Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

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Deep Thought
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:37 pm

referendum wrote:@deepthought
looked at that picture freeze frame immediately after the show and assumed it was Moby, but it fits that it is Clark Middleton as Charlie in a clownishly large overcoat standing on a ladder, or possibly on Audrey's shoulders, protecting her. The neck seems a little off for either Moby or Middleton, but I could buy it being either one. I also like thinking about Charlie and Chuck, Mr. C, together, which would be a natural pairing. Here's the photo lightened up a little.


no.
phases of the moon.
no.
one bald guy is another bald guy.
no.


Is that a haiku? Something seems a little fishy about it. :lol:
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby wAtChLaR » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:03 pm

Agent Sam Stanley wrote:
wAtChLaR wrote:
Agent Sam Stanley wrote:

Cool. If you hadn't skipped 2001 we could've met.


i was at all 3 2000 2001 2002...we must have met :D


Then maybe we did. Or maybe not. I was pretty young and shy and didn't mingle very much. But me and my dad ended up being quite popular that year because we were the first brazilians to attend the fest.
man, trying to remember, it was so long ago....that's so cool re: first Brazilians :D
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby wAtChLaR » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:14 pm

Agent Sam Stanley wrote:
wAtChLaR wrote:
Agent Sam Stanley wrote:

Cool. If you hadn't skipped 2001 we could've met.


i was at all 3 2000 2001 2002...we must have met :D


Then maybe we did. Or maybe not. I was pretty young and shy and didn't mingle very much. But me and my dad ended up being quite popular that year because we were the first brazilians to attend the fest.

sorry everyone, this should probably go to another thread re: festivals or in a PM....i searched and couldn't find a festivals thread....but i'm not the most bulletin board savvy ...

the log lady story telling and meeting Catherine was amazing.....she asked if i wanted to hold the log..i said NO...not worthy
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby ScarFace32 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:17 pm

Metamorphia wrote:Pretty sure it's a different guy. The one with Mr C has a much wider body.


and a neck
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Sam Stanley » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:32 pm

wAtChLaR wrote:
Agent Sam Stanley wrote:
wAtChLaR wrote:
i was at all 3 2000 2001 2002...we must have met :D


Then maybe we did. Or maybe not. I was pretty young and shy and didn't mingle very much. But me and my dad ended up being quite popular that year because we were the first brazilians to attend the fest.

sorry everyone, this should probably go to another thread re: festivals or in a PM....i searched and couldn't find a festivals thread....but i'm not the most bulletin board savvy ...

the log lady story telling and meeting Catherine was amazing.....she asked if i wanted to hold the log..i said NO...not worthy


That's really cool watchlar. It was a true honor to meet her in 2001. Here's me as a dorky teen with her. And I did get to hold her log!

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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby wAtChLaR » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:33 pm

Agent Sam Stanley wrote:
wAtChLaR wrote:
Agent Sam Stanley wrote:
Then maybe we did. Or maybe not. I was pretty young and shy and didn't mingle very much. But me and my dad ended up being quite popular that year because we were the first brazilians to attend the fest.

sorry everyone, this should probably go to another thread re: festivals or in a PM....i searched and couldn't find a festivals thread....but i'm not the most bulletin board savvy ...

the log lady story telling and meeting Catherine was amazing.....she asked if i wanted to hold the log..i said NO...not worthy


That's really cool watchlar. It was a true honor to meet her in 2001. Here's me as a dorky teen with her. And I did get to hold her log!

IMG_1119.JPG
you mean super cool teen ....awesome :D one of the sweetest people i've ever met...no pretense....just love
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:36 pm

The most awesome thread drift ever. :D
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:42 pm

Wow - these pictures are making me tear up. So glad you got to share these moments with her. What a beautiful lady.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby zeronumber » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:48 pm

Umm...lets rock?


Episode 12 anyone??

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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Jackpots » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:48 pm

Framed_Angel wrote:
Mr. Jackpots wrote:I'm not totally in board with Audrey is inside a coma dream theory. But since people seem to love all these alternate reality theories, I was wondering if anyone has suggested that this entire show so far has been inside Audrey's coma dream. After all "we live inside a dream ". Personally I think the closest thing to an alternative reality going in Twin Peaks. Is the Lodge Red Room stuff. And that's it.
What about when they intersect, the Lodge reality and the here-on-earth reality? In The Return, one reality produces a reaction in the other one. Both are available to our perception, the viewers. Yet I am familiar with feeling frustrated or perplexed by the guessing game. It's just that so many factors presented in these 12 Parts thus far, overlap and/ or contradict what would otherwise be a straightforward case to be made.

