Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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N. Needleman
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by N. Needleman »

Well, that happened! Part 12 was at least 50% troll! Amazing. I can't say I enjoyed all of the latter half per se, but I can say I couldn't stop laughing.

The Audrey/ending scenes alternated between agonizing and hilarious, as I'm sure was intended (a rotary phone! Come on!).

Aggressive audience assault in the second half aside, the whole first half was mint - especially the Sarah stuff. I thought Ben's testimonial to Beverly was actually pretty touching too. Ashley Judd's reaction work was great.

I feel like the random soapy scenes at the Roadhouse with various nobodies is almost this bizarre MD or Jacques Rivette-esque device. It's far too deliberate.
Last edited by N. Needleman on Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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John Justice Wheeler
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

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Mr. Reindeer wrote: I think a lot of what people are interpreting as "trolling" (a relatively recent concept DKL has likely never heard of and has no interest in) is actually shaggy-dog storytelling, a real lost art in today's fast-paced media
Perhaps in part yes but a lot of what he's doing with these scenes is a kind of willful perversity, extending them far beyond the norm generally allowed on TV to convey the minimal plot based info that they tend to contain. This is an aesthetic that goes back to the original show (e.g. waiter scene, Dell Mibbler, etc.) but really permeates much of his work (it's a perversity that can also be glimpsed specifically in scenes in which action starts a moment before or after it generally would in a standard set-up). What I love about these moments is the way in which they confront the audience with a sudden recognition of what they have just come to accept or expect in conventional form; that these are simply distinct elements of a conventional form, a specific kind of craft or artistry but by no means the only kind. On that level alone it is greatly appreciated.
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pixletwin
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by pixletwin »

The troll was definitely intentional. The whole scene with Audrey. Listening to Charlie on the phone, thinking he was going to yield something of interest only to go tight lipped and Audrey yelling "YOU AREN'T GOING TO TELL ME WHAT SHE SAID!!??!!?"

I couldn't of said it better myself.
sewhite2000
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by sewhite2000 »

Framed_Angel wrote:
Jonah wrote:And we got some resolution to Miriam.
One of the few intriguing moments for me, was when Ben instructed Beverly to arrange to pay for hospital treatment of "Miriam... I forget her last name."
Are we going to go down this road again, wondering whether the correct Miriam will be identified in a way that aids whichever arc of any of these stories is heading? LOL there will turn out to be another Miriam also at the hospital -- wackiness ensues!

As for the Cole scene with the girl who makes him wish he spoke a little French -- when they first appeared, did anyone else think there was a dead woman on his shoulder... even if it turned out she was just dozing off or there was some language barrier or other meta reference to the notion Lynch/Cole's "storytelling" is, well, putting any number of us in a "coma"?
I actually think the "I forget her last name" is a meta-joke on all of us. Remember how insane the last name on the envelope being different from the one in the closing credits made all of us insane (including me?). Did Frank say her last name in the scene, though? I suspect he did, but I forgot to pay close attention to that.
Last edited by sewhite2000 on Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by N. Needleman »

pixletwin wrote:The troll was definitely intentional. The whole scene with Audrey. Listening to Charlie on the phone, thinking he was going to yield something of interest only to go tight lipped and Audrey yelling "YOU AREN'T GOING TO TELL ME WHAT SHE SAID!!??!!?"

I couldn't of said it better myself.
I lost it when he pulled out the fucking rotary phone - so funny. And yes, Audrey alternated between being part of the torture and being us. I don't expect to hear about at least 50% of the people mentioned in the last 20 minutes ever again. Which is clearly deliberate.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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N. Needleman
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by N. Needleman »

rugerblackhawk357 wrote:two seasons and a movie and he was special agent dale cooper. "my life, my tapes", pretty much the absolute archetypal hero. we had 18 episodes to explore this awesome character wrestling his shadow.
That was never going to happen in the way you keep describing - some high-octane thriller show where a bunch of dudes chase Evil Coop in an action-packed epic. It has never been that kind of show and Lynch has never been that kind of filmmaker.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
sewhite2000
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by sewhite2000 »

John Justice Wheeler wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote: I think a lot of what people are interpreting as "trolling" (a relatively recent concept DKL has likely never heard of and has no interest in) is actually shaggy-dog storytelling, a real lost art in today's fast-paced media
Perhaps in part yes but a lot of what he's doing with these scenes is a kind of willful perversity, extending them far beyond the norm generally allowed on TV to convey the minimal plot based info that they tend to contain. This is an aesthetic that goes back to the original show (e.g. waiter scene, Dell Mibbler, etc.) but really permeates much of his work (it's a perversity that can also be glimpsed specifically in scenes in which action starts a moment before or after it generally would in a standard set-up). What I love about these moments is the way in which they confront the audience with a sudden recognition of what they have just come to accept or expect in conventional form; that these are simply distinct elements of a conventional form, a specific kind of craft or artistry but by no means the only kind. On that level alone it is greatly appreciated.
There was no World Wide Web back then, but I distinctly remember what passed for social media in 1990 blowing up over that endless scene with Cooper and the old, doddering waiter to open Season Two. Late night talk shows. Morning talk shows. Radio talk shows. Entertainment columns in newspapers and magazines. "What the hell was that? Get on with the freakin' story already?" would pretty much summarize it. And I remember how crazy it made virtually everyone I knew who watched the show. It was the beginning of the end of America's love affair with Twin Peaks, and no matter how brilliant I thought it was, Twin Peaks may have been doomed for cancellation from that moment.

