Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

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SpookyDollhouse
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookyDollhouse » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:56 pm

Twin Peaks Podcast wrote:
Wonderful & Strange wrote:It's like some people think Lynch is incapable of producing something that contains mistakes or something that's just plain not compelling to watch.


Nobody is saying this. The point is it's hard to tell and knowing how he is as a creator, every possible thing one could think is a mistake probably really isn't. Or is it?
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Rami Airola » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:57 pm

Ross wrote:
Rami Airola wrote:
Wonderful & Strange wrote:Instead, for some reason, people assume this is some kind of mistake. Try beginning with the possibility that it's intentional, and you begin to see that intention.


No, not a mistake but a bad judgment from the creators' part what comes to writing and editing the show.

I don't think the repeated Jacoby/Nadine footage had anything to do with writing. Seems 100% an editing decision.


Writing too in the sense that whatever he's rambling about isn't interesting enough. It was too long even the first time he was introduced. The shit shoveling redeemed it then.
So when this thing goes on again and again there's an issue with both writing and editing.

And there is the possibility that this was actually written exactly like this on the script (Jacoby appearing several times saying the same things and Nadine always watching him) which would make it even more an issue with writing.
Last edited by Rami Airola on Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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referendum
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:01 pm

It's like some people think Lynch is incapable of producing something that contains mistakes or something that's just plain not compelling to watch.


i am not sure this is the way to go, saying that because someone is an artist it excuses them from publishing shit. Usually when artists produce shit, they choose not to publish it, or someone edits it out for them, or they can't find a publisher.

I think : novel, long form work, uneven, digressive, unfinished( to date) is nearer the mark. See how it adds up when it is done.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:06 pm

1st exchange of the show.

Albert: "Thank God Gordon stocks the plane from his own wine cellar."

Gordon: "No, you'll be the one to tell her."

I was going to post a criticism of this scene, because Cole’s misinterpretation of Albert’s statement only makes sense if Gordon thinks Albert is speaking to him and not Tammy. But this is exactly was Gordon assumes! He turns and checks the room for bugs before Albert starts talking, and naturally assumes Albert is addressing him. What I first saw as a flaw turns out to be a somewhat sophisticated joke. This is why some here are keeping the faith, as it were. (Gordon hears "Blah Blah Gordon . . . . tell her.")
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:16 pm

Soolsma wrote:
BigEd wrote:I highly doubt that, if Johnny were the father, Ben would say "Richard never had a father." That would be the equivalent of him saying that his own handicapped son is a non-person.


Disagree. Twin Peaks is not necessarily overly politically correct like that. Psychologically speaking, growing up without one of the or both parents definitely has it's effects. A father figure, even more so for boys, is very much someone to look up to, learn from, give guidance, et cetera and thereby serve to develop emotions for generally felt towards a father. Since Johnny is unable to properly fulfill these tasks (whether you consider him a person or not, I think most do), I will not exclude that's what Ben meant.

Also, if she's the mother, shouldn't Audrey be informed by Truman like Ben was or at least depressed/worried about Richard instead of solely stessing over this Billy.

It has to be either Johnny, Audrey, or another child of Ben and Sylvia we haven't heard about who was already fertile around the time of the events 25 years ago (which I doubt).


Audrey is the mother. He calls Sylvia "Grandma," so that should rule out Donna, a prostitute at one-eyed-Jacks or any of the other wacky theories out there. Truman went to Ben because he wanted him to pay for Mirriam's operation. Audrey is likely estranged from both Ben and her Son (and perhaps most of the population of Twin Peaks). Her situation is obviously deteriorated, as she is "married" to some guy under a contract and admittedly sleeping with the now-missing "Billy." I don't think it is the cops' job to go and tell family members when their Son is expected of committing Murder. Frank and Ben obviously have a relationship that allows Frank to approach him regarding the hospital bills.

This has nothing to do with political correctness. Not sure how you understand what a father means to his son (and visa versa). As a father, regardless of what state my son was in, I would never say that his children never had a father.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:22 pm

The Audrey scene seems so disconnected to the other Hornes. Especially if Richard ends up being her son. I have no idea, but I wonder if behind the scenes things had anything to do with this. We know (or think) Sherilyn didn't sign on until very late in the shoot. Maybe they had to write the other scenes without knowing if Audrey would be appearing at all?
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:26 pm

firefly2193 wrote:
I think a lot of the frustration from people here is due to how we know TPTR was designed - there may have been filler in the original Twin Peaks, but that was a show filmed episode by episode, with different writers almost every episode, the Lynch and Frost often disappearing from the show completely for sustained periods. This was show carefully scripted way in advance, written as a movie by just two people, and directed by one person. My only thought is that stuff like this is the result of the extension from 9 parts to 18, or some something as a result of the editing.


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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:38 pm

Esselgee wrote:So was Ben worried when Frank mentioned they were looking into some old cases related to Agent Cooper that it might be bad for him. Ben likely doesn't know anything about Agent Cooper have "disappeared". He may think that old cases could relate to him (i.e. One-Eyed Jacks, Jean Renault, etc.).


I he says "Im gonna go get a sandwhich" then we know he is worried
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby aldiboronti » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:41 pm

I really think that the title Let's Rock is the reason that so many are disappointed with this episode. It suggested that we would be seeing more Black Lodge activity and when we didn't people became angry, some of them very angry. I can understand that. A week is a long time to anticipate an episode, to imagine all sorts of stuff that will be in it. When our expectations are crushed we of course blame the director.

