Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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Metamorphia
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Metamorphia »

Rhodes wrote:I didn't hate the Audrey scene to begin with.

But if this is indeed some kind of Mulholland Drive twist, and she appears to be in a coma after all, this could turn out to be one of the most brilliant aspects of The Return.

The potential of this scene is huge. And again a reminder that it is basically nonsensical to comment or grade an individual episode without knowing the rest of the show/movie.
I need to revisit the episode I think in light of all the recent theories on Audrey.

I took it at first as just being an intentionally jumbled/nonsensical scene designed really to intentionally frustrate. Lynch has done things like that before and I've always enjoyed it but I felt really disproportionately angered by the tedium of the Audrey/Charlie scene (even if the 'patience is a virtue' thing is a key theme throughout the series), but hey, maybe I really am wrong about it. I think viewing this episode in context of the last is what has caused such an online revolt about it.
Rik Renault
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Rik Renault »

The score for the Tammy Blue Rose induction sounded a lot like the score at the end of Mulholland Dr. to me with the images of Betty/Rita superimposed over the cityscape. Definitely had an uplifting and moving feel to it to me and it felt like it was supposed to stand in stark contrast to Diane's scoreless 'induction' into the Blue Rose Taskforce. Some people on here have seemed to suggest a mistrust of Tammy by Gordon and Albert but I really think that judgment might be obscured by their own preconceptions of Chrysta Bell.

On the subject of 'Blue Rose', I heard a segment on BBC Radio 4's Today Programme about colours in nature – which I hadn't posted on here because I thought it would be something that everybody was already aware of – talking about the lack of 'blues' in nature due to the chemical make-up of organic pigmentation. It said scientists had tried (and failed) for years to manufacture a blue rose, and ultimately only seemed to manage one which was really more mauve/purple than blue. Anyway I just thought this idea of things occurring 'outside of nature' might be interesting if people didn't already know.

Mulholland Dr final scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzRgkD4l7Xs
(Song plays around 3:00 mark)
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

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Audrey Horne wrote:I know, I know I'm the die hard Audrey fan ... But now able to watch and watch, this scene is fantastic.
While I'm still not fully committed to the coma theory, it's certainly an intriguing interpretation. The "overwritten" quality of the scene fits with Audrey's Scarlet Letter-citing nature, the soapiness (by far the most soap opera-style scene we've gotten IMO) would fit with Audrey's 1989-era pop culture sensibility. The main strike against this theory, for me, is that L/F simply haven't been playing these types of games to date. While completely unpredictable in many respects, the storytelling has been shockingly transparent and straightforward, often being guilty of overexplaining IMO.

I'm curious, Audrey -- if the scene ends up taking place in the real world, completely at face value, how might that change your perspective? Would you be sad/angry at where Audrey has ended up?
claaa7 wrote:could it be that the Roadhouse scenes from episodes 6 and episodes 12 are just interludes to give us a glimpse of some of the regular people living in Twin Peaks, a way to let us soak in the atmosphere of the town- like overhearing a conversation between two people in a café sitting next to you. you can't help but be intrigued and listen sometimes but you have no context for what or who they are talking about and your life will probably never cross paths with these people again. I wouldn't be suprised if we never see those people again.
Thank you! I'm so perplexed by the multitude of people who seem to believe that these scenes have no value unless we see these characters again or they tell us something about this "Sparkle" conspiracy that people keep coming back to. Why does every scene need to "tell" us something or have some plot significance? In an 18-hour movie, is there not time for some asides and detours? These are essentially little short films implanted in the narrative, and they're some of my favorite parts so far. We're getting a sense of the richness of the TP community, as opposed to just seeing the same 15 townies as in the original show. I adore the "slice of life" quality of these and don't expect them to have any more significance.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Rik Renault »

I don't think it's been posted on here but somebody on Reddit mentioned that the sand in the hourglass doesn't change throughout the Audrey/Charlie scene, so a potential 'stuck in time' clue there along with many others. I'm starting to be more and more persuaded by this idea, but as the above poster points out, it doesn't feel like the sort of thing L/F would do, or rather it doesn't feel like the way they would do this.