FWIW I've been viewing these (almost all of the things we've witnessed in 1-12) as either vignettes or scenes featured in a fragmented way like a dream, as if that's the lens we've been given for now. I find Janey-E's interaction (or lack of) with her own son very unrealistic in a untampered reality, for example, but that doesn't seem to have bothered most other folks. The allusion Gerard made that Dougie was "manufactured for a purpose" however, does seem to mean that items in the physical world are not what they seem, Dougie has no track record prior to 1997, and thus "manufactured" takes on more meaning. It is not quite a on-the-level reality in Peaks/ Vegas/ Buckhorn (unless I'm reading your post wrong).

Also I keep thinking to Wizard of Oz the movie that lends reference for other Lynch works like Wild at Heart and particularly I keep seeing the end when Dorothy tells Em and the farmhands ".. the strangest dream.. and you, and you, and you were there." [paraphrasing]
So yes, "inside a dream" is in keeping with much of what's unfolding IMO in The Return, but it's the lens. I think Lynch finds ways to provoke and cue certain emotions and reactions using that lens of perception and almost prioritizes this above a clear-cut resolution-worthy linear narrative. It's why I took seriously something Fenn said in an interview "Just go [experience] for the ride." Which maybe you're on board doing, but seems to me inevitable a lot of us will experience that "ride" in fragmented-different ways.


Your thoughts are completely fair.

Great thing about interpretation is that there are no wrong answers.

To elaborate on shifting and alternative realities and dream spaces.

The films Mulholland Dr and Inland Empire are best examples of telling a story that deals with alternate realities. Where characters literally move from one world to another. Everything is different. Up is down. Down is up. Places and things appear or disappear and personal identities mean nothing.

Peaks, Blue velvet, Wild at Heart I would say take place in more stable consensus type reality. You could say an alternative dimension aspect bleeds through into its universe, and are shown as synchronistic and paranormal type events.

I don't think we are going to see Audrey still in a coma 25 years later. Was there any evidence in TSHOTP to suggest this? I remember Audrey was mentioned.

And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the Twin Peaks universe does do a complete 180. And things change drastically and we learn we live inside Cooper's dream. And he is nothing like Dougie, Dale or Mr. C. Or we learn how atomic explosions change everything. Who knows anything is possible.

What a fantastic ride.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:58 pm

Or maybe everything is exactly as we see it, right down to frog moths being swallowed in our sleep.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby ungeziefer » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:05 pm

A few details I haven't seen mentioned in this thread:


1. Audrey is wearing some sort of loop ring on her right ring finger, and another ring on her right middle finger. She has no rings on her left hand, where wedding rings are generally worn. Charlie is wearing no rings at all on either hand. Given the state of their marriage, if anyone was wearing a wedding ring I'd expect it to be Charlie. But maybe the marriage was purely contractual to begin with?

2. Dr. Amp says the corporations of the world are filled with "monstrous vermin." This is one of the translations for the bug that Gregor Samsa is turned into at the beginning of The Metamorphosis. (Nabokov's preferred translation, in fact.) Given the portrait of Kafka in Gordon's office and the assorted bugs elsewhere, I don't think this is just a coincidence. Maybe it's just part of the ambient dread: Dr. Amp is paranoid up the wazoo, but something of the truth is seeping into his head and "monstrous vermin" is part of it. Or maybe Dr. Amp's gonna get his head crushed.

3. More speculation: Clark says "I won't" at the end of his call. On second watching, I wondered if he was promising Tina that he wouldn't tell Audrey whatever it was that he just learned.

4. Sarah Palmer is conspicuously buying bloody mary mix. Bloody Mary a demon that can be summoned in the mirror by saying "Bloody Mary" 13 times. We saw Sarah's tv of animals devouring each other in the mirror. And, well, we all know where else mirrors have been important. And Sarah's definitely got enough booze for 13 bloody marys! Here's what Wikipedia says:

Historically, the ritual encouraged young women to walk up a flight of stairs backwards while holding a candle and a hand mirror, in a darkened house. As they gazed into the mirror, they were supposed to be able to catch a view of their future husband's face.[1] There was, however, a chance that they would see a skull (or the face of the Grim Reaper) instead, indicating that they were destined to die before they would have the chance to marry.[1][2]

In the ritual of today, Bloody Mary allegedly appears to individuals or groups who ritualistically invoke her name in an act of catoptromancy. This is done by repeatedly chanting her name in a mirror placed in a dimly-lit or candle-lit room. The Bloody Mary apparition allegedly appears as a corpse, a witch or ghost; can be friendly or evil; and is sometimes "seen" covered in blood. The lore surrounding the ritual states that participants may endure the apparition screaming at them, cursing them, strangling them, stealing their soul, drinking their blood,[3] or scratching their eyes out.[4] The modern legend of Hanako-san in Japan strongly parallels the Bloody Mary mythology.


