to get the milk shake, that's when she loves him all the more. And certainly after the show became a hit and they were writing and filming the beginning of the second season, it is reinforced he's falling for her. (The dictation to Diane, the Ben Horne scenes, the zoom in on his face when he learns she's missing, the swelling music and loaded pause in his room before Maddys body is found). We know all this was the groundwork... It's akin to having all those Leland scenes at the beginning of season two, and we found out later Ray Wise refused to do it, so they made Norma the killer at the last minute.

I'd say based on Frost's book, she's not an after thought... Or else they'd probably write an ending that's not setting her up as a possible tragic victim ("Audrey's luck that morning was as bad as her intentions were good..."). Like Hank's ending. It read a s a cliffhanger to whet your appetite for the new show.

To the above post about a lot of the subplots not being integral to the Laura Palmer plot... Yes, they were! Because it was a whodunit!! The mill, Norma and the diner, Josie... Sure, in the end they weren't the solution... But for the ride one would be questioning all of it, everyone was a suspect.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:59 pm

Audrey Horne wrote: It's akin to having all those Leland scenes at the beginning of season two, and we found out later Ray Wise refused to do it, so they made Norma the killer at the last minute.


Huh? What did Ray refuse? Norma a killer?
I believe all these phenomena that our putted-up egos and busy ant minds persist in trying to label, categorize, penetrate, and comphrehend, all spring from this same uncanny source. This is the mother of all "others".
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Audrey Horne
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:12 pm

It's a hypothetical... Like if Ray had said and refused to film episode fourteen's scenes but Pilot through thirteen were in the can.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:14 pm

ScarFace32 wrote:Hawk should be sheriff


True. I am enjoying Sheriff Truman though.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:16 pm

ScarFace32 wrote:Hawk should be sheriff


Well, he is deputy chief. I love Hawk, so I'd agree with you, but I think they wanted to keep their options open in case something could be worked out with Ontkean either late in production of this run, or in a hypothetical second season of The Return. Also, the opportunity of having the great Robert Forster as a Sheriff Truman, as originally intended, was a great thing, and there's something nice about continuing to hear our beloved characters say "Sheriff Truman", which provides continuity and increases the feeling that Harry is there in spirit.

Either way, Michael Horse ended up with a major role, probably bigger than most of us expected, so things have been pretty fantastic for fans of Hawk.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:24 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:It's a hypothetical... Like if Ray had said and refused to film episode fourteen's scenes but Pilot through thirteen were in the can.


Ah, you had me going there.

>Audrey.
For myself I have held as little hope and expectations as possible for the characters I grew to love in the old Peaks, shaking them of completely is not possible. So far I have been pleasantly surprised with say for instance Hawk and Bobby, but slightly disappointed with others like Albert, Andy and Lucy.
So based on the way other old characters are brought back to life now, do you expect Audrey's part in S3 will be a satisfactory one for you? If I were such a fan of a specific character you seem to be, I'd be a bit scared that a return of that character could ruin what they meant to me before.
I believe all these phenomena that our putted-up egos and busy ant minds persist in trying to label, categorize, penetrate, and comphrehend, all spring from this same uncanny source. This is the mother of all "others".
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:44 pm

Wonderful & Strange wrote:One of the problems with the old show is so many characters were tangential to the main plot, having nothing directly to do with Laura's murder or the black lodge. Now that the show is mainly focused on the black lodge, many beloved characters are simply not necessary to the story. So we can either have short visits with them or we can arbitrarily squeeze them into the plot.


I have a feeling almost everyone will have a connection to the main plot this time around. There will be a few exceptions of course, but I have a feeling even Jerry Horne, James and Shelly will fit into Cooper's story.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:51 pm

I'm excited, but I'm excited to see all the original characters. And not to get anyone heated, but (people always do that, but...) in terms of fear of having a favorite character ruined in the Return... This is my own personal opinion, when some naysayers were worried about this coming back for fear of ruining the original, to me, it was already ruined. I would watch the mid to late second season waiting weeks in between (sometimes months) and sometimes cry or mouth agape at what had happened to these oringial stellar characters... I loved all the actors but hated the characters. Until the second half of the two episode finale burned off in June. So, for me, it can only go up.

The fear of this season was going to be Amanda Seifryd and Justin Beiber and a slew of new hot young actors running around town and Ed making a cameo saying, "check out the Double R, kids." Or Audrey working the concierge desk at the Northern saying, "here's your room key." I feel everyone has had weight in this that feels really organic.

Basically I had my disappointment from February through June 1991, so this can only improve... And it has.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:07 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:
To the above post about a lot of the subplots not being integral to the Laura Palmer plot... Yes, they were! Because it was a whodunit!! The mill, Norma and the diner, Josie... Sure, in the end they weren't the solution... But for the ride one would be questioning all of it, everyone was a suspect.


Once they solved the whodunit, these red herrings became loose herrings and the show fell apart.

And the story is no longer about who killed Laura Palmer, so the old characters really don't have much to contribute other than show us who they are now.

If the most something contributes to a plot is red herring, then the character's not very necessary. Anything can be a red herring.
Last edited by Wonderful & Strange on Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 9 - This is the chair (SPOILERS)

Postby psyifinotic » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:08 pm

re-watching this right now befote ep 10, the farm scene is blatant parody of Tarantino imo and i couldnt love it more


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