One very basic reading of Lynchian colour symbols though is that pink/red = dreams / obfuscation of truth and blue = truth being revealed; and with this in mind I can't help but over-read into the fact that Audrey puts on a bright red coat in the scene. Almost the reverse of Dern at the end of IE draping the blue gown over the red theatre seats.
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dustoff
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by dustoff »

dropkick23 wrote:
dustoff wrote:Is there a forum for people who actually like Twin Peaks: The Return?
After Sunday night there is a pretty loyal crowd on Reddit.
Given that the overall "score" of Sunday's episode is 5.8 (far lower than any other), and that the most-frequent one-word summaries of it include "boring," "slow," "filler," "disappointing," "meh," and "shit," I'm not so sure.
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musicaddict
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

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Rik Renault wrote:I don't think it's been posted on here but somebody on Reddit mentioned that the sand in the hourglass doesn't change throughout the Audrey/Charlie scene, so a potential 'stuck in time' clue there along with many others. I'm starting to be more and more persuaded by this idea, but as the above poster points out, it doesn't feel like the sort of thing L/F would do, or rather it doesn't feel like the way they would do this.

One very basic reading of Lynchian colour symbols though is that pink/red = dreams / obfuscation of truth and blue = truth being revealed; and with this in mind I can't help but over-read into the fact that Audrey puts on a bright red coat in the scene. Almost the reverse of Dern at the end of IE draping the blue gown over the red theatre seats.
The Rancho Rosa intro this episode was pink/red.
Rhodes
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Rhodes »

The tweet by David Dalstmachian: "Things will never be the same" is mostly seen as an unjustified hyping of episode 12.

But maybe he is right after all. Maybe the Audrey-scene is indeed the crucial scene of the entire show! The scene that changes everything and forces us to interpret everything we've seen so far in a different light.
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wxray
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by wxray »

Mr. Reindeer wrote: I'm curious, Audrey -- if the scene ends up taking place in the real world, completely at face value, how might that change your perspective? Would you be sad/angry at where Audrey has ended up?
Hell no! I'm still of the "coma/dream" camp, but I'll be perfectly satisfied with it being absolute reality.

I'm just happy we have something to look forward to... to see how this goes. I'm getting more and more into the "Lynch/Frost is brilliant" camp for introducing Audrey in this incredibly frustrating, awkward and unique way.

So, bring it on, whatever it is. However, everyone should probably take a breath. We may not see more about this story line for another episode or two.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Rik Renault »

musicaddict wrote:The Rancho Rosa intro this episode was pink/red.
When I rewatched this episode I thought something was different about that! I even asked my girlfriend: "were there always 3 red A's on that?"

I think more will be revealed to do with the Rancho Rosa inclusion in-universe too. There are too many connections with not only the RR diner, but the whole Ronnie Rocket story, that go deeper than a fun little easter egg that appears on a billboard in Las Vegas.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Rhodes wrote:The tweet by David Dalstmachian: "Things will never be the same" is mostly seen as an unjustified hyping of episode 12.

But maybe he is right after all. Maybe the Audrey-scene is indeed the crucial scene of the entire show! The scene that changes everything and forces us to interpret everything we've seen so far in a different light.
Why on earth would Dalstmachian have had any knowledge of Audrey's storyline, though? Even if we're assuming that Audrey's path intersects with Warrick's at some point (a huge assumption), how would Dalstmachian, of all people, know that Audrey would first appear in Part 12? Matthew Lillard has said he didn't know what Parts he would be in until the show aired (he was assuming he wouldn't be seen until Part 10-11 IIRC). So if Lillard didn't know what Parts he personally would appear in, I can't imagine that L/F would have tipped a day player like Dalstmachian off to the HUGE reveal of when Fenn would first appear.

I agree that the tweet was a really baffling move -- maybe he received a false tip from another cast/crew member that a certain scene he shot would be included in this Part? -- but I just can't believe that he has some sort of insider knowledge given the secrecy and unorthodox shooting/editing of ths thing.
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Dreamy Audrey
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Dreamy Audrey »

Rik Renault wrote:I don't think it's been posted on here but somebody on Reddit mentioned that the sand in the hourglass doesn't change throughout the Audrey/Charlie scene, so a potential 'stuck in time' clue there along with many others. I'm starting to be more and more persuaded by this idea, but as the above poster points out, it doesn't feel like the sort of thing L/F would do, or rather it doesn't feel like the way they would do this.
Yes, the sand didn't seem to change throughout the scene as if no time was passing at all (or time is passing so slowly that we cannot observe the change). The sand is almost run out and Charlie was talking about a deadline. I'm curious what the deadline is for.

