Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Jasper
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:55 am

HagbardCeline wrote:The article was in IndiWire, you should be able to google. I can find it when I get home.


Soolsma wrote:http://www.indiewire.com/2017/07/twin-peaks-ratings-2017-season-4-game-of-thrones-1201853930/


Thank you both. Not exactly the most uplifting article (and there some bad typos, like "Kyle McLachland"), but it does provide more information about viewing numbers. So, in terms of streaming it seems that Twin Peaks is beating all other Showtime shows, but the live viewing numbers are not good, so it's not exactly celebration time. This is probably the most upbeat section:

32 percent of the “Twin Peaks” audience is coming from streaming (including both VOD and over-the-top services). That’s a higher total than any other Showtime series, including “Shameless,” “Billions,” “Homeland,” and “The Affair” — all of which average less than 20 percent of their vieweres from streaming.


While I do feel that Lynch and Frost intend to tell a whole story with The Return, I don't have the sense that they wanted to permanently close the door on Twin Peaks. All of the indicators seem to be that they were very willing to at least entertain the notion of doing more content. Even back in the first two or three days of the original announcement, Frost was keeping his options open when asked if this would be a one-time thing or if the story might continue.

I'd like to see more Peaks, and I'd generally like to see more of Lynch working as a director (and by the way, Clint Eastwood is 87 and working on a new film). I really hope that The Return does well enough for Lynch to have plenty of options in terms of meaningful directorial opportunities. I'd furthermore like the industry to feel like these kinds of risks can pay off.
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Pinky
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Pinky » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:55 am

it just feels like the end to me. The stakes have gone from 'spirits haunting a town in the Northwest' to what feels like a potentially global catastrophe in the making. We're watching Cooper's arc end beautifully and no doubt Laura's is going to, too. I'm sure that the story is going to have enough open ends that someone would be able to engineer a sequel if they had to, but I doubt it is ideally suited. The only way to ensure that would have been to write it with a sequel planned, which would have given them way less freedom to make this one as good as it seems to be (got to keep many characters alive, can't go too big on the story because where do you go from there, etc).

I mean, certainly for me, the show is yelling out 'this is it, this is what you've been waiting for! We're almost there!!'. It feels like Twin Peaks itself is under threat, maybe the world. Where would a potential S4 start and go to, dramatically, after all this? I mean, Cooper, for example. He'll have nowhere to go after what he's been through. Nothing will be able to beat it.

I think for a lot of people, it is just a way of being able to hope that as soon as all the insanity of S3 is out of the way, they're going to get the kooky Twin Peaks back. I can't see Lynch and Frost being arsed to do it (Lynch especially) and I can't see them being happy in handing over the reins to other people. S3 is their response to that very mistake.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Rami Airola » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:39 am

Jasper wrote:This really isn't unusual for the premiere of a cable series.


Then why even try to explain why those numbers are what they are? They are not much different than what the numbers one episode later were. Basically it was only 50k people who didn't watch parts 3&4 because they watched them already but came back to see Part 5. While that 0.195 looks like it's really low, it's not much lower than the 0.250 number. It just looks like it because the number 1 starts it. And it's nearly the same as the numbers for the latest episode are.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Rami Airola » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:52 am

Jasper wrote:I'd like to see more Peaks, and I'd generally like to see more of Lynch working as a director (and by the way, Clint Eastwood is 87 and working on a new film). I really hope that The Return does well enough for Lynch to have plenty of options in terms of meaningful directorial opportunities. I'd furthermore like the industry to feel like these kinds of risks can pay off.


Yeah, it's all about how much services like Sky, HBO Nordic and Netflix are wanting the continuation to be on their service. If this show is positive for them it's more likely they will continue it. I'm not sure though if Showtime would be willing to pay for it again but there probably are other companies who might be interested if the numbers for the streamings services end up being positive. I recall Showtime wasn't the only company Lynch and Frost talked to. But they were the company that was willing to do the risk of letting it be done in the way it was done. And now as that risk has already been taken I think other companies could be more willing to pay for the next season now that they know at least a bit of what to expect.

Personally I'd love to see more.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:50 am

I don't know why this issue of a Season 4 keeps coming up. We were lucky to get Season 3. Never say never, but the ratings aren't there, several cast members have passed away, and I'd say the odds are stacked against anything further than these 18 beautiful hours we are getting in 2017.

