Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D, Annie

Rami Airola
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:31 am

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Rami Airola » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:44 am

Voided wrote:I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding about what Lynch does as a director. People seem to largely want to see quick, illustrative scenes that constantly move the narrative forward. Lynch likes to provide moments of intensity set against moments of off-kilter drama or slapstick etc. Often it's about creating a certain mood. It's about experiencing each moment......not waiting for the next.


I agree.
However, if we are supposed to experience each moment but now a scene makes you want to end this scene already and go to the next scene, there is something wrong.
That's what happened to me with the Jacoby-Audrey-Roadhouse combo.

Intentions and meta level feelings don't make bad writing, directing, acting or editing any better. Otherwise no piece of work should ever be criticized because I'm sure every movie and series have intentions and some meta level things and reasons behind all that is shown.
User avatar
Novalis
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:47 am

DeepBlueSeed wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:This is a dream sequence (please see the above paragraph before you disagree). It follows dream logic and uncannily captures the slow burn of dread experienced in a typical dream. A Typical Dream: I need to take my son to baseball practice. Oh my, he is late, I finally found the keys but now my neighbor needs help cleaning out his garage because he saw a rat. And these files need to be reordered, etc etc. (Coincidentally, last week I awoke from a dream and had to tell my wife, because the dream ended with me actually accomplishing my goal for the first time in years).

The husband is an aspect of Audrey’s personality, just as characters in IE are aspects of the main character. He (or rather she), is blocking Audrey from her desires, or perhaps trying to guide her towards salvation (the two not being mutally exclusive). As many have noted, both characters are rooted in their spots, she on the verge of leaving, he blocking the exit. Many times during the scene the momentum begins to take Audrey on her journey but progress is never made. He is very tired, and repeats this several times. It is very dark outside and there are thousands of square miles of woods. He seems not to know what Audrey wants throughout the conversation, and she must repeat herself. He says “you know I don’t have a crystal ball” as he gestures towards his crystal ball. He only has her best interests at heart, and has always taken care of her (Audrey doesn’t deny this). These are just a few of the surface details, and don’t include the nuances in acting and pacing. I could go on at length, but enough for tonight. I don't have time to get into the phone call.


This reminds me a lot of the TV shows 'Life on Mars' and 'Ashes to Ashes' wherein the protagonist in each was in a coma but who frequently received input from the real world from telephone calls, TVs, newspaper headlines that appeared around him/her. I'm still on the fence about the whole thing, but the idea of a dream world is making more sense to me now, more so than being directly in the Lodge. In that respect it makes they're every word suspect, perhaps more metaphor than truth.


The scene certainly follows dream logic, with the paralysis and frustrated efficiency of every attempted action or argument, but I don't think the scene has to literally take place in a dream for it to work according to this dream logic. I'm at a half-way place with this Audrey-Charlie setup: I could be convinced either way, but I am just as comfortable with it occupying some fuzzy almost-real place as well. It could be half-dreamed, like for example most memories are (especially when someone likes to 'remember things their own way', to quote Fred Madison).
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
User avatar
DeepBlueSeed
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:32 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby DeepBlueSeed » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:57 am

Cipher wrote:
The Gazebo wrote:
Rik Renault wrote:Also, what is the significance of the Palmer house fan? I know it's important but is there any confirmed readings of its synbolism in the canon?

The fan used to be switched on before Laura was raped. I suppose in the grander scheme it could also be a general symbol of malignant forces at work.

That's true, along with its purpose as a symbol of the omnipresence of electricity in domestic spaces.

(Electricity being, of course, one of the main tools of the Lodge entities, and one of Lynch's main fascinations being the uncanny/macabre domestic space.)

I'm blanking on whether or not it was in the final cut of FWWM or only "The Missing Pieces," but there's also a scene in which Laura is shouting "Who are you?" at the fan, which has light visual static superimposed over it. So there's an implication that, in addition to working metaphorically as a repository for Laura's trauma due to being connected to her rapes, it may literally be a conduit for Bob.

The ceiling fan is basically pure evil -- as streamlined and unassuming a symbol for it in Twin Peaks as creamed corn.


That's the scene where she grins like a maniac at the end, isn't it? That's a creepy scene.

To be honest I'm surprised Sarah still lives in that house!
"The stories that I wanna tell you about... "
User avatar
referendum
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:29 am

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:08 am

That's what happened to me with the Jacoby-Audrey-Roadhouse combo.