Rik Renault wrote:
musicaddict wrote:The Rancho Rosa intro this episode was pink/red.
When I rewatched this episode I thought something was different about that! I even asked my girlfriend: "were there always 3 red A's on that?"

I think more will be revealed to do with the Rancho Rosa inclusion in-universe too. There are too many connections with not only the RR diner, but the whole Ronnie Rocket story, that go deeper than a fun little easter egg that appears on a billboard in Las Vegas.
The A's are always red except for Part 8 where the intro was black and white. However, this was the only episode beside Part 8 where the RR was in reversed colours (light RR letters on dark background instead of dark on light), which suggests something was up. Maybe it has to do with Sarah's warning ("Men are coming").
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Troubbble »

AudreyHorne wrote:
Troubbble wrote:Is Billy NOT confirmed to be the guy Andy met with? If he was credited as "Farmer," I forgot.
He was credited as "Farmer", which is why I'm surprised that a lot of people here refer to him as "Billy" as if it was confirmed.
I guess it was just confusion based on Riley Lynch's "Where's Billy?" moment, several weeks ago. I hereby retract any reference I've made to Billy in this thread! Haha.

Starting to think Lynch's intention with Audrey's first scene was mainly just to throw us off completely... Looking forward to seeing this fleshed out in a few more days.
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referendum
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

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One thing that i noticed about this ep ( i haven't rewatched it ) was a sense of storm clouds gathering. People have been talking about lynch trolling people letting scenes go on for too long, etc, but earlier in the series when this happened, the spades painting, or the roadhouse sweeping, these were moments of calm where you took a breather. Here, all the gaps were clotted with too many words, or too much extraneous information, or more music than usual, or the ' red room ' backwards sound effects. There was a sort of detail overload, and a deliberate awkwardness to alot of the scenes that has frustrated people. An idea that springs to mind is ' delayed gratification ' - '' the ability to forgo short-term reward in favor of a higher payoff in the future''. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification ). Seen in this way, the repetition of Jacoby rant ( + extra Nadine being excited ), the Lynch hotel room with woman ( the ludicrously slow hyper sexualised exit,see you in the bar later, the fussing by the door ), the Audrey telephone call, the Diane phone scene that the co-ordinates are in Twin Peaks, the 'what don't we know about Vegas? Cole/Albert scene, Roth and Leigh being ready to set off for their double Vegas hit, Sarah's outburst about things that were about to happen ( men are coming here, etc) and the ominous visit to her house where we are not allowed through the door, all add up to a sense of expectation that is never met.

There were a couple of grace notes, like the Truman/ Ben Horne scene and the Carl Rodd ' don't sell your blood' scene, but the rest of it was like a series of builds towards something we KNOW is going to happen ( return to TP, return of Coop to self, getting bad Coop and FBI to Twin Peaks, etc), we are impatient for it happen and to find out how it plays out, but...for now we have to wait until the time is right. And we even have a date for that to happen, the night of Saturday 01/02 october. And we are shown Dougie Coop playing / not playing catch still in all innocence on the morning of Sat 01 oct. What I got from this episode was a sense of imminence, the repeated delaying tactics deliberately winding up the tension before the inevitable showdown.

Of course, if fuck all happens next episode aswell, everything I wrote above will have proved to be wishful thinking :D
Last edited by referendum on Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Rhodes »

Mr. Reindeer wrote: Sure, they're both terrible marriages, but whereas Shelly was a prisoner, Audrey/Charlie feels like a marriage of convenience
Marriage of convenience --> convenience store?
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Post by Metamorphia »

dustoff wrote:
dropkick23 wrote:
dustoff wrote:Is there a forum for people who actually like Twin Peaks: The Return?
After Sunday night there is a pretty loyal crowd on Reddit.
Given that the overall "score" of Sunday's episode is 5.8 (far lower than any other), and that the most-frequent one-word summaries of it include "boring," "slow," "filler," "disappointing," "meh," and "shit," I'm not so sure.
Sunday night was the first time the subreddit seemed to actually turn on the show. Dissenting views were usually minimal and didn't make the 'hot' page, whereas the sub's front page was full of negativity about it after E12.

Although, like with some people on this forum, some have slightly turned round to it since.
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