Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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referendum
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:55 am

One of the things I'm still thinking about is how the line 'Harry, your brother, ...' was written by two accomplished and experienced writers, and never removed in the time between scripting, re-drafts, and filming. Pretty sure Frank knows Harry is his brother, Ben.


this is a comment that has been made several times as if it is a false note. i can think of several people, including some in my own family, who refer to '' your mother '' when it is also their mother, or who use Christian names or statements of relation as a distancing device or, or who underline things like ' Harry, your brother'' in formal situations where they really mean something more personal. It was not a false note for me. Rather something awkward and quite tender, and a little respectful and stiff. acknowledging both the personal and the formal relation and not quite sure which to go for under the circumstances, and going for both out of over-consideration.

Well- observed and true, I thought.
Last edited by referendum on Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Jerry Horne » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:57 am

Predictions:

Charlie is Audrey's Psychiatrist.

Albert doctored the coordinates to bring Mr C. to Twin Peaks

Mr C. almost ran Trick off the road and he will drive past the Welcome To Twin Peaks sign (which I don't think we've seen yet)

Mr C. will change his appearance to closely match Good Coop.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Rami Airola » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:59 am

Jacob wrote:Obviously, a lot in this part was about "trolling". It's not just "shaddy-dog storytelling" like Mr. Reindeer said : it's clear here Lynch is making fun of the viewers. And I agree with Jerry Horne : it's not only the case in Audrey sequence, it's everywhere. The endless scene of Gordon with the french woman, the Jacoby/Nadine sequence (with, like cgs027 said, shots already used before), the fucking scene between Ben and Truman where they are on repeat about Harry being happy to have the key as a memento... It's unreal. But it's not because there's a meta aspect to it that's "comedy gold". To me, saying it's good just because Lynch is consciously messing with expectations are a bunch of excuses. It's a conceptual argument. The real question here is "what Lynch wants to say while doing that ? And why, especially, did he felt that he had to take this approch so fucking long ?". Personally, I just don't understand the intent, the poesy, the deepness of it. It just felt repetitive, boring, cruel and, honestly... quite stupid. But I'm really curious to read someone opinion about that... Just why ? And I don't mean an explanation about the viewers themselves (be patient, the journey is better than the destination, blablabla). Is there an allegory to all this cruelty ? I'm really wondering.


Maybe the simplest solution is the truth:
Lynch isn't deliberately messing with anyone. He just made a few scenes he genuinely thought were good/sexy/funny/whatever. But it just happens to be that for many they just were badly written and directed scenes. There might not be any other reason than Lynch just doing what he thinks is good and that just is not resonating with the viewers.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:04 am

Rami Airola wrote:
Jacob wrote:Obviously, a lot in this part was about "trolling". It's not just "shaddy-dog storytelling" like Mr. Reindeer said : it's clear here Lynch is making fun of the viewers. And I agree with Jerry Horne : it's not only the case in Audrey sequence, it's everywhere. The endless scene of Gordon with the french woman, the Jacoby/Nadine sequence (with, like cgs027 said, shots already used before), the fucking scene between Ben and Truman where they are on repeat about Harry being happy to have the key as a memento... It's unreal. But it's not because there's a meta aspect to it that's "comedy gold". To me, saying it's good just because Lynch is consciously messing with expectations are a bunch of excuses. It's a conceptual argument. The real question here is "what Lynch wants to say while doing that ? And why, especially, did he felt that he had to take this approch so fucking long ?". Personally, I just don't understand the intent, the poesy, the deepness of it. It just felt repetitive, boring, cruel and, honestly... quite stupid. But I'm really curious to read someone opinion about that... Just why ? And I don't mean an explanation about the viewers themselves (be patient, the journey is better than the destination, blablabla). Is there an allegory to all this cruelty ? I'm really wondering.


Maybe the simplest solution is the truth:
Lynch isn't deliberately messing with anyone. He just made a few scenes he genuinely thought were good/sexy/funny/whatever. But it just happens to be that for many they just were badly written and directed scenes. There might not be any other reason than Lynch just doing what he thinks is good and that just is not resonating with the viewers.