I was thinking about this re-use of Jacoby. I have said this before elsewhere, but I think Lynch has taken alot from music editing, with all the albums he has made over the last ten years. In a song you would not think twice about using the same material as a '' bridge'' in two or three different places in a song, before you '' drop '' into another verse ( he drops into the Audrey scene as a sharp cut from the '' ninth circle of hell'' line). So I think here ( and elsewhere) he has just used a common music edit technique to edit video.

also perhaps this letting scenes play out or stretch out over time, so that the viewer has time to sit with them and ' get into them' over a period of at least five minutes, and to notice details, is imported or at least inflected by his experience making what are usually quite repetitive groove based music tracks, essentially loops with something happening over the top. As someone remarks above, it is about a special sort of ATTENTION or feeling that you would not get with a conventionally played or edited scene. I think this sort of way of editing is happening in the Audrey scene. It is edited for tempo and feel and texture. Visually the frame is crammed and lush,but the people are totally static, like one of Lynch's reverbed 50's guitar chords suspended in space. I think this scene is ten minutes long to give it time to RESONATE and to establish it's own peculiar rhythm. It develops gradually in an organic kind of way and there are quite a few little repetitions inside it ( i'm tired, l'm tired, etc) along the way. The (phone) silences at the end are played almost like a fade-out or tail-out from what went before, the scene gradually goes down to nothing, just a wordless loaded stare. Abit like leaving the end note of a track sound until it dies completely away, perhaps, if i am to pursue this possibly dodgy analogy?

I also think it matters to wait and see what comes after this ( eg the random roadhouse chat ----> whatever happens at the start ep 13) before deciding whether the Audrey scene works or not in terms of pacing. We don't know where it is going to next, yet. Reading people's comments on here ( esp. deep thought) has made me want to watch it again.
Last edited by referendum on Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
''let's not overthink this opportunity''
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2895
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:23 am

Cooperscoffeecup wrote:It's been bugging me since I first watched it. The actor that plays Chrisko (keep your blood) does anyone know anything about him? He looks familiar. Was he captured in the spoiler thread maybe?


Yep! The scene was shot 9/19/15.
User avatar
p-air
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:36 am
Location: Philadelphia

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby p-air » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:30 am

Billy (Zane) did disappear just before Audrey entered her coma.
KyleRickards
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby KyleRickards » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:41 am

boske wrote:
crazyscottishguy wrote:Part 12 reminded me A LOT of Part 6.

I hope next week things go BOOM!


Me too, have had the very same feeling.


I was pondering the beginning/middle/end structure of the series, so we're about to embark on the home run. I think it will be a non stop race to the end now.

Although I could be wrong!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
KyleRickards
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 2:39 am

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby KyleRickards » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:42 am

kuprin82 wrote:My art


Very cool


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
User avatar
AgentEcho
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:57 am

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby AgentEcho » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:12 am

boske wrote:
AgentEcho wrote:Oh my Lynch is having so much fun screwing with people's expectations. All this build up to Audrey, with the earlier scenes with Frank and Ben almost tantalizingly dancing around naming Richard's mother, not to mention all the buildup for leaving her off the screen, then she abruptly appears in a surely intentionally jarring smash cut mid pan. We learn she's in a loveless marriage to a dwarf and is having an affair with a missing man named Billy, and there's a long extended conversation where a bunch of names were dropped, none of which were Richard, while Audrey impatiently waits for some information she never receives. If you place Audrey in the role of the audience impatient with all of this it is truly comedy gold.


Yes, he is clearly after our Garmonbozia. :-D Cole and Albert scene too was about us, the viewers, placed in the role of Albert, thinking "wtf, just get her out of here".

So the key to it is to know that we are being trolled when these scenes are unfolding and raise your guard accordingly. L&F are capable of producing great material (for me those were episode 8, Naido/Purple World, etc., heck even parts of this episode e.g. Sarah, Ben). Why they chose this route for the show in general is puzzling and there better be some grand explanation/resolution. Otherwise this will all be such a missed opportunity. I mean, at this point at 2/3 in, why wake Dougie up at all? What's the point?

I was about to give up after part 6, but part 8 kept me in. I will watch until the end and then pass the final judgement, but at this point, in spite of several flashes of brilliance, the season overall is on track to a failure.


"Failure" is a subjective thing. Personally I think the season has been great and I'm anticipating a great end. But I've been there, where I haven't been in sync with a show. While I never tried to declare those shows an objective failure or anything like that, I have stopped watching when I've been a lot further along than one could possibly be with Twin Peaks even if you include the first two seasons and FWWM. I've never regretted it.
User avatar
Panapaok
Posts: 1001
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:07 am

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Panapaok » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:26 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Cooperscoffeecup wrote:It's been bugging me since I first watched it. The actor that plays Chrisko (keep your blood) does anyone know anything about him? He looks familiar. Was he captured in the spoiler thread maybe?


