Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Troubbble
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:01 am

Is Billy NOT confirmed to be the guy Andy met with? If he was credited as "Farmer," I forgot.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:01 am

Dupe post!
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:17 am

Soolsma wrote:Come to think of it, it's actually quite funny how people now feel such a huge disconnect with the once very familiar Audrey character that it immediately sends them thinking in elaborate schemes to explain what's going on. (I've heard people say it's a film set too) While, well I don't know about you people, but as a 27 year old I am already feeling quite a disconnect from my teenage self. My behavior was very different, and even more so the girls I had flings with. I can only try imagine how I'll look upon my teen years when I'm in my late forties.

I know, I know, there are some definite oddities at play there. However, if the scene wouldn't revolve around such an iconic character now seemingly changed so much, wouldn't we just regard those oddities as just.. oddities, which TP always has an abundance of?


True. Whatever the truth is, dream or reality, the scene seems DESIGNED to create a disconnect. Wide shot. No wsrmth between the characters. Dialogue in which Audrey alienates her husband. A slew of names dropped we don't have faces or context for. Closed doors. A vague phone conversation. No answers.

Adds to the oddness. We started out disconnected from Twin Peaks as they introed the main characters. Slowly they brought us into their lives. We just saw relationships verified in the last few eps. The Vegas characters have been bonding with Coop. This part opens with Albert and Gordon warmly welcoming Tammy to their club. The aside in Gordon's room even shows him with a guest rather than alone. Carl taking care of his tenant. Dougie bonding with Sonny. Jerry leaving the woods for a meadow, hopefully going back to civilization. Chantel and Hutch working as a darkly humorous team, with a glimpse at the Warden's family as he dies. (He reaches for home... and his son runs out to find him.) So much warmth between Ben and Frank and Beverly. Harry's friendship with Dale honored. Ben reminiscing about his Dad. Nadine's crush on Dr Jacoby and hell, even Jacoby's first lines asking his listeners what's on their minds. Like a friend. This episode was filled with love and bonding an humanity until we get to Audrey.

Everyone else us past the intro stage, past the distance stage, at the poimt where the audience is getting to know them. Everyone is FAMILY by Part 12 but Audrey is a stranger. With a stranger. Talking about strangers.

Audrey is by some circumstance cut off from ALL of the love in the show. And its pure hell.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:25 am

Audrey Horne wrote:I know, I know I'm the die hard Audrey fan ... But now able to watch and watch, this scene is fantastic.

And I'm shocked people are taking it so literally.

I'm with you, except, give those of us a break who did initially take it literally. Maybe I was sleepy. Maybe I expected something else. Maybe I needed some Candie.

I was a "literal" viewer and was pissed at the introduction and the episode. I gave my thoughts here earlier. It gave me nightmares. But I've come around on second viewing and thought. Don't be surprised if a good chunk of the viewers just left after this episode. In retrospect, this scene may be the most brilliant character re-introduction in the history of TV. But very few may care to watch.

Let's call this "Audrey's Purgatory". I think we can all agree something is messed up, whether it is literal, or figurative (coma, therapy, dream, thoughts, etc.). And even if it is literal, I'm now OK with this now that I'm over the shock.

My wife noticed something about Audrey's Purgatory I didn't pick up on. HOMEWORK. Audrey used the term "homework" when referring to Charlie's paperwork. That's not a completely crazy use of the term for an adult, but it is much more used (in America, at least) when referring to a student doing the work they are assigned to complete at home. Last we saw Audrey, she was still in school. This along with no computers or electronics helps support the theory this is being imagined in a pre-bank explosion time.

The other thing I picked up on the scene was it was basically the Mother Of All Soap Opera Scenes. In the soaps, due to the schedule and budget, much of the story is exposition between non-moving characters like this. Recall Bill Hastings and wife too. However, this 10+ minute scene was way overboard for a soap opera scene. Yet another Lynchism.

And I think that's what was so upsetting. The scene looked familiar to casual viewers who are not obsessed techniques of film-making. So we settled in to watch with certain preconceived notions. And the, as Lynch is wont to do, he turns everything upside down.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby nonemoreblack » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:44 am

Voided wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Cappy wrote:
Yeah, agreed. Audrey and Shelly are such distinct, unique characters. I'd hate for them to have such similar stories.


How are the two situations similar? Leo was an abusive alpha male; Charlie is a whiny sleepy "milquetoast." Sure, they're both terrible marriages, but whereas Shelly was a prisoner, Audrey/Charlie feels like a marriage of convenience where Audrey is the dominant partner and could end the "contract" if she wanted to.


The Audrey scene actually reminds me of Beverly's home life. She too, has an incapacitated husband who is possessive and somehow dominating. There is an ongoing theme throughout the series of various mental/physical abuses by males on their female partners. All the contractual talk is reminiscent of Inland Empire.


Great comparison!
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:45 am

Jasper wrote:OK, everybody, we need to get to the bottom of this Audrey business, so I have taken this opportunity to create a (not at all frivolous) poll. Go there and vote your mind!:

:arrow: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3730



If you voted in the poll, your vote probably got erased due to a technical screw up. (I added a new option, and it was my distinct displeasure to find that this resulted in all of the votes being erased.)