Now the viewership is down to a tiny fraction of the people who watched Season One and at least part of Season Two, and people are STILL complaining about the pacing and the delayed gratification of resolution and the agonizingly drawn out awkwardness of building tension but still not revealing anything? If you hate those kinda scenes, I don't know why you're here, because that's David Lynch all over, people! Certainly you knew that coming in. This show isn't attracting neophytes, is it?
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by pvilmur »

A couple thoughts on points raised --

When Diane says "Coordinates plus 2", I believe she is recalling the number in the photo by assigning each letter in the word "coordinates" to a number. She then needed to add two more to total 13. So it was a mnemonic device.

The scene where the warden gets shot wasn't a throw-away -- this scene follows Ben's fond recollection of his father giving him the bike. The assassination scene depicts the warden's son horrified by the death of his father. There's a connection there.
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sycamore
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by sycamore »

If Richard Horne was Audrey's son, wouldn't Frank Truman have gone directly to Audrey (the most direct living relative)? Wouldn't that be proper procedure for a sheriff? Doesn't the fact that the sheriff went to Ben Horne mean that Ben (as grandfather) is the closest living relative? Ben said, "Richard never had a father" ... but he didn't say anything about him not having a mother. Richard didn't go attack Audrey demanding money, he attacked Sylvia Horne. Maybe Audrey doesn't have money, however, Charlie seems like a workaholic contract attorney type of person and probably not poor. Maybe Richard and Audrey are an estranged mother and son. Maybe Richard is the son of Donna and the Hayward family rejected her son - after the revelation that Ben is Donna's real father at the end of season 2. I'm more inclined to thnk Donna and DoppleCooper and that Ben and Sylvia became Richard's guardians after 'something' happened to Donna (probably many years ago). And maybe that's why the role of Gersten Hayward was written in ... to explain what ever did happen to the Hayward family.
sewhite2000
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by sewhite2000 »

pvilmur wrote:A couple thoughts on points raised --

When Diane says "Coordinates plus 2", I believe she is recalling the number in the photo by assigning each letter in the word "coordinates" to a number. She then needed to add two more to total 13. So it was a mnemonic device.

The scene where the warden gets shot wasn't a throw-away -- this scene follows Ben's fond recollection of his father giving him the bike. The assassination scene depicts the warden's son horrified by the death of his father. There's a connection there.
Can't prove this and not trying to swipe credit, but I sent the guy who posted the question about Diane a PM several hours ago saying almost the exact same thing you did. Although I thought she associated each syllable of "coordinate" with a small group of numbers, maybe for or five for each syllable, then she had two numbers left over at the end.

The shocking appearance of the boy at the very end, and the assassins' readiness to head on to Wendy's were both very nice twists to what I originally thought was an unusually straightforward, plot-advancing scene. I started by thinking, "Wow, this didn't already take place off camera?" But I like what you said about there being a connection between scenes.
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BEARisonFord
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by BEARisonFord »

The Sarah Palmer scenes had some of the most serious FWWM vibes i've felt from this season so far, I loved it. This episode also saw usage of a lot of old music cues, which I definitely appreciated.

i definitely don't think David Lynch is "trolling" anyone, that seems like a desperate reach to try and reconcile some of his less conventional choices.
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Agent Sam Stanley
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Agent Sam Stanley »

I wonder if someone will ever rescue Norma, Jacoby and Nadine from the time loop they're trapped in. Maybe that'll be the main plot for S4?

Sarah's scenes were amazing. So was Ben's.
Something tells me Audrey is not Richard's mother. Why would Frank go to his grandfather first instead of his mother? And how come Audrey doesn't care that her son attacked and robbed her own mother?

Speaking of which, I didn't hate the Audrey scene. I loved the look of her husband at the end.


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Wally Brando
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Wally Brando »

raltenbach wrote:The way Sarah was acting when Hawk paid his visit lead me to two conclusions:

1. BOB is currently inhabiting Sarah.

2. The kid from the store is the first new victim (that was him in the kitchen, likely near death)
Like this theory a lot.
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krishnanspace
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by krishnanspace »

Maybe the hype was a reverse psychology effect.They actually wanted to lower our expectations for Part 13.Why else would they do that?
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Soolsma
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Soolsma »

So since Audrey is probably not Richard's mother, Johnny Horne pretty much has to be the father, right?

Well, I know a girl who was kind of a nymphomaniac and who used to hang around him occasionally.

Richard Horne is Laura Palmer's secret son. :wink:
Carrie Page: "It's a long way... In those days, I was too young to know any better."
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