Yep! The scene was shot 9/19/15.
Attachments
0LsGhv7.png
0LsGhv7.png (898.9 KiB) Viewed 4467 times
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
User avatar
Meaxylon
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:31 am

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Meaxylon » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:42 am

kuprin82 wrote:My art


Very cool, love the inclusion of Jumping Man.
I'm starting to warm up to Diane, I really enjoyed her in this part and I loved the way she say's Let's Rock.
User avatar
Deep Thought
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:05 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:48 am

Novalis wrote:The scene certainly follows dream logic, with the paralysis and frustrated efficiency of every attempted action or argument, but I don't think the scene has to literally take place in a dream for it to work according to this dream logic.


From my POV this is true, because the entire series takes place in a dream - a TV show. The question of whether a given scene is real or a dream is moot. The question is, instead, what does a given scene elicit emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually, and how close do these aspects come to capturing some facet of a character's nature truthfully? Was Bobby's scene at the diner a dream? I'd argue the same dream logic dictated the flow of each scene, and I'd also argue that is not necessarily helpful to assign it to either "dream" or "reality," especially if the scene is never referenced again by other characters. The hit and run, I think we can all agree, is a peg that the plot can hang on. Not so much many other scenes, and I watch it without trying to pigeon hole each scene into a box with a clear explanation. We may find later a clear intent for a scene, we may not, but hopefully with a scene like Audrey's, any intent won't change what the scene tells us about her character, just about how it fits into the plot. (Plot to me is the most contrived part of a good story).
There's your roast beef and cheese.
User avatar
boske
Posts: 529
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:15 am

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:56 am

AgentEcho wrote:
boske wrote:
AgentEcho wrote:Oh my Lynch is having so much fun screwing with people's expectations. All this build up to Audrey, with the earlier scenes with Frank and Ben almost tantalizingly dancing around naming Richard's mother, not to mention all the buildup for leaving her off the screen, then she abruptly appears in a surely intentionally jarring smash cut mid pan. We learn she's in a loveless marriage to a dwarf and is having an affair with a missing man named Billy, and there's a long extended conversation where a bunch of names were dropped, none of which were Richard, while Audrey impatiently waits for some information she never receives. If you place Audrey in the role of the audience impatient with all of this it is truly comedy gold.


Yes, he is clearly after our Garmonbozia. :-D Cole and Albert scene too was about us, the viewers, placed in the role of Albert, thinking "wtf, just get her out of here".

So the key to it is to know that we are being trolled when these scenes are unfolding and raise your guard accordingly. L&F are capable of producing great material (for me those were episode 8, Naido/Purple World, etc., heck even parts of this episode e.g. Sarah, Ben). Why they chose this route for the show in general is puzzling and there better be some grand explanation/resolution. Otherwise this will all be such a missed opportunity. I mean, at this point at 2/3 in, why wake Dougie up at all? What's the point?

I was about to give up after part 6, but part 8 kept me in. I will watch until the end and then pass the final judgement, but at this point, in spite of several flashes of brilliance, the season overall is on track to a failure.


"Failure" is a subjective thing. Personally I think the season has been great and I'm anticipating a great end. But I've been there, where I haven't been in sync with a show. While I never tried to declare those shows an objective failure or anything like that, I have stopped watching when I've been a lot further along than one could possibly be with Twin Peaks even if you include the first two seasons and FWWM. I've never regretted it.


Agree on the issue of subjectivity.

I still hold hope but we are running out of time. My main issue is with the Dougie story line. It has started in episode 3 and here we are 9 parts later, half of the show's total running time (!), and he has not tangibly moved an inch from where we initially saw him. When all is said and done and the final curtain falls on the Return, my bet is that most people will point to this and say that too much time was spent on essentially nothing. I get that the town and its world have almost lost their soul and are on a total descent into darkness, I anticipated that, but the way Dougie has been treated does not make any sense. I hope I am proven wrong in the end.
User avatar
krishnanspace
Posts: 1030
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:15 am

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby krishnanspace » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:23 am

Wasn't it said in TSHOTP that Audrey is in coma and has some facial scars?
User avatar
Nighthawk
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:49 am

Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Nighthawk » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:24 am

Deep Thought wrote:
AudreyHorne wrote:<<<Cut out the post to save space>>>


Great post. I'm a proponent of the Audrey in the lodge theory, and your observations really back it up. The paneling/door is a dead giveaway, imo. Love the TS Eliot connection too. I knew I didn't need to freeze frame that bookshelf myself. Good work!


There are indeed similarities in the door pattern and the stairwell to the glimpses of the Lodge we have seen so far. Audrey's frustrating conversation with her "husband" also has a dreamlike quality where attempts to complete some simple tasks are continually frustrated by some tangential events that keep coming up. It's interesting that this seems to be such a common experience of human dreams so that almost everyone can relate.

Return to “Parts Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests