Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

[Novalis]

That's why I don't like the woodsmen. I honestly think it's cause they are extras either overcompensating or with little experience or something

This whole season has had an intentional b-movie vibe, which we saw most clearly in Part 8, but Part 11 also was full of b-horror references. The woodsmen are meant to be campy like a Bela Lugosi film.

This is all part Lynch's expressionist aesthetic, where he not only pays homage to early German expressionism and its descendants, but also part of his avant garde critique of traditional realist representation. The average viewer just assumes that everything is naturally supposed to be represented a certain way, and he subverts that with a variety of other representational strategies.

The avant garde in general values the look of b-cinema exactly because it does humorously subvert "realistic" (according to a certain culture's perceptions of real) representation.

This is very similar to my view. 'Realistic' is, besides cultural, also historical. Just as verisimilitude is an effect in which the contemporary audience find the 'natural' attitudes and the action and gestures of the actors blend seamlessly into their own immersion precisely because of the contemporaneity of those attitudes, gestures and actions in wider society, watching a once-realistic movie from another era calls attention to the irreality of the acting. People talk and walk differently in older films; the acting is more visible from today's standpoint. In another thread I argued that the apparently 'amateur dramatics' of the woodsmen is how beings from another place might well appear to our contemporary sensibilities regarding gesture and movement. Just as actors with conditions of dwarfism or giantism can be used in an expressionist way to embody beings who feel to be too far away or close up in terms of perspective, receding from view or feeling too proximate, so too can actors with unusual gaits, gestures and motility be used as an expressionistic, distancing device.

I would also agree that German Expressionism never set out to create a cosy familiarity and continuity with the fantasies of the audience about their everyday realities, but rather to show how the world looks when viewed from an estranged or alienated subject position.

[Dreamy Audrey]

I would just like to point out, on the off chance that no one else already has, that seeing 2 people standing together (granted it was closely together) is literally ALL we have to go on and we have already decided that they are sleeping together.
Maybe Becky is just that nutty girl who can't handle their significant other having any kind of contact whatsoever with another woman?
Maybe this older (as so many people also seem to mention) woman is some form of mentor for Steven. Trying to help him in life, with work, with his addictions.
We have seen absolutely nothing to confirm that they are actually doing anything at all besides talking, and yet the amount of posts inferring that they are screwing are very high.... Probably all correctly.

I've seen suggestions on Facebook that she could be his mother. Which is not impossible.There's a strong theme of motherhood throughout the season. It's not my initial take-away, granted, but we have so little to actually work from.

After rewatching the episode, I think that they aren't lovers. The only reason most people assume they are lovers is because Becky thinks so and because they fled, but Becky could be mistaken. There are a lot of other reasons for him being in Gersten's appartment and they had good reason for fleeing because Becky had a gun and probably wouldn't have let them explain the situation. I think that Gersten and Steven might be related, they even look similar with the red hair. Gersten could be his mother, if she got pregnant as a teenager. She could also be his aunt, his older (half)sister or a cousin - probably a relationship that was recently discovered or is kept secret (to avoid scandal), which is why Becky doesn't know about her. Maybe Gersten (or Donna) gave him up for adoption and she just found him, or he is another Hayward sibling from a secret affair that no one knew about. Considering the soapy elements of the original series, these possibilities aren't that unlikely. Or maybe they aren't related and Gersten is just someone who is helping Steven with his drug problems or with a new job application (the job application scene in Mike's office could have been a set up for this) and they are keeping it secret because Becky often gets jealous and paranoid.

[AJPRR2GO]

I would just like to point out, on the off chance that no one else already has, that seeing 2 people standing together (granted it was closely together) is literally ALL we have to go on and we have already decided that they are sleeping together.
Maybe Becky is just that nutty girl who can't handle their significant other having any kind of contact whatsoever with another woman?
Maybe this older (as so many people also seem to mention) woman is some form of mentor for Steven. Trying to help him in life, with work, with his addictions.
We have seen absolutely nothing to confirm that they are actually doing anything at all besides talking, and yet the amount of posts inferring that they are screwing are very high.... Probably all correctly.

I've seen suggestions on Facebook that she could be his mother. Which is not impossible.There's a strong theme of motherhood throughout the season. It's not my initial take-away, granted, but we have so little to actually work from.