But then again, I never thought there would be a Season 3, so what do I know? :-)
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Soolsma
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:06 am

A spin-off set in 1956 8)
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Hockey Mask
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Hockey Mask » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:45 am

I wouldn't be surprised at all if someone like Netflix provided a short S4 run or a movie.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby DamnFineCreamedCorn » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:06 am

I can appreciate why fans disappointed by The Return might hope for another season, but I doubt it's likely and I wouldn't even want it. I'm just enjoying this miraculous gift of 18 hours. Every story needs to end, and after 25 years Twin Peaks is getting one crafted by its co-creators. That's more than I ever expected and all I want.
I've already gone places. I just want to stay where I am.
MysteryMan14
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby MysteryMan14 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:13 am

This is not a good place and the right time to speculate about a S04. We still have 7 hours of the new season and we dont know how It'll end at all. So if Kyle said that chances to create a season 4 are good than I trust him that he knows more than we. As to those ratings I dont know if they're good or bad but in these days many of people expecially in East Europe and Asia watch new shows and movies by illegal streaming site or they downland from torrent sites or warez sites. So the audience othe Return is much more bigger than all these ratings show.
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docLEXfisti
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby docLEXfisti » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:44 am

Btw galz 'n' guys, the german description for EP11 on Sky Ticket says: "Becky is furious as she finds out that her drug-addict husband is having an affair..."

PS: I cried
.) when my twin children got born
.) during my wedding ceremony
.) when I got my last job
.) and now I had tears in my eyes again for the 4th time, when watching the EP11 ending... oh man :)
Last edited by docLEXfisti on Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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firefly2193
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby firefly2193 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:00 am

LateReg wrote:
firefly2193 wrote:I think TPTR will get nominated for some awards, and likely win none (rather like the original Twin Peaks!).

My personal hope would be that TPTR would be followed by a feature film to finish off the franchise, but given Lynch's comments on the film industry its more likely for a season 4. I just hope TPTR goes out with a bang as if it was the final ever Twin Peaks we'd get - season 4 seems far from guaranteed. The ratings are low, especially given the rumoured budget, but TV is so international and multi-formatted that just looking at TV ratings in America is only a tiny slice of the pie.

My prediction is Showtime, especially if the end of TPTR generates media buzz, will try to get another season - but perhaps with a smaller budget *if* the numbers aren't great financially. Perhaps a 9 or 13 episode season instead. Then of course we'd have to see if Lynch wants to.


What is the rumored budget? I've been dying to find out.


People on this forum used to talk about $80 million and figures around that area. That number could be complete nonsense. Having seen the show, I'm not convinced it was that high.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Panapaok » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:41 am

firefly2193 wrote:People on this forum used to talk about $80 million and figures around that area. That number could be complete nonsense. Having seen the show, I'm not convinced it was that high.
It is that high. It has been confirmed that the budget is on par with Showtime's other big dramas, which all have less episodes than TP. It has many locations, many sets built, a ginormous cast and tons of visual effects. There's also what I'm sure was a very big paycheck to Lynch, Frost and Maclachlan. It's a super expensive show for Showtime.
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:48 am

Mr. Strawberry wrote:The Woodsmen are creeping or frightening some viewers out, while others are finding them extra-y and comical. For me, they have unfortunately fallen away from being scary in any fashion. That first shot of that Woodsmen sitting in the empty cell near Hastings was really scary and unsettling. I had so much hope for some kind of growing, creeping fear based on the potential that scene contained. The resurrection scene with Dale was another great moment. It painted them as mysterious and otherworldly, gifted with strange magic and seemingly at arm's reach though concealed to most. Since then, these Woodsmen have been generically simplified and reduced down to simple head crushing monsters. That's how it seems right now, anyway. It's a real shame because BOB was unpredictable and immortally dangerous due to the way he could inhabit a person and corrupt their soul. It was never as basic and boring as "get near BOB and get crushed".
I'll be interested to see how the woodsmen's role pans out. If we're being given a view of the forms of evil interacting in the world, these particulars are meant to be ghostlike, almost apparitions with flicking in-&-out of view, and shown in glimpses on a stairwell as if in a haunted place. Excepting the one Gotta Light? dude, who took on a more real form and went after victims who hadn't done anything wrong that we're aware. That was in the 'origin myth' Part 8 introduction to them and we know they creep about the scene where Ruth's body was found, and the morgue, and Mr C's scene getting shot by Ray.

Trying to appreciate whatever message is at the heart of these expressions of evil does get frustrating since the viewer wants to know what's at the bottom of it, what do the woodsmen represent, and then there's manifestations of home-grown evil. Why did Richard evolve into the crazed personality his grandmother recognized when she saw coming (so he's been like this for a while), and Miriam recognized he had turned deadly (though her response is simply to pen a letter to the Sheriff?)? Whereas BOB in the earlier seasons we had to piece together from clues about the nature of his appearances, in mirrors or Maddy's vision or Laura's room; and Leland's recounting someone he knew as a child -- those clues served the narrative while keeping us engaged in the other vine-like strands of subplots. The supernatural sources of evil were one aspect, while worldly vices like greed and lust pervading One-Eyed Jacques and cocaine smuggling lay fertile ground for "pain and suffering" that BOB craved.
Which brings me to Mr. C who has the same craving, who referenced BOB "still with me, good" as enabler of his pursuit to fulfill the craving. If the Woodsmen are mere agents to carry out some higher bidding like The Mother's then displaying their skill for senseless violence does seem to me a crap-out for trying to deliver any foreboding or gooseflesh impact like the singular mysteriousness of BOB S1-2 gave. And with Part 11 they're agents of stymied wonderment, since we know Gordon saw them, and Albert, and Diane -- but we're not sure if they weren't already familiar with them; especially Diane.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby Metamorphia » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:52 am

Jasper wrote:
HagbardCeline wrote:The article was in IndiWire, you should be able to google. I can find it when I get home.


Soolsma wrote:http://www.indiewire.com/2017/07/twin-peaks-ratings-2017-season-4-game-of-thrones-1201853930/


Thank you both. Not exactly the most uplifting article (and there some bad typos, like "Kyle McLachland"), but it does provide more information about viewing numbers. So, in terms of streaming it seems that Twin Peaks is beating all other Showtime shows, but the live viewing numbers are not good, so it's not exactly celebration time. This is probably the most upbeat section:

32 percent of the “Twin Peaks” audience is coming from streaming (including both VOD and over-the-top services). That’s a higher total than any other Showtime series, including “Shameless,” “Billions,” “Homeland,” and “The Affair” — all of which average less than 20 percent of their vieweres from streaming.


While I do feel that Lynch and Frost intend to tell a whole story with The Return, I don't have the sense that they wanted to permanently close the door on Twin Peaks. All of the indicators seem to be that they were very willing to at least entertain the notion of doing more content. Even back in the first two or three days of the original announcement, Frost was keeping his options open when asked if this would be a one-time thing or if the story might continue.

I'd like to see more Peaks, and I'd generally like to see more of Lynch working as a director (and by the way, Clint Eastwood is 87 and working on a new film). I really hope that The Return does well enough for Lynch to have plenty of options in terms of meaningful directorial opportunities. I'd furthermore like the industry to feel like these kinds of risks can pay off.


Still think Lynch's lack of film work over the last 10 years was more to do with him than changing industry stuff, tho. His films are pretty cheap (Twin Peaks S3 being an exception) and there are lots of indie distributors/foreign studios that would happily support him - just look at how Malick gets to make movies year after year now despite them probably making even less money than a Lynch film would. Guys like Amazon would jump through hoops to get a David Lynch feature film made for them.

Just a lack of ideas on his part.
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Re: Part 11 - There's fire where you are going (SPOILERS)

Postby The Gazebo » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:18 am

Framed_Angel wrote:Which brings me to Mr. C who has the same craving, who referenced BOB "still with me, good" as enabler of his pursuit to fulfill the craving. If the Woodsmen are mere agents to carry out some higher bidding like The Mother's then displaying their skill for senseless violence does seem to me a crap-out for trying to deliver any foreboding or gooseflesh impact like the singular mysteriousness of BOB S1-2 gave. And with Part 11 they're agents of stymied wonderment, since we know Gordon saw them, and Albert, and Diane -- but we're not sure if they weren't already familiar with them; especially Diane.


It's almost like the FBI agents are the ones "filled with secrets" this time.

Like you, I'm still not sure what the role of these Woodsmen are. I suppose they could be creepy in isolated encounters, but they still feel a little too abstract. Same with the Mother. Mr C isn't that frightening - more or less a common "bad guy". I'm intrigued to see who's going to duke it out with each other, because at this point I have absolutely no idea how this is going to unfold. We knew towards the end of season 2 that the search for the black lodge was the main plot. This time the waters are a lot more muddy.

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