If you voted, kindly re-enter your vote.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:46 am

Regarding "Mulholland Drive", it's an amazing film but there are a few weaker, goofy parts in it in my opinion, subplots that divert and distract from the main narrative, given that it was originally being set up as a pilot, even though it does come together brilliantly in the end. And I think there's a lot more of these elements in the new series of "Twin Peaks", given the longer running time - a lot of the stuff in Vegas, for example.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:51 am

i rewatched the episode yesterday night, this time with headphones, cranked up the volume and watched it on my laptop held Close to my face instead of on the TV screen.. both of Sarah's scenes literally gave me chills all over the body, the way it transform from a regular but sad scene of Sarah shopping her poisons of choice into confusion and horror. Zabriskie is absolutely brilliant at playing both sweet characters and really frightening, almost possessed. Lynch has used her acting style and looks to great effect in "Inland Empire", "Twin Peaks" and "Wild at Heart" and i really hope she will get a lot more screen time.

the scene with Hawk walking up to the steps to the iconic Palmer house while a light rain pouring down in a wide shot followed by the close-up of the creepy dialouge (with the added horrors of the association we make to the spinning fan) is one of my favorite scenes from The Return so far. my bet is that it's the young boy from the grocery store that's fighting for his life in the kitchen... It's a bad fucking story isn't it Hawk?

the way Lynch bounces off the horrors of the World with absurd humor was almost taken to its extreme with the shooting of the Warden.. the first time I watched it I felt a lump in my throat when the Young son ran down the steps to his dead father... the second time I couldn't help but laugh out loud from the absurdness of cutting from that to the "Next stop Wendy's" line!!! same thing with the scene with Gordon and that french girl.. it's so fucking weird that I can't help but laugh at it, just look at the glowing interest and joy in Gordon's face there.. and the way he puts his hand on Albert's shoulder saying "I really worry about you some times Albert". what i take from that is that he wishes Albert would just let go of control and enjoy the small things in life. this is really a message about this series as a whole... we as an audience is wanting control and order, we want our story to progress the way we are used to, etc.

could it be that the Roadhouse scenes from episodes 6 and episodes 12 are just interludes to give us a glimpse of some of the regular people living in Twin Peaks, a way to let us soak in the atmosphere of the town- like overhearing a conversation between two people in a café sitting next to you. you can't help but be intrigued and listen sometimes but you have no context for what or who they are talking about and your life will probably never cross paths with these people again. I wouldn't be suprised if we never see those people again.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:57 am

i also got to give it up to that new Badalamenti piece that accompanies Tammy's introduction into the Blue Rose fold (although i think the handling of that was hamfisted). Badalamenti's compositios have been outstanding this season.. how many of them have there been by now? 4? 5? 6?
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhodes » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:18 am

I didn't hate the episode after first view, but I did think it was the worst so far.

Now, after reading al these (convincing) theories about Diane, Sarah and Audrey, I am inclined to think it was a brilliant episode. And I am incredibly hyped for what's to come.

The Return has been very enjoyable and interesting so far. But I have the feeling that my experiences so far are nothing compared to what I'll experience when all the pieces start falling together. All of these episodes will be so much better (Is that even possible? Yes, I think so) when we watch them again in a couple of months!

Feeling very, very confident and excited!

(However, I would be a bit dissapointed if especially the Audrey scene appears to have a straightforward meaning after all).
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby rocketsan22 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:25 am

sewhite2000 wrote:Well, as I say, you are in the vast, overwhelming majority on this opinion.

It also occurs to me 25 years is an eternity to let someone remain in a coma. Ben has an endless supply of money, I suppose, but one might think "the plug would have pulled" by this time if there seemed to be no chance of Audrey ever reviving.


Ben and Sylvia are at odds, right?

When I was a kid, my great aunt climbed up on a chair to get a hat box down as she got dressed to go to a singles dance. She lost her balance, fell off the chair and hit her head. She remained in a coma for 18 years as my aunt and her brother fought to keep her alive or pull the plug. She ended up dying in the hospital of causes related to her age. So long coma times are not uncommon.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:26 am

Troubbble wrote:Is Billy NOT confirmed to be the guy Andy met with? If he was credited as "Farmer," I forgot.

He was credited as "Farmer", which is why I'm surprised that a lot of people here refer to him as "Billy" as if it was confirmed.


wxray wrote:My wife noticed something about Audrey's Purgatory I didn't pick up on. HOMEWORK. Audrey used the term "homework" when referring to Charlie's paperwork. That's not a completely crazy use of the term for an adult, but it is much more used (in America, at least) when referring to a student doing the work they are assigned to complete at home. Last we saw Audrey, she was still in school. This along with no computers or electronics helps support the theory this is being imagined in a pre-bank explosion time.


I noticed the word "homework" and thought at first they were talking about their child as in "If you were missing, would you want your son to just do his homework without caring about you?". But then she said she was fucking Billy and I discarded the idea because I don't think Audrey was saying she was sleeping with her son. I thought something about the word was off but I had no explanation for it. Your interpretation makes sense, it could be a clue that there's something wrong with this reality, that her mind is still in the early 90's and she's using words she's accustomed to.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Obi-Wan McCartney » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:49 am

Is it at all possible that that Richard is not Audrey's son, but in fact the son of Richard Horne's OTHER DAUGHTER!? Farfetched i know given that his name is horn and not Hayward, and that he refers to Ben's wife as Grandma too, but still something to consider?
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Rhodes » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:54 am

Fireboob wrote:A lot of people moaning on here about this episode, which i find strange. I thought the episode was as exceptional as the previous 11. Im not a historic twin peaks fan. I only watched series 1 and 2 last year and tbh honest its ok. What grabbed my interest is the super natural sise of things , enough to keep my interest until the end of season 2. I can honestly say that Twin Peaks the return is imo the best series i have ever watched. It far outstips the original 2 seasons anyone who thinks otherwise i think may be deluded or high on nostalgia.


Hear hear.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby BGate » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:56 am

"Audrey's in a coma" is the new "Vegas is another timeline/dimension/dream". I'd suggest making your peace with taking that Audrey scene at 100% face value (as much as anything can be taken at face value in Lynch).

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