After rewatching the episode, I think that they aren't lovers. The only reason most people assume they are lovers is because Becky thinks so and because they fled, but Becky could be mistaken. There are a lot of other reasons for him being in Gersten's appartment and they had good reason for fleeing because Becky had a gun and probably wouldn't have let them explain the situation. I think that Gersten and Steven might be related, they even look similar with the red hair. Gersten could be his mother, if she got pregnant as a teenager. She could also be his aunt, his older (half)sister or a cousin - probably a relationship that was recently discovered or is kept secret (to avoid scandal), which is why Becky doesn't know about her. Maybe Gersten (or Donna) gave him up for adoption and she just found him, or he is another Hayward sibling from a secret affair that no one knew about. Considering the soapy elements of the original series, these possibilities aren't that unlikely. Or maybe they aren't related and Gersten is just someone who is helping Steven with his drug problems or with a new job application (the job application scene in Mike's office could have been a set up for this) and they are keeping it secret because Becky often gets jealous and paranoid.

You hit the nail right on the head when you said "the soapy elements", as I've been wondering just which part of The Return is serving as the new " Invitation to Love"
Maybe this is it?

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[N. Needleman]

Yeah, no. They're fucking.

[Electric Tree]

That's why I don't like the woodsmen. I honestly think it's cause they are extras either overcompensating or with little experience or something

..as I mentioned earlier..seeing them in broad daylight definitely takes away any air of menace from them (compare to the shooting of Bad Coop or the radio station attack)

[chromereflectsimage]

I think Diane is working for Phillip Jeffries, who is actually working against bad Coop. Just a theory.

That kind of makes sense. I suspect that the Woodsmen are acting on Jeffries behalf, and if DIane is in league with Jeffries as well, it might go to reason that she has some sort of understanding with them as well.

So perhaps Diane is working with Jeffries to get back at Cooper... Do we know what Diane's job at the FBI was 25 years ago? Secretary, junior agent perhaps?

A secretary is what I assumed. There's a scene in the Missing Pieces where Cooper is talking to [a never seen] Diane right outside her office.

[Ragnell]

It's a possibility that Gerston and Stephen aren't doing anything wrong, but nothing I've seen of Steven makes me willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here and we really didn't get to know Gerston well enough to either. Besides, Steven seems like the sort of person who drags people down with him. Gerston's from a good family but honestly, so is Becky so I'm not inclined to give Gerston the benefit of the doubt jsut because she's Doc Hayward's daughter and was an innocent piano playing pre-teen in the first show. Bobby's father was Garland Briggs, a man so moral and wise he actually got taken to the White Lodge, and Bobby was still into all SORTS of terrible things as a young adult.

Which is kind of interesting. I remember when Part 5 came out and reviewers started going "Is Becky the new Laura?" Instead, Becky is the new Bobby. The kid who, despite being the child of a responsible loving father, is in a relationship that varies between blissful shared drug abuse and nightmarish verbal abuse, and is prone to reckless criminal behavior up to and including murderous rage when they discover that other person is cheating. That in addition to being the new Shelly, a girl married too young to the wrong man. She has her mother's taste in men and her father's temper, the worst possible combination of those two. And I think she's getting the Bobby plot, where she's at a point in her life when the right advice and the right circumstances can turn her around. But everything in Twin Peaks is so much darker now, she may just keep going in the same downward direction. How long before she kills someone like her dad did? Or maybe she already has.

I wouldn't call Steven the new Laura thought. Aside from that one woman saying everyone loved him (and I suspect it was the same woman who thought something was wrong with James so I don't think she's a great judge of character--James has been annoying and boring but never someone to worry about) it seems like he does not have that sociable, beloved side Laura had. He's not even one of the more competent or dangerous bad guys in the show, so he's not really a Leo or a Hank. So far he's just a loser and barring a revelation that he has a support network like Becky has to offer him a life preserver (So here's where the Aunt Gerston theory WOULD work) I think he's doomed.

[NonStopKnits]

Yeah, no. They're fucking.

Thank you, Needleman. I find it odd that people don't want to think the two scraggly looking, sneaky-snake acting people are actually being bad and think Becky is just a nut job.

Falling in love with and marrying someone only to later find out they are abusive/druggies/cheaters/ can fuck with your head big time. Also, if Steven got Becky into drugs and is the stash holder, she might be dealing with withdrawls as well, which will make you crazy.

Or, we're ALL wrong.

[wAtChLaR]

why do insist on hearing the arm's whooping sound when Shelly drives up to Becky's trailer....i'm guessing i'm wrong...but i can't unhear it on the 5th viewing

[Hester Prynne]

https://www.wmagazine.com/gallery/david ... prager/all
There was this article too. Amazing stuff. I was taken by the portratues, and wondered about it untill i had happenstance came upon the inspiration for the photoshoot which homages disney's "Return to Oz" 1985.
The film featured the ingenue Faiuza Balk as Dorothy,who faces the evil queen Momby who can switch heads with any of the many gallery of collected womens heads. The gallery is identical to the portraits in this W piece. Good film. (And we know how much Lynch reveres Baum's Oz)

I was going to post about the Oz aspects of my experience of TP:TR so thank you for sharing this, I hadn't seen it!
"Return to Oz" the film I haven't yet seen. But I read the book "Ozma of Oz" when I was growing up, by L. Frank Baum, which the film "Return to Oz" is based on. I've picked it up to reread again.
The wiki on "Ozma of Oz" states "Unlike Baum's other Oz books where the main character seeks to return home [Kansas], this story involves Dorothy's quest to return to Oz."
The story follows Dorothy and eventually familiar faces are reintroduced but not before encountering some harrowing otherworldly creatures and freaky situations. The queen who changes her heads like the Gallery shown in your link, that whole concept added to the nightmare quality for me reading it as a kid.
Whether from Dale's point of view or ours there's a resemblance here IMO, that the quest to find one's way to a place called home is fragmented and often as with dreams, even getting glimpses of a familiar place or face, the circumstances can be confusing. And much like TPTR's effective suspense-generating allure, going to sleep again the following night cannot guarantee how your dream will take shape. Ozma of Oz gave shape to my nightmares and my vivid imagination for many years and in this dreamscape I recognize a little of what Lynch is doing with The Return.

The vortex reminded me very much of the tornado from The Wizard of Oz. I kept waiting for a house to fall out of it. I know this is not going to make much sense, but Janey-E seems very Dorothy-ish to me. I'm still confused by her character - her emotions always seem exaggerated (like when she storms into Lucky 7 swinging her arms like an angry child or when she is overly fearless with the two guys demanding money from Dougie and then launches into a lecture about the 99%). Her determination, excitability, and fearlessness - even her red shoes - remind me very much of Dorothy. She seems more of a caricature. - Don't mean that as a criticism, she just seems slightly off, and I still wonder if she might be some kind of lodge creation.

[Deep Thought]

The vortex reminded me very much of the tornado from The Wizard of Oz. I kept waiting for a house to fall out of it. I know this is not going to make much sense, but Janey-E seems very Dorothy-ish to me. I'm still confused by her character - her emotions always seem exaggerated (like when she storms into Lucky 7 swinging her arms like an angry child or when she is overly fearless with the two guys demanding money from Dougie and then launches into a lecture about the 99%). Her determination, excitability, and fearlessness - even her red shoes - remind me very much of Dorothy. She seems more of a caricature. - Don't mean that as a criticism, she just seems slightly off, and I still wonder if she might be some kind of lodge creation.

Imo, DL has two distinct styles of characters, those like Janey E, who are "real," and those like the ones in Betty's audition (MD), who "don't play it for real until it gets real." In other words, it is the "unreal" characters like Janey E who affect me the most deeply while the phony "real" acting characters provide a contrast that emphasize the true nature of the exaggerated characters. I see “real” people every day, Lynch takes us past that into the nature of our experiences.

Are you as confused as I am when I wrote this?

[mtwentz]

why do insist on hearing the arm's whooping sound when Shelly drives up to Becky's trailer....i'm guessing i'm wrong...but i can't unhear it on the 5th viewing

I really miss MJAs whooping sound that was so effective in FWWM.

[wAtChLaR]

why do insist on hearing the arm's whooping sound when Shelly drives up to Becky's trailer....i'm guessing i'm wrong...but i can't unhear it on the 5th viewing

I really miss MJAs whooping sound that was so effective in FWWM.

yes it was amazing...but i don't miss MJA due to his allegations that Lynch molested his daughter Jennifer....fuck him to hell
http://www.hollywood.com/general/jennif ... -60619227/

[Dreamy Audrey]

Yeah, no. They're fucking.

Thank you, Needleman. I find it odd that people don't want to think the two scraggly looking, sneaky-snake acting people are actually being bad and think Becky is just a nut job.

Falling in love with and marrying someone only to later find out they are abusive/druggies/cheaters/ can fuck with your head big time. Also, if Steven got Becky into drugs and is the stash holder, she might be dealing with withdrawls as well, which will make you crazy.

It's not about wanting or not wanting these two characters to be bad. I don't know enough about these characters to care. It's just that most people always jump to conclusions even though we don't know the context of scenes, and they often see them as a given without any room for different theories, like some of these:
- "Frank Truman never does anything, he doesn't solve the drug crimes, so he must be such a bad Sheriff. Harry arrested so many people in the same time." - In my opinion, this is a weird assumption because a) we haven't seen much of Frank, he could have done a lot of good police work in the past and b) Frank might momentarily be more concerned with his brother's health than police work, that doesn't make him a bad Sheriff and c) the new series is much slower paced, so things are progressing slower
- "EvilCooper sent a text to Diane. That confirms she is working with him!" - Though at the moment it really does seem that she's working with him, at the time she was sent the text she hadn't done anything wrong. As far as we know she didn't ask for that text to be sent to her and we don't even understand the content of the message, it could also be a threat or a set up.
- "EvilCooper visited Audrey in intensive care so he must have raped her when she was in a coma." - it seems just weird to me that many people assume that this was the only possible interaction between these characters when we don't even know how long Audrey was in a coma. She could have woken up after a few days. He could have raped her at a later time or she might have consented, thinking he was the real Cooper. Maybe they never even had sex and someone else is Richard's father. Doc Hayward's mentioning of Audrey could have been used to mislead the audience to hide EvilCooper's real purpose for visiting intensive care. He could have been there to get the ring from Annie (wasn't she also in intensive care?). We just don't know anything about what happened in Twin Peaks 25 years ago, everything is possible.
- "Steven met with another woman so he must have slept with her because he is such a bad guy." - Really, there are a hundred reasons why people meet and from what we've seen of Becky this episode, she isn't a completely good person either. She might be this way because of Steven's influence but it's also possible that she was that way before she met him or that she was actually a bad influence on him. Personally, I think it would be more interesting if we found out that the most likely reason for the meeting, them sleeping together, is wrong and that they were doing something else. That doesn't have to mean they have to be good characters, they could have done worse things than sleeping together, like planning a crime.

I'm not saying that any of these assumption are wrong, just that we don't know enough to be so fixated on one possibility.

[zeronumber]

https://www.wmagazine.com/gallery/david ... prager/all
There was this article too. Amazing stuff. I was taken by the portratues, and wondered about it untill i had happenstance came upon the inspiration for the photoshoot which homages disney's "Return to Oz" 1985.
The film featured the ingenue Faiuza Balk as Dorothy,who faces the evil queen Momby who can switch heads with any of the many gallery of collected womens heads. The gallery is identical to the portraits in this W piece. Good film. (And we know how much Lynch reveres Baum's Oz)

I was going to post about the Oz aspects of my experience of TP:TR so thank you for sharing this, I hadn't seen it!
"Return to Oz" the film I haven't yet seen. But I read the book "Ozma of Oz" when I was growing up, by L. Frank Baum, which the film "Return to Oz" is based on. I've picked it up to reread again.
The wiki on "Ozma of Oz" states "Unlike Baum's other Oz books where the main character seeks to return home [Kansas], this story involves Dorothy's quest to return to Oz."
The story follows Dorothy and eventually familiar faces are reintroduced but not before encountering some harrowing otherworldly creatures and freaky situations. The queen who changes her heads like the Gallery shown in your link, that whole concept added to the nightmare quality for me reading it as a kid.
Whether from Dale's point of view or ours there's a resemblance here IMO, that the quest to find one's way to a place called home is fragmented and often as with dreams, even getting glimpses of a familiar place or face, the circumstances can be confusing. And much like TPTR's effective suspense-generating allure, going to sleep again the following night cannot guarantee how your dream will take shape. Ozma of Oz gave shape to my nightmares and my vivid imagination for many years and in this dreamscape I recognize a little of what Lynch is doing with The Return.

The vortex reminded me very much of the tornado from The Wizard of Oz. I kept waiting for a house to fall out of it. I know this is not going to make much sense, but Janey-E seems very Dorothy-ish to me. I'm still confused by her character - her emotions always seem exaggerated (like when she storms into Lucky 7 swinging her arms like an angry child or when she is overly fearless with the two guys demanding money from Dougie and then launches into a lecture about the 99%). Her determination, excitability, and fearlessness - even her red shoes - remind me very much of Dorothy. She seems more of a caricature. - Don't mean that as a criticism, she just seems slightly off, and I still wonder if she might be some kind of lodge creation.

Quite Dorothy~esque. Scrappy and sweet, JaneyE is all that.

A bit more about "Return to Oz" ...in the story, Dorothy is assited by a golden shadowy phantasm that appears in mirrors., that turns out to Pincess Ozma herself...

A golden haired darling not unlike our dear Laura...trapped between two worlds by unrelenting evil.

Fairuza Balk is darling as Dorothy.

Naomi Watts is no less as JaneyE...( and her little dog Dougie too)

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