Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Mallard » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:56 am

crazyscottishguy wrote:Part 12 reminded me A LOT of Part 6.

I hope next week things go BOOM!

To me, Part 12 was the anti-Part 7.

Part 7 advanced a lot plots in a short pace of time, and just when the audience needed it.

Part 12 slammed on the brakes just when the audience was ready to start the final sprint to the finish, which is very frustrating. the
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Ene » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:06 am

Rami Airola wrote:
AgentEcho wrote:I'd actually never heard the term shaggy-dog story and looked it up, and I agree it perfectly characterizes a lot of what Lynch has been doing. Most shaggy-dog storytellers don't have the benefit of 25 years of buildup to toy with.

Thanks for introducing me to the term, I now realize I was a shaggy dog story teller when I was a kid, I just didn't know what the term was. It's no wonder a lot of this humor is connecting with me.

I had never heard about that either. Very interesting.
This season has really been very much about exactly that.
However, here's what wikipedia tells about it:
"A lengthy shaggy dog story derives its humour from the fact that the joke-teller held the attention of the listeners for a long time (such jokes can take five minutes or more to tell) for no reason at all, as the end resolution is essentially meaningless."
The problem with the Audrey scene was that the joke-teller wasn't able to hold the attention of the listener at all. It was badly written and badly directed shaggy dog story. He's been able to pull it of several times though, but especially here it was a miss.

Agent Sam Stanley wrote:Speaking of which, I didn't hate the Audrey scene. I loved the look of her husband at the end.

Yeah, I thought that was funny too (same type of a joke has been used in one Finnish sketch comedy series and it was funny as hell), but it's just a shame the way into that "punchline" was very very hard to travel and something I probably skip in future viewings.

Which Finnish show? XD Not a big fan of our comedy shows tbh

I liked part 12 alright, nowhere near the best we've seen, but don't think it was anywhere near as bad as part 3 or part 10. I love seeing how varied everyone's opinions on these "episodes" are.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:07 am

baxter wrote:
I was really annoyed to catch an Audrey spoiler in the chat window this morning (and have resolved to try and avoid this site completely on show day rather than try and get tidbits), but the scene itself was indeed underwhelming for me. I'm not particularly attached to the character of Audrey, but it just seemed way too long (as did the really laboured bike story).

This was a problem for me when people rather gratuitously insisted on discussing spoilers for another show in there... best to simply disable the chat window. Go to your profile window, click on the mChat tab and select "no" for "display on index page".
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby MarFRELL » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:08 am

I could handle TP 1000% better if she'd just put her hair behind her shoulders. I was getting inappropriately angry at her hair in the opening scene.

Moving right along... there was a very strong color palet amongst the ladies this episode. Diane, Audrey, and french woman, all in various combinations of red/black.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Ene » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:15 am

I personally thought the French woman was hilarious, her acting was just perfectly over the top. Kind of surprised though that the womanizer theme for Cole is so central.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:26 am

baxter wrote:Just finished watching, and I'm glad I had my expectations lowered by the chat window this morning. and went in just expecting a regular episode.

It was great! I loved, loved, loved the return of the backwards FWWM sound design, and the Sarah Palmer stuff was amazing. I was laughing throughout the scene with Gordon's "friend", which was simply ridiculous physical comedy (it reminded me of On The Air actually). This isn't the weakest part for me. All of it was stronger than the endless casino scene in Part 3.

I was really annoyed to catch an Audrey spoiler in the chat window this morning (and have resolved to try and avoid this site completely on show day rather than try and get tidbits), but the scene itself was indeed underwhelming for me. I'm not particularly attached to the character of Audrey, but it just seemed way too long (as did the really laboured bike story).

The original show had far more filler than this though, surely? I guess the complaint here is that they got to do exactly what they want so the filler shouldn't be there, but I think that is naive.

no way did the original have more filler than this not even close.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby TwinsPeak » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:28 am

Did Audrey say she was sleeping with her son?

And ya maybe the male cashier was in the Palmer house.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby richsmith » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:29 am

N. Needleman wrote:I don't see the grossly negative reaction online that you do. Polarizing, yes. Overwhelmingly negative, far from it. I think the reaction in dedicated fan forums is actually far more vehement.

Yeah I have no idea what he's seeing either. Each and every single episode of The Return has 100% positive ratings on Rotten Tomatoes so far (although I suspect that may change after last night's underwhelming episode), and the primary discussion spots like Reddit and AV Club are also almost entirely enthusiastic.

It sounds like the same sort of thing as the poster who keeps claiming that Episode 11 was undeniably awful, even though it was received pretty much everywhere as one of the best episodes of the run. In other words, they see what they want to see, evidence be damned.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:30 am

Daliz wrote:Not the best episode but not bad.

Red curtains in the hotel room, that's a nice touch.
Sarah Palmer is great and creepy. "Men are coming" are probably certain "dirty bearded men in a room". What was that in her kitchen? And the fan..

I liked Audrey. I don't know what people were expecting, something like those RR scenes with the jazzy music, just like in 1990?
I felt she was very Audrey. The plot seems interesting, about the truck, Billy etc. The same truck borrowed/stolen by Richard?