But if we cut through all this, if we approach each episode without expectations of what will be happening we'll enjoy Twin Peaks all the more. I too was disappointed on first viewing. On watching again I loved every moment simply because I wasn't waiting for something weird and terrible to happen. Lynch knows exactly what he is doing.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:43 pm

BigEd wrote:I don't think it is the cops' job to go and tell family members when their Son is expected of committing Murder.


But surely they'd investigate all friends, family and locations a fugitive murder suspect might turn to. If she is the mother then they will either contact her later or there is something yrev weird going on, as suspected by many.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Rami Airola » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:47 pm

aldiboronti wrote:I really think that the title Let's Rock is the reason that so many are disappointed with this episode. It suggested that we would be seeing more Black Lodge activity and when we didn't people became angry, some of them very angry. I can understand that. A week is a long time to anticipate an episode, to imagine all sorts of stuff that will be in it. When our expectations are crushed we of course blame the director.

But if we cut through all this, if we approach each episode without expectations of what will be happening we'll enjoy Twin Peaks all the more. I too was disappointed on first viewing. On watching again I loved every moment simply because I wasn't waiting for something weird and terrible to happen. Lynch knows exactly what he is doing.


Nah, the bad scenes are still bad scenes. People would've been happy if the quality of the last half would've been as good as the quality of the first half regardless of any lodge activity happening.
It's not the first time the title has been something completely other than what it would hint at so I think people can expect the title to not mean anything big. There were lots of people, cast and fans, hyping up the episode though so that with the title could've had an effect on people but I still think that had the last 20 minutes or so been solid material people wouldn't have had issues with the episode.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:51 pm

aldiboronti wrote:I really think that the title Let's Rock is the reason that so many are disappointed with this episode. It suggested that we would be seeing more Black Lodge activity and when we didn't people became angry, some of them very angry. I can understand that. A week is a long time to anticipate an episode, to imagine all sorts of stuff that will be in it. When our expectations are crushed we of course blame the director.

I don't think that's the reason. Most people here loved the first half of the episode but were disappointed with the second half. If people hated the episode for the missing Black Lodge scenes, why didn't they hate the entire episode?


I rewatched Audrey's scene and here are some of the things I noticed.

This is the room Audrey and Charlie are in:
Image

The wood paneling and white wall reminded me of the wall behind the stairs in the woodsman scene of Part 11:
Image

And the doors behind Charlie have the same style as the door in Laura's picture:
Image

The room that Audrey and Charlie are in is upstairs, you can see a stair-rail behind a curtain to the left of the bookshelf:
Image

Maybe this is a bit far-fetched, as there are a lot of rooms with wood paneling in Twin Peaks, but a few people here thought that something was definitely not right in this scene. Some suggested she might still be in a coma or in a mental institution. What if she is trapped in the Lodge, convenience store and/or room from Laura's picture? I know, the convenience store and room on Laura's picture look very run-down and empty, but it could be that Audrey's scene was happening in her mind and she made it look more like a real life room. As I said, it's far-fetched and I'm probably wrong, but I would find that more interesting than Audrey just being married to some guy she doesn't like and it would explain why no one mentioned her in connection to Richard, when she is the most likely candidate for being his mother.

A few other things I noticed:

- On the mantelpiece behind Audrey I spotted the books Happy Times and T.S. Eliot's Four Quartets, which (according to wikipedia) consists of four poems that are "interlinked meditations with the common theme being man's relationship with time, the universe, and the divine". One of the poems is about "the unity of past, present, and future", another poem describes life as "travelling in a boat" (there was a picture of a boat on the wall behind Charlie). The title Happy Times is very ironic, considering Audrey's life didn't seem very happy in this scene. I don't know the book, but apparently one of the characters is a blind stepdaughter, which made me think of Naido, the woman in the Purple Room. Maybe someone here has read Four Quartets or Happy Times and can tell us if there are any parallels to Audrey's situation or the series in general?

- Audrey tells Charlie he should talk to his crystal ball, to which he replies he doesn't have a crystal ball, but there is something that looks very much like a crystal ball on his desk.

- Audrey says that Billy's been missing for two days. When Audrey was trapped in One Eyed Jacks in Season 2, Ben told Hary: "Audrey’s missing ... For as much as maybe two days. "
Last edited by Dreamy Audrey on Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby gary2381 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:54 pm

Was Albert saying that Cole recruited Desmond, himself, and Cooper or was he saying that Jefferies recurited them?
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:57 pm

Diane saying "Let's Rock" seems to me a reference to Chet Desmond's disappearance. As in the character was referencing what was later found on the car windshield at the last place Desmond was seen.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby HagbardCeline » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:58 pm

The scene with the French girl seemed like one of those interior sets that they filmed in France to qualify for the French production funding. In addition to shooting a certain amount of days in the country, I wonder if there is a requirement to have a certain amount of screen time as well. I don't mind long bizarre scenes, but the fact that they put so many of them in this episode is mostly what I found irritating. If the show had ended with just a chromatics song with the credits and had left out the scene with the two girls talking, I would have felt a lot better about the episode. That last scene just killed the small amount of joy I still had at that point

The list of people that Gordon names is similar to the deleted file that Tammy found in Secret History. It had all the same names, but also had Windom Earle.

I also considered that Audrey is institutionalized and Charlie is her doctor. Frankly I wouldn't mind that twist. Her dialogue seemed improvised to me.

Finally, someone kept posting about the pins that Albert and Gordon were wearing. Aren't those their FBI pins?

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