No shortage of possible Peaks associations there.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:19 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
LateReg wrote:The past three parts have also been told more loosely with regards to the chronology. Almost everything in the first nine parts took place in easy to follow, more or less chronological order, other than the clear deviation of the Atomic Bomb. Then in Parts 10 thru 12, it seems that the scenes became more jumbled in the editing room, all still seeming to take place within the same couple of days, but often doubling back and seeming to take place in a more scattered, hard to follow order than usual. This was done to have thematically resonant scenes bounce off one another for sure, but I also wonder if there's something more to it. Are we supposed to feel disoriented? Is time folding in on itself?


I sincerely doubt the vast majority of viewers has noticed stuff like Lucy or Diane's wardrobe swaps or extra night scenes before getting to Jack Rabbit's Palace. It's not disorienting unless you put active effort into geeking out and analyzing the timeline as we do!

It's such an interesting push-and pull in the way that so many viewers seem to think DKL is the ultimate "puzzle box" artist, looking for clues everywhere, whereas DKL has repeatedly said that things making intuitive sense is much more important to him than some intellectual game. I guess the "puzzle box" reputation grows out of the original series' "break the code, solve the crime" shtick, and the infamous MD clues -- so he admittedly does play these types of games sometimes. But it's also important to remember that his last major work was scripted and shot scene by scene, with no ideas whatsoever about an overall narrative arc until midway into filming, because he believed it would all come together through the Unified Field. He's not the biggest planner, and rejoices in letting the chips fall where they may. It's also worth noting that the "clues" on the original show defied rational solution to the point that they were more like surreal non sequitirs (did anyone actually predict the solution to "man in a smiling bag"?), and they never paid off in the sort of Mr. Robot-style "a-ha!" twist people seem to be expecting here. MD is really the only time he's played that kind of game (to great effect, but also out of necessity when he was given the chance to turn the pilot into a movie). Anything is still possible at this stage, but this ain't Lost. DKL is much more interested in creating a mood than mindfucking us.


I agree with all of that. I haven't spent more than a few minutes trying to think ahead, and I actually hadn't noticed the wardrobe changes on my own. What I meant by being disoriented is that I have a general concept of the time passing in this, whivh was easy to follow up until Part 10, and it seems like Bobby and Hawk should have ventured to Jack Rabbit by now, as it seems like multiple days have passed over the course of four hours. But there are certain time markers, such as Hawk and Truman talking about the map, that prove that time is no longer so easy to track, as it occasionally seems to go backwards. I know Lynch is prolonging the mystery and delaying gratification right now, and I'm further disoriented every time a marker comes up and reminds me we still haven't passed two days even though I swear I've seen multiple randomly placed nighttime scenes in the past four hours!
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Jackpots » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:18 pm

kafa81 wrote:Are we sure Diane is texting with Mr.C?

The texts we see her receive are in the iMessage form...anyone that has an iphone knows what this is...and in part 9 Mr.C clearly sends a message via a flip phone of some sorts...so how did Diane receive an iMessage?

Am I looking into this too much, because the higher uppers of Twin Peaks don't give a shit...? Or is there something to this? And sorry if this was mentioned before :wink:


I think Mr. C could send a text to the president using a calculator and an old tv antennae.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Deep Thought » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:28 pm

Mr. Jackpots wrote:
kafa81 wrote:Are we sure Diane is texting with Mr.C?

The texts we see her receive are in the iMessage form...anyone that has an iphone knows what this is...and in part 9 Mr.C clearly sends a message via a flip phone of some sorts...so how did Diane receive an iMessage?

Am I looking into this too much, because the higher uppers of Twin Peaks don't give a shit...? Or is there something to this? And sorry if this was mentioned before :wink:


I think Mr. C could send a text to the president using a calculator and an old tv antennae.


Love this. I was just thinking along those line watching ep. 8 and Mr. C. saying "there are three tracking devices on this car," and then tapping a few times on his newly acquired cell phone, throwing it out the window, and "that should do it." A talented man indeed.
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