Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

[Deep Thought]

Yeah, but I lean towards the coma theory since it's already been seeded in show.

Agreed. I'm pro-coma. Just pointing out that Lynch historically illuminates mental states, not just dreams and such.

[AgentEcho]

I liked this episode, because it was all about Twin Peaks and the FBI case. I do think its such a slow crawl to get to the destination it better worth it. We are down to what I think is the last 6 hours of Twin Peaks without a Dale Copper insight. That is just nuts. We finally get Audrey, because all of her son's sins have come to light. I am not sure, I buy the Audrey is not in the real world. Seems a bit like fans not seeing a tree is just a tree.

If it was announced that The Return was only six episodes long, would you still be upset about the lack of Dale with all his faculties? If it was announced the would be just one feature length sequel to Twin Peaks would you be upset? If we end up with say, four episodes with a fully realized Cooper, isn't that still four more episodes that anyone thought we would get before the return was announced? It might be that whatever we get with the Whole Dale is greatly enchanted by the journey it took for him to get back.

[Fireboob]

A lot of people moaning on here about this episode, which i find strange. I thought the episode was as exceptional as the previous 11. Im not a historic twin peaks fan. I only watched series 1 and 2 last year and tbh honest its ok. What grabbed my interest is the super natural sise of things , enough to keep my interest until the end of season 2. I can honestly say that Twin Peaks the return is imo the best series i have ever watched. It far outstips the original 2 seasons anyone who thinks otherwise i think may be deluded or high on nostalgia.

This series has made me want to delve deeper into twin peaks the previous 2 didnt have that effect on me.

[Pyaan123]

Think of it this way: the original series has a massive fan-base. After the original run, a movie is being made. Everyone get's excited. David Lynch however doesn't go back to the feeling of the series (quirky, loveble etc). Instead goes to a prequel with a much darker tone.

Now all these years later, David Lynch (and Mark Frost) return. Everybody is hoping for the loveable Twin Peaks vibe. The happy go lucky approach from Dale Cooper etc. But that will never happen as David Lynch will never go back to that vibe.

This season will be exactly what it is. A beast on its own, where David Lynch tells a story he wanted to tell for years.

[Troubbble]

Audrey's scene was no dream.

We have an ongoing tendency to come up with elaborate theories like this, only to see them smashed to bits very quickly. The same thing is going to happen next week with this idea. (Remember, the simplest explanation is usually the right one, even with this show!)

Beyond the fact that the Audrey scene ties directly into events we've already seen happen in Twin Peaks, I think it's important to remember that Sherilyn Fenn's part was always small--and it became smaller still once she held out in negotiations. It is HIGHLY unlikely the show will be focusing on her to the extent it'd need to in order to reveal the type of coma/dreamscape scenario everyone's theorizing about. I am 99% confident that the scene should be taken at face value, and think there was plenty to discuss about it without needing to speculate so wildly.

These were my main takeaways:

A) Audrey's not doing well.
B) She's in an unhappy marriage of convenience.
C) Her husband is intent on staying married for reasons other than mutual love and respect.
D) She was sleeping with a ne'er-do-well in town - and one we're reasonably certain has been murdered (by Richard!)
E) Assuming he WAS murdered, Audrey had a prophetic dream about this beforehand or immediately after.
F) Her lover was seemingly involved with Richard and Red's criminal misadventures - though she may not know that.
G) She is apparently less "tuned in" to what's up with Richard than the rest of the family.

That final bit seems to be leading a lot of you to conclude she is not Richard's mother... I disagree completely, but feel that one way or another, this question is the most important one prompted by the scene.

For me, the fact that she doesn't mention him or seem to know what's going on points more to the fact that she IS his mother.

It fits perfectly that Audrey is too involved with her trailer trash boyfriend to realize her son is on a rampage. Not only does it parallel Shelly's storyline, in which she is too involved with her own boyfriend to realize that *he's* the one supplying drugs to her daughter and son-in-law -- it also provides further explanation for Richard's condition beyond the popular theory that the Doppelganger fathered him.

We learned only a few minutes earlier that Richard "never had a father" - and though we've correctly identified that this could be interpreted various ways, it almost doesn't matter what the truth is. At the end of the day, children with absent fathers tend to have issues! Throw in a mother who was traumatized by a near-death experience and has possibly lost her marbles? You don't need to be a demon seed to go bad with that type of upbringing.

[Rhodes]

The original run had some, in my view pretty embarrassing story lines from time to time, we all know what those are. But as poor as they were they were still WAY more entertaining than this. Way less dull, boring, cold, lifeless and slow.

Although this might have been the weakest episode so far of The Return, in my opinion it would have definitely been one of the very top episodes of the original run. Even the socalled strong story lines of the original show were mostly worse than than what we saw last sunday.

[Ragnell]

For me, the fact that she doesn't mention him or seem to know what's going on points more to the fact that she IS his mother.

It fits perfectly that Audrey is too involved with her trailer trash boyfriend to realize her son is on a rampage. Not only does it parallel Shelly's storyline, in which she is too involved with her own boyfriend to realize that *he's* the one supplying drugs to her daughter and son-in-law -- it also provides further explanation for Richard's condition beyond the popular theory that the Doppelganger fathered him.

We learned only a few minutes earlier that Richard "never had a father" - and though we've correctly identified that this could be interpreted various ways, it almost doesn't matter what the truth is. At the end of the day, children with absent fathers tend to have issues! Throw in a mother who was traumatized by a near-death experience and has possibly lost her marbles? You don't need to be a demon seed to go bad with that type of upbringing.

Y'know, I did have a wild thought while watching that that Audrey's coma had been longer than just a few days... maybe a few years, where she actually had the baby and by the time she woke up he was already so terrible no one could bring themselves to tell her.

AUDREY: Why is there a little boy out there throwing rocks at bunnies?
BEN: He's uh...
AUDREY: He just lit a firecracker under one of them!
BEN: He's.. Johnny's son. Very complicated. Mother died.

Okay, probably not.

[Troubbble]

The original run had some, in my view pretty embarrassing story lines from time to time, we all know what those are. But as poor as they were they were still WAY more entertaining than this. Way less dull, boring, cold, lifeless and slow.

Although this might have been the weakest episode so far of The Return, in my opinion it would have definitely been one of the very top episodes of the original run. Even the socalled strong story lines of the original show were mostly worse than than what we saw last sunday.

Seconded! Big time.

I loved the original show and always will, but it has never seemed so problematic as it did to me during my recent rewatch before The Return. Most of the more superfluous storylines get quite boring, and there are many episodes which would've been borderline unwatchable if not for some fan-pleasing interactions involving Dale, Harry, Gordon, Albert, Andy and Lucy, etc.

It's way too easy to look at the original run with rose-colored glasses, when in actuality, the few episodes directed by David were FAR AND AWAY the highlights... I'm glad they're trying to create something of substance here, when it would've been much easier to rehash that old Twin Peaks "vibe."

Part 12 may very well be the weakest part of The Return, viewed as a standalone - but even still, I find it far more exciting than a mediocre episode from the original run. (We also know better by now than to evaluate these parts individually, but I've long ago given up on trying to convince people of that.)

[Troubbble]

For me, the fact that she doesn't mention him or seem to know what's going on points more to the fact that she IS his mother.

It fits perfectly that Audrey is too involved with her trailer trash boyfriend to realize her son is on a rampage. Not only does it parallel Shelly's storyline, in which she is too involved with her own boyfriend to realize that *he's* the one supplying drugs to her daughter and son-in-law -- it also provides further explanation for Richard's condition beyond the popular theory that the Doppelganger fathered him.

We learned only a few minutes earlier that Richard "never had a father" - and though we've correctly identified that this could be interpreted various ways, it almost doesn't matter what the truth is. At the end of the day, children with absent fathers tend to have issues! Throw in a mother who was traumatized by a near-death experience and has possibly lost her marbles? You don't need to be a demon seed to go bad with that type of upbringing.

Y'know, I did have a wild thought while watching that that Audrey's coma had been longer than just a few days... maybe a few years, where she actually had the baby and by the time she woke up he was already so terrible no one could bring themselves to tell her.

I don't think that's a wild thought at all! (Well, the idea that her coma lasted longer than expected, anyway. I think she knows Richard is hers.)

Imagine you woke up from a coma to find yourself the single mother of a kindergartner with extreme behavioral issues, and no father in the picture. I'd crawl back in bed, I think...

This possibility dovetails perfectly with my other thoughts about the Audrey scene and what it suggests. I'm convinced she's his mother, but for whatever reason, I think it's clear she wasn't a great or involved one.

[Ragnell]

For me, the fact that she doesn't mention him or seem to know what's going on points more to the fact that she IS his mother.

It fits perfectly that Audrey is too involved with her trailer trash boyfriend to realize her son is on a rampage. Not only does it parallel Shelly's storyline, in which she is too involved with her own boyfriend to realize that *he's* the one supplying drugs to her daughter and son-in-law -- it also provides further explanation for Richard's condition beyond the popular theory that the Doppelganger fathered him.

We learned only a few minutes earlier that Richard "never had a father" - and though we've correctly identified that this could be interpreted various ways, it almost doesn't matter what the truth is. At the end of the day, children with absent fathers tend to have issues! Throw in a mother who was traumatized by a near-death experience and has possibly lost her marbles? You don't need to be a demon seed to go bad with that type of upbringing.