Didn't like the warden hit being shown. It wasn't necessary and Chantal & Hutch are my least favourite characters anyway.
Also didn't like the french girl.

Edit. Oh and the shit digging shovel shit. Enough of that already please. It's getting old.

I thought Audrey's acting was very good actually, she seemed interesting. I loved that even though its Showtime they have not gone crazy with the cursing and then Boom F-bomb Audrey. Its cool that she would be the one with the vile mouth. Maybe she should get a job in the white house :) But the scene was painfully long and ambiguous. It got so bad for me I literally began looking around my room at the walls and ceiling. Thats how boring that scene became. Lynch loves to screw with us but frankly he does it too much.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:31 am

counterpaul wrote:“Albert, sometimes I really worry about you.”

Lynch has told us, and shown us, in so many ways throughout this project that the most important thing is to settle in and let the journey happen as it may. Gordon and his guest, and Gordon's genuine, kindhearted concern over Albert's impatience, might be the best distillation of this theme yet.

Absolutely agree. A long-winded scene that literally ends with someone staring at David Lynch, frustrated but patient, seemed like the perfect metaphor for an audience that's probably been waiting for something like the old Twin Peaks, but particularly old favourite characters, only to find it's taking ages until we properly Return to anything resembling the old show, with all our heroes in town. I really liked that scene though. The way Cole's lady friend made her exit, slipping her shoes on, applying lipstick, straightening her dress, felt like someone was slowly and deliberately packing something away, or at least putting it away for later, as if to say "this part of the story is over".

With that in mind I also felt that the guy vacuuming the closed bar was a call-back to the sweeping scene from Episode 7, particularly as it ends up with a shadow character at the bar on a phone. And I figure that there's a reason, and maybe these episodes are the ones that divide The Return into three acts, and that the things that appear in this episode reflect the tying up of some of the loose ends, and pointing certain things towards their final destination:

- Tammy is officially inducted into the Blue Rose team.
- Jerry finally escapes from the woods.
- Sarah Palmer warns that "Men are coming".
- We finally see the Palmer house but get the sense that something is wrong here.
- We've confirmed that the police know Richard Horne is responsible for the hit and run and Miriam's near death, so they just need to find him.
- 'Chekhov's key', sitting so deliberately on the desk, finally falls into the sheriff's hands - not because Ben thinks it's important but because he feels it would be a lovely memento for his brother.
- The warden is assassinated, so Hutch and Chantel finally head on to Vegas, where Dougie is.
- Audrey finally appears, but we are left with a scene that delivers more questions than answers (although we finally have confirmation of who Billy is), and seems to end on a cliffhanger of a question.
- Diane gets around to checking out the coordinates, and we finally have a signpost pointing directly towards Twin Peaks.
- Even the final scene, where Trick turns up and says he was almost run over - was that Richard fleeing from Twin Peaks, or someone else arriving?

I also loved the fact that Charlie is sitting at a desk with lots of paper work, and wants Audrey to leave him alone, so he can get it done. That seems to be echoing all the things we're worried will not get resolved before the end of the night. Come on, Audrey, we need to get this paperwork done. It's in following an apparent diversion from his work we then get a bunch of exposition that seems to give us answers. And maybe there's a parallel with Norma's paperwork that she's been sitting on all this time. Nadine too has an office full of paperwork that's unchanged. Maybe these are three distinct threads (the Horne lineage, the Briggs lineage, the crazies) that have been deliberately going at a slow pace that will now (finally!) get pushed into sharp focus. Hopefully Sarah's story too, although the Palmer lineage apparently ended with the death of Laura and Leland.

'Act two' starting with the mostly flashback episode 8 worked well, so I figure that episode 13 will, if it's the beginning of an 'act three', have some big things to impart. In any case I'm pretty sure we'll hit the ground running, even if we don't jump straight back into the Black Lodge (I suspect that might be episode 16, with the "No knock, no doorbell" title).

Further observations:

- I saw one person mention Jerry either had blood on his hands or red gloves and have to admit, I spotted that but wasn't sure which one it was either. Anyone had a chance to rematch that scene yet?
- I got a better glimpse at the photo of the arm with the coordinates than I did in the previous episode, and it died seem to me like the there was a circle of cleaner skin near the beginning of the coordinates. It did make me wonder if it was an indication that the Blue Rose FBI had tampered with the picture and were deliberately pointing Diane in the direction of the town of Twin Peaks. At the same time, as someone who regularly uses Photoshop, it did look like really bad tampering - I can't imagine someone would do that deliberately unless they've got a terrible eye for details... which makes me more inclined to believe it was an genuine clean spot on the arm.
- Diane still looking as shifty as ever and drinking a lot - she's done a terrible job of appearing to be on their side, even if they hadn't been tapping her phone.
- Loved that when Hawk climbed the steps to the Palmer house the camera was angled in such a way as to make the ceiling fan clearly visible. It really helped me feel like this was the Twin Peaks of years ago.
- There was a line I wasn't too sure about that Sarah said to Hawk at the door - was she talking about a "bad story" or a "backstory"? In either case, what was that story?
- I've never really liked the Dr Amp stuff but, strangely, I didn't mind it this time around. I didn't realise how precisely it matched what we've seen before, and somehow my familiarity with it made me listen to it a bit more and not automatically dismiss it as the ramblings of a crazy guy (I figured he was just rehashing the same advert in order to sell more of his shovels). Does the gold shovel have anything to do with the alchemic references we've had in past episodes?
- Audrey says that someone named Chuck told her that someone named Tina was the last person to see Billy. Charlie mentions that Chuck stole Billy’s truck. I assume that Billy is the missing farmer, but I wasn't sure whether to assume 'Chuck' was someone who stole the truck for Richard, or a nickname for Richard (for some reason). What are other people's assumptions?
- I'm wondering if all the bands are doing a second set. I wouldn't mind seeing some more Nine Inch Nails, however unlikely that the Roadhouse could get them in for two nights.

It was perhaps a little misleading to call this episode "Let's rock!" and then not really having any such hinted at momentum following the "Let's rock!" scene. But I found that kind of funny.
Last edited by DeepBlueSeed on Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby oxyboldine » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:32 am

Hello everyone. Part 12 gave the impression that the script didn't move forward a lot - well it even went backward with the Dr Amp's show (one new timeline mystery). Nevertheless, something did progressed: the time we spent in Twin Peaks. For Part 12, it is up to 34 minutes. Everything is slowly leading to TP, as the scene with Diane searching the coordinates shows. The different mysteries are more and more happening in Twin Peaks.

With Vicksvapor77 we checked the timing of the scenes in TP since Part 1, here it is:
Part 1 : 9 min. 30
Part 2 : 8 min.
Part 3 : 7 min.
Part 4 : 15 min.
Part 5 : 20 min.
Part 6 : 22 min.
Part 7 : 24 min.
Part 8 : 4 min. 40
Part 9 : 22 min.
Part 10 : 23 min. 40
Part 11 : 20 min. 30
Part 12 : 34 min.

* we don't take into account the credits, after "Staring Kyle McLachlan"
** I hope my English is OK, as usual (French poster)
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby richsmith » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:34 am

baxter wrote:Well, it was great for me, precisely because I was expecting it to be shit. I'm not slavishly claiming the whole thing is genius. I just enjoyed it. The first half particularly, since I could have been watching FWWM as its best during those Sarah Palmer scenes.

You can read my posts on here- I'm not one of these "my God it is all genius" types. I found last week a bit ordinary for example. I just went in to this with low expectations and came out pleasantly surprised. It's still a slow, slow build though...

Yeah I think unfortunately that the Jacoby / Audrey / Roadhouse scenes, coming as they did in a row in the back half of the episode, are making people respond to the whole with less enthusiasm than it deserves. The first half of the episode was pretty fantastic. But it undeniably went splat once the weirdly reused Jacoby footage started.

It's a bummer that Lynch/Frost keep coming back to Jacoby's rants. It was funny the first time, but at this point he's just a bore. It would be like Wally Brando showing up every other week to do his Marlon impression.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Rami Airola » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:36 am

Ene wrote:Which Finnish show? XD Not a big fan of our comedy shows tbh

The legendary "Tonnin seteli" sketch:
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:38 am

Gotta go to work, so I can't read 25 pages. The first few pages confirm my feelings.

- Saddest episode so far (Ben, Sarah)
- Audrey: WTF?
- No joy at all
- Warden assassinated in front of son.
- More characters. Let me get out my spreadsheet.
- Even the Chromatics song sucked, as did the baffling conversation between the girls

I had trouble sleeping after watching this shit.

This has been my least favorite episode. We should have seen it coming after the emotional high ending on part 11. I'll have to guess that this is the typical "2/3 of the way through a movie, you hit the low" kind of thing. We'll see.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby djsunyc » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:40 am

regarding the roadhouse scenes...interesting point brought up earlier that this could by our version of "invitation to love" - but i don't necessarily agree. i always thought ITL was nothing more than lynch/frost mocking soap opera's while winking at the audience that twin peaks itself was a soap opera.

these roadhouse scenes don't convey any of that. i think it's there for lynch/frost to show just how messed up the kids at twin peaks are. which i get...but ultimately, the only real payoff will be if there's an entire episode dedicated to them to connect all of them together. otherwise, they are simply just throwaways. we'll know after all is said and done but the richard scene was enough to show how corrupt and drug infested the scene still was - the other two scenes really didn't enhance that story in the slightest.

maybe these kids are introduced now and they will be the focus of season 4 (if there is one) - but that's just me reaching at straws trying to make some sense of it.

same goes for the trailer park. i love carl rodd but we already saw him as a compassionate helpful guy twice. a third scene is overkill unless the blood ties in at the end. again, a wait and see but tough for me to really see any point to that scene.

i like lynch - i like twin peaks - i like this journey - but it's not made of teflon - there are some stuff that can be criticized.

i hope after this is all said and done, someone youtube's all the different storylines together to make one cohesive film for each location.

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