That's probably also the case - I do think it's Lynch just thinking some things are funny. It does feel very self-aware and meta though - and very repetitive. There's been numerous scenes of characters expressing impatience, anger and frustration with slow conversations or sequences. It's hard to believe these weren't written in a tongue-in-cheek manner, which indicates Lynch (and/or Frost) were predicting a frustrated response and/or knew they were stretching things out to accomodate 18 episodes? There seems to be too many references and too much exposition on impatience for it not to be intentional.
Last edited by Jonah on Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Rami Airola » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:08 am

Jerry Horne wrote:Mr C. almost ran Trick off the road and he will drive past the Welcome To Twin Peaks sign (which I don't think we've seen yet)

Mr C. will change his appearance to closely match Good Coop.


Ooooh, and while driving past the sign Mr C. sends messages to Diane.
And it turns out BadCoop never stopped recording messages to Diane.

Maybe they will make a new version of Coopers tapes for fans to buy but now it also has 25 years worth of BadCoop recordings to Diane.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Mallard » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:10 am

Rami Airola wrote:
Jerry Horne wrote:Mr C. almost ran Trick off the road and he will drive past the Welcome To Twin Peaks sign (which I don't think we've seen yet)

Mr C. will change his appearance to closely match Good Coop.


Ooooh, and while driving past the sign Mr C. sends messages to Diane.
And it turns out BadCoop never stopped recording messages to Diane.

Maybe they will make a new version of Coopers tapes for fans to buy but now it also has 25 years worth of BadCoop recordings to Diane.


I'd buy it.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:10 am

While I was underwhelmed with Part 12, I believe the fact I hadn't tuned in to the pre-show hype that took twitter by storm (which I don't read, except when other discussion boards link to it) most likely kept me from being disappointed.
I still wasn't ready for the slowness of the scenes. Ben and Frank's chat was for me especially excruciating because it was serious (whereas Albert & Gordon in Cole's hotel room invoked more comedy).

Two things intrigue me about Audrey and Charlie's scene:
1. Neither moved from their spot at all while the conversation went on.
Any suggested action about to take place -- even just him getting up from his desk (like when he starts to relent toward the end, "OK I'll go...") was not happening. I mean, zero blocking of any kind for the actors. Usually there's some pacing or change of position at some point. Was this another meta joke from the show's creators? (in response to the complaint "Where's the action?!")

There are many times during Twin Peaks I get the sense not just a dream-quality is being evoked but the scenes that take place inside a dollhouse.. not unlike Johnny's in S1 but really any dollhouse. The dream glimpses that feel unreal mimick at times what children playing-out or role-playing with a doll set would sound like. They're making it up as they go, such children: manipulating the dolls in some moments while at others you have fellow-character dolls or animals or players sitting stock-still in place (like Charlie) almost for props.

(Part 11 had one scene in the desert where the close-up of the Mitchem brothers arguing, reveals in the background watching, waiting, a blurred image of DougieCoop holding the box; he looks like a doll figure as the camera lets him occupy the background without focusing for several seconds.)
Agent Earle wrote: I wish they'd go back to that early showrunning approach (various writing-directing contributors putting on screen Lynch & Frost-approved concepts and plottings, with Lynch himself doing an odd one here and there).
I'm convinced the TP that I came to love was the result of this multi-voiced collaboration, various POVs and styles, as flawed as the result could become at times the momentum restored itself somehow. Thus: I didn't expect a strictly-Lynchian endeavor such as The Return to resemble much of the same *except* if upcoming episodes prove otherwise. That omniverse of participating guest directors was a little like Lynch & Frost inviting playmates to have-at-it with DKL's dollhouse or scale model railroad settings or miniatures set. Except at times I feel I'm getting manipulated as much as the players.

2. Audrey mentions having had a dream. I'd almost forgotten.
She points out that she dreamed Billy showed up "bleeding from the nose and mouth." Since much of her argument badgering Charlie was nonsensical and more haranguing him which would seem ineffective persuasion-tactic to get him to do as she asked: mentioning the dream was kind of thrown-in there and nearly obscured in the rest of her nattering. I think we, the viewers, are supposed to pay attention to most any mention of dreams in TP:TR.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby cgs027 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:11 am

Jerry Horne wrote:Predictions:

Albert doctored the coordinates to bring Mr C. to Twin Peaks



Interesting thought, but a pretty sloppy job of it. Diane isn't suspicious at all that Albert or Gordon didn't relay the fact that "Holy sh*t, these coordinates appear to be pulling us back into Twin Peaks!!! Remember that murder case Coop was working on back there when he soon after disappeared off of our radar?!?"

I'd think if they were trying to trick her, they would play along with this totally crazy connection to their respective pasts, and Coop's.

As it stands, in the last episode, you have Albert nonchalantly begin to tell everyone (including her) that they point to some small town south of... (before he is cut off), and then have the big "reveal" in this episode that it is a place that Albert should be VERY familiar with. So, trick or no trick, doesn't make much sense how this played out over these 2 episodes to me.

(But, I could see where they may go this route regardless).
Last edited by cgs027 on Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby DamnFineCreamedCorn » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:12 am

This was the first time in The Return that I've found it a chore to finish a part. It just didn't gel for me. It felt like mostly leftovers, filler and repurposed footage.

I did love Diane entering through the red curtains, Carl's display of kindness and his advice against selling blood, Cole's new friend and everything with Sarah Palmer.

So on to Part 13.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby The Gazebo » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:15 am

Mallard wrote:
crazyscottishguy wrote:Part 12 reminded me A LOT of Part 6.

I hope next week things go BOOM!


To me, Part 12 was the anti-Part 7.

Part 7 advanced a lot plots in a short pace of time, and just when the audience needed it.

Part 12 slammed on the brakes just when the audience was ready to start the final sprint to the finish, which is very frustrating.


I agree. Part 7 was a welcome sip of water on a scorching day, and part 12 was your favourite band walking off stage after just a couple of kick-ass songs. But enough with the analogies. I liked it more than many others (not the weakest of the season for me, which seems to be the common accusation). Fairly convinced we're really going to move into the business end of the show next week.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:22 am

Audrey Horne wrote:editied.

I came here to hear Audrey's reaction. Personally, I don't know what to think about the Audrey scene... I can see parallels to Catherine, which is interesting. But man, the lives of our characters seem increasingly depressing. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby firefly2193 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:23 am

Jerry Horne wrote:Predictions:

Charlie is Audrey's Psychiatrist.

Albert doctored the coordinates to bring Mr C. to Twin Peaks

Mr C. almost ran Trick off the road and he will drive past the Welcome To Twin Peaks sign (which I don't think we've seen yet)

Mr C. will change his appearance to closely match Good Coop.


Like the Charlie is Audrey's Psychiatrist theory. Makes a lot of sense, and is actually very cool.

Not sure about the Albert co-ordinates one. Why would he want to lead Mr. C to Twin Peaks? Isn't Twin Peaks more likely to be the actual location of the real co-ordinates on Ruth's arm?
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:23 am

If this is Audrey's coma dream, she's done amazingly well to imagine what she looks like 25 years after her accident.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:24 am

Jerry Horne wrote:Albert doctored the coordinates to bring Mr C. to Twin Peaks


I suspected so as well so I checked for differences between the arm and the photo. On the arm only the digits for latitude are visible but they are the same as Twin Peaks'.

More about coordinates:

GT86WFx.jpg
GT86WFx.jpg (262.25 KiB) Viewed 4418 times


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"The site was the scene of the only fatal nuclear reactor incident in U.S. history on the night of January 3, 1961."

From reddit
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Re: RE: Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:33 am

The Gazebo wrote:
dronerstone wrote:Those who already stopped watching halfway through: it wasn't meant for you from the beginning. How can you judge if you've only watched 12/18 parts anyway? It's like standing up and leaving a theatre after seeing 50 minutes of a 90 minute film.


No, it would be like leaving the theatre after 12 hours. You can't use simple maths for this.
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