Y'know, I did have a wild thought while watching that that Audrey's coma had been longer than just a few days... maybe a few years, where she actually had the baby and by the time she woke up he was already so terrible no one could bring themselves to tell her.

I don't think that's a wild thought at all! (Well, the idea that her coma lasted longer than expected, anyway. I think she knows Richard is hers.)

Imagine you woke up from a coma to find yourself the single mother of a kindergartner with extreme behavioral issues, and no father in the picture. I'd crawl back in bed, I think...

This possibility dovetails perfectly with my other thoughts about the Audrey scene and what it suggests. I'm convinced she's his mother, but for whatever reason, I think it's clear she wasn't a great or involved one.

It's bone-chilling. And its Twin Peaks. She may well be the mother of the antichrist here.

Yeah, she probably wasn't a great mother, but I am reluctant to allow any blame for Richard on Audrey even if we find out she dumped him on a nanny and flew to Reno every weekend. The Mitchem Brothers were from an orphanage and while they can still be violent, they have a mercy streak. Ben was wicked and Sylvia was always bitter and wrapped in her own stuff, but Audrey wasn't cruel. Sonny Jim is neglected, between his father's condition and his mother's preoccupation with dealing with his father's condition, but he's still very sweet. Laura was abused but she had kindness in her and resisted possession. A good father can save someone from taking the wrong path ike Garland did for Bobby, but I don't think no father and an absent mother are what lead to Richard Horne. I think Richard Horne is some sort of perfect storm of selfishness and sadism that may not be entirely attributable to nurture.

Richard Horne comes from being completely cruel and selfish, to a point that we haven't seen from ANY human villain I can think of. Even the Renaults gave a damn about each other. Ben's statement about Richard never being quite right indicates he's been cruel since he was a child, and that cruel streak is what makes him what he is. If Audrey was unable to bond with her son, I suspect her son's nature did have something to do with that. I man, I hate the idea of going all Little Nicky on this, and I think children do act out and need guidance. But Richard seems like the sort of guy who was torturing cats when he was a kid.

If it had been mainly due to Audrey's circumstances and being weirded out with having a child and no partner to help with him, and Richard had an ounce of compassion in his nature, he'd react to his mother's distance with not only acting out but also with sadness and an attempt to find community elsewhere, rather than demeaning and destroying every single person in his path. This character is too far into cruelty and viciousness for his misery to be anyone's fault but his own.

[dontlooknow]

I rather liked this episode. As pointed out several times before, the scenes with Sarah Palmer were great. Cole's hooker taking forever to leave the room was enjoyable too.

I began to have doubts during the Audrey scene, but the end made me laugh in a yeah-fuck-you-too-mr.-director-way.

Jacoby was a filler and weak.

And yes: Coordinates plus 2?? Wtf.

[Agent Earle]

I can honestly say that Twin Peaks the return is imo the best series i have ever watched. It far outstips the original 2 seasons anyone who thinks otherwise i think may be deluded or high on nostalgia.

This series has made me want to delve deeper into twin peaks the previous 2 didnt have that effect on me.

Hey, that's just us, the dimwitted coffee, pie & doughnut lunatics with mad penchant for gorging on soaps. But what can I say, live and let live and all that.

[lotjx2]

I get that this is Lynch's story and its his way or the highway. Yet, that doesn't mean everything is rainbows and unicorns. Honestly, I have liked 80% of this show. Tonight is one of the better episodes of the series as it dealt primary with the FBI and Twin Peaks. It got things getting on the right track like the FBI wondering what is in Vegas, the key going to Sheriff Truman and the return of Audrey. I even like the Sarah Palmer scenes as we see a woman who is completely wrecked by her experiences with her family even with that she in her own way is trying to help the kids in the convenience store since I believe its the store where the miner block lodge members are going to come through. That was great stuff. What is not great is the whole Who the hell were those kids at the bar. Like why? We could have moved another piece on the table instead we are adding stuff that seems a bit stupid. I guess I have to wait and see if it means anything maybe Richard or Evil Copper tried to run that dude off the road. Maybe. I am just getting to the point we should be removing pieces from the board instead of adding them.

[wxray]

I am just getting to the point we should be removing pieces from the board instead of adding them.

We have more ahead. "Linda" (one of the birds)

[nonemoreblack]

I don't really like the idea of Audrey's story being like Shelly's. I don't think it goes with the character we saw at the end of S2. I think there's more interesting directions to show how Audrey's life has gone downhill.

Someone on reddit made the interesting point that the scene felt stuck in time. They weren't using cellphones, and Charlie wasn't using a computer.

In regards to the episode as a whole, it was the first one this season I didn't enjoy. I get that Lynch is all about patience, but that shouldn't mean he should be completely left off the hook when he overdoes it.