Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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BigEd
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:34 pm

Well, one thing we know for certain, she wasn't giving him piano lessons because nobody with a piano rents a second story apartment. :lol:

(of course, her mother was in a wheel chair and they lived in a two story house) :shock:
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HagbardCeline
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby HagbardCeline » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:47 pm

nick1218 wrote:Nope, wrong. You can put 100 question marks if you want. Interest in next installment is not equal to cliffhanger. When Cooper was shot and we didnt know who THAT was a cliffhanger. If we go your your definition then every episode of almost every tv show is a cliffhanger. You have to be judicious with the word


I always have to assume thoughts like these are just attempts to troll. They are so divorced from reality. The hero of your TV show is trapped in the lodge while his evil doppelganger, possessed by Bob is out in the real world? You don't think that's a cliffhanger? Will our heroes figure out he's not Coop? What evil will evil Coop do in Good Coop's name? Can good Coop escape? Mark Frost even talks about why they ended season two on "such a cliffhanger" because they thought it would help get a season three. (And it's why they packed in the other pile of cliffhangers: Audrey, Leo, Annie, Ben Horne, etc. etc.). This show is the resolution to a quarter century long cliffhanger.

On another note:

In Season 2, the scene in the diner with the lady with the shaking hands was always one of the most unsettling things for me. I feel like as we get closer to the dates that the lodge opens, the strange stuff in Twin Peaks is going to increase. (I think the shooter kid, the puking girl, etc are symptoms similar to the people back in season 2).
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wxray
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:04 pm

BigEd wrote:Well, one thing we know for certain, she wasn't giving him piano lessons because nobody with a piano rents a second story apartment. :lol:

(of course, her mother was in a wheel chair and they lived in a two story house) :shock:

Ha ha.

She's sweaty. Steven has something in his hand. I don't think it is a USB key. I think it is a packet of sparkle. Nothing good going on here.

And why the hell isn't she wearing her tiara?
Rami Airola
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Rami Airola » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:32 pm

nick1218 wrote:Nope, wrong. You can put 100 question marks if you want. Interest in next installment is not equal to cliffhanger. When Cooper was shot and we didnt know who THAT was a cliffhanger. If we go your your definition then every episode of almost every tv show is a cliffhanger. You have to be judicious with the word


So? That's just how it is.

Writers, directors, and producers have seen the "cliffhanger model" to be so effective in tv series that the use of it has become more of a rule than an exception.
The old Batman series was based on a sort of a 50/50 cliffhanger model where one episode always ended in a cliffhanger while the next episode resolved that cliffhanger but didn't end in another cliffhanger. It was a very effective system. But I bet some would've loved to see every episode end in a cliffhanger. At least I sure as hell did.

People like cliffhanger endings so much that it has become a staple of tv series storytelling. It happening in almost every episode in almost every series doesn't make it be something else.

And that is also one of the reasons people were disappointed with the new Twin Peaks. It has pretty much completely stayed away from cliffhanger endings.
mtl
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby mtl » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:45 pm

Becky out of her mind - whooping sound - evil kicks in

Becky shoots - evil gets out -

we see the camera from Becky all the way to Steven and the girl
then it stops and we see from "BOB's" (evil) pov - as someone wrote earlier

who the fuck knows :lol:
Esselgee
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Esselgee » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:49 pm

I just posted a new theory in the "Theories & Speculation" thread about who I think is behind the drug business in Twin Peaks. It's kind of out of left field, but this episode provided a lot of the necessary evidence.

Check it out:
http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3551&start=660#p96808
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Troubbble
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:03 pm

Esselgee wrote:I just posted a new theory in the "Theories & Speculation" thread about who I think is behind the drug business in Twin Peaks. It's kind of out of left field, but this episode provided a lot of the necessary evidence.

Check it out:
http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3551&start=660#p96808


Interesting, but disagree.

If ANYONE is holding Red's leash, I think it's possibly the doppelganger.
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:07 pm

Esselgee wrote:I just posted a new theory in the "Theories & Speculation" thread about who I think is behind the drug business in Twin Peaks. It's kind of out of left field, but this episode provided a lot of the necessary evidence.

Check it out:
http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3551&start=660#p96808


That is a very well thought out but on a scale of likelihood from "Audrey is Richard's mother" to "Jerry's foot is possessed by Laura Palmer" I'm thinking that's on the foot end.
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I'm the Muffin
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby I'm the Muffin » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:04 pm

While the ending of S2 is obviously a cliffhanger in the broadest sense, I've always experienced it as more of a straight downer ending: even Cooper, as good as they come, in the showdown with evil, isn't quite strong enough. (as a sidenote, I'm glad that's not the ending anymore!)

Now a real hardcore cliffhanger would have been if we didn't know if Cooper came out possessed or not. :wink:
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yaxomoxay
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:33 pm

I'm the Muffin wrote:
Now a real hardcore cliffhanger would have been if we didn't know if Cooper came out possessed or not. :wink:


Gosh, you're an evil person.... are you BOB? :)


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Calderon
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Calderon » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:34 pm

mtwentz wrote:
Nighthawk wrote: Considering how many characters, themes, mythologies, mysterious forces, and plain random events are going on in TPTR, the current pace implies that we will not get to revisit a lot of them and just brush on the surface of others. Part 11 had maybe five plot moving events and the rest was just a build up to them. Dougie befriending the Mitchum brothers took half of the episode alone and it feels like that could have been handled in 8-10 minutes. We've already seen that Lynch can turn up the pace, like he did with part 7, which of course was followed (intentionally I assume) with the bizarre, extremely slow, but artistically ingenious part 8.


Plot, schmlott.

If you want to see a show full of plot twists, go check out any generic movie/TV show. They are a dime a dozen.

Twin Peaks is not a plot driven show. It's driven by those moments when a man's foot rebels against his body.


For me this is one of the big misconceptions about Twin Peaks. Twin Peaks is sometimes bizarre, very cryptic and hard to understand, but in the end it's one of the most complexly plot driven shows I've ever seen. Mood, atmosphere and characters are a huge part of Twin Peaks, but they are not everything.
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yaxomoxay
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Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:18 pm

Do you guys think that the conversation around the (Mitchum+Dougie) dinner table was lively?


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mtwentz
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:38 pm

Calderon wrote:
mtwentz wrote:
Nighthawk wrote: Considering how many characters, themes, mythologies, mysterious forces, and plain random events are going on in TPTR, the current pace implies that we will not get to revisit a lot of them and just brush on the surface of others. Part 11 had maybe five plot moving events and the rest was just a build up to them. Dougie befriending the Mitchum brothers took half of the episode alone and it feels like that could have been handled in 8-10 minutes. We've already seen that Lynch can turn up the pace, like he did with part 7, which of course was followed (intentionally I assume) with the bizarre, extremely slow, but artistically ingenious part 8.


Plot, schmlott.

If you want to see a show full of plot twists, go check out any generic movie/TV show. They are a dime a dozen.

Twin Peaks is not a plot driven show. It's driven by those moments when a man's foot rebels against his body.


For me this is one of the big misconceptions about Twin Peaks. Twin Peaks is sometimes bizarre, very cryptic and hard to understand, but in the end it's one of the most complexly plot driven shows I've ever seen. Mood, atmosphere and characters are a huge part of Twin Peaks, but they are not everything.


Not being a very well schooled in film lingo like many of the posters who have studied film on this board, I am struggling to find the right words to describe what I mean.

Yes, Twin Peaks, especially this new season, has a very complex plot that is very engaging. And the plot does drive the show, to a large extent. But there is something more to Twin Peaks. Instead of worrying just about the destination, Twin Peaks stops along the path to smell the flowers. That's the best I can describe it with my limited vocabulary in this area.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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AgentEcho
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:46 pm

I'm not sure the definition of cliff-hanger needs such a vociferous debate, but one thing is clear: We would not be watching new episodes of Twin Peaks if not for the enduring impact of of the final scene of Season 2. I think it can safely be argued the impact is unique in almost by itself warranting a revival from the dead after twenty-five plus years. The intent of cliff-hangers might be to get people wanting to see the next installment, and you can debate the intent of the scene, but in terms of effect, it's arguably the most powerful cliffhanger in television history.
Calderon
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Calderon » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:56 pm

mtwentz wrote:Not being a very well schooled in film lingo like many of the posters who have studied film on this board, I am struggling to find the right words to describe what I mean.

Yes, Twin Peaks, especially this new season, has a very complex plot that is very engaging. And the plot does drive the show, to a large extent. But there is something more to Twin Peaks. Instead of worrying just about the destination, Twin Peaks stops along the path to smell the flowers. That's the best I can describe it with my limited vocabulary in this area.


You've described it beautifully to the point. So much is going on, yet the show takes its time.

Or to quote Goethe's Faust: "Zum Augenblicke möchte ich sagen, verweile doch, du bist so schön."
"To the moment I'd like to say: 'Stay awhile, you are so beautiful."

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