Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

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h2nho
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby h2nho » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:23 am

And, furthermore, I thought it was obvious that by the method of transport to the Black Lodge was the electrical outlets paired with the vomiting of garmonbozia. If DoppleCoop held in the vomit, he would stay. He knew that Dougie wouldn't hold in the vomit, and thus he knew that he'd be saved while Dougie would enter.

Dougie did in fact enter the room, came with imperfect courage, and was quickly destroyed.
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:31 am

sewhite2000 wrote:I'm very confused by your question, but I hope this helps:

Evil Coop created Dougie specifically so that when Cooper re-entered the real world, he would switch places with Dougie instead of him. There seems to have been some cosmic moment of destiny when Cooper was going to come out of the Black Lodge, and the way it was supposed to work was that Evil Coop would go back in at that same moment. It was preordained. Jeffries told Evil Coop it was going to happen, but Evil Coop told Darya he had a plan for getting out of it. If Dougie had been killed before Cooper left the Lodge, Cooper would have switched places with Evil Coop. Thus, Dougie had to be alive for Evil Coop's plan to work.


And I gathered that timing his arrest for that time was another way to screw Good Dale over. If the Dougie plan didn't work as of 2:53, then the assassins kill the spare and Good Dale ends up in federal prison for all of the weird stuff in his car, unable to explain ANYTHING.

In the meantime, I'm wondering about the 25 years. I had a thought. Jeffries, despite working against Doppelcoop, seems to be evil. Hawk said in the original series that confronting the Lodge with imperfect courage meant your soul would be annihilated. This ep, they mentioned 3 agents who disappeared: Jeffries, Chet Desmond and Coop. I wonder if we're seeing the three possible results of facing your shadow: loss, tie, and win. We know Jeffries was working with Doppelcoop, so I would bet that he lost and all that's left of him is his shadowself. We haven't seen or heard of Desmond doing anything since he disappeared, so it would make sense he won and ascended to the White Lodge, leaving no shadow to appear in the Black Lodge or replace him on Earth. Cooper still exists, and his doppelganger still exists, so maybe this was a tie. And all Cooper had to do was survive a specific amount of time in the Black Lodge to get a rematch. This would explain why Jeffries isn't swapped back to the Lodge, but no one expected Doppelcooper to avoid his fate (If Jeffries had avoided returning due to a trick I think Gerard and the voice on the phone and the Arm would've been prepared for trickery), and why Desmond isn't referenced at all except in a recount of missing agents.
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wxray
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:34 am

Snailhead wrote:So yeah, the series isn't quite panning out how I'd hoped/expected, but that's OK ... that being said, the one thing I feel is owed to me as a fan is to have Judy be acknowledged/explained in some capacity!!

"We're not going to talk about Judy."

Mr. Strawberry wrote:Analyzing the room where Charlie and Audrey are conversing has revealed some very weird stuff, but the fact that she is so perfectly intact is strange in itself. She was standing in the blast radius of no small explosion but doesn't show any physical sign of it.

This is an absurd thought which I say mostly jokingly, but you never know... Maybe she is propped up on braces or has artificial legs? We see her standing, but don't see her feet or legs, just the dress. I know double amputees who have no issues getting around, including driving (hand controls), but maybe Audrey can't deal and needs help from Charlie to shuttle her around?

The consequence of the Boston Marathon explosion included many such amputations. Of course, that bomb was designed that way (low to the ground), but you never know. Frost was writing this around the time of that horrible event and might have had some influence.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby thedarktrees » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:37 am

kafa81 wrote:
Mr. Strawberry wrote:Several thoughts surfaced during hours of yard work today:

Analyzing the room where Charlie and Audrey are conversing has revealed some very weird stuff, but the fact that she is so perfectly intact is strange in itself. She was standing in the blast radius of no small explosion but doesn't show any physical sign of it.

Was Albert really getting fed up with Gordon's friend, or was he deciphering a message from her body language? They're both hyper aware of what Diane might do with any information she can get her hands on. This could have been a silent transmission for the sake of total security. Gordon also referred to her as visiting a friend of her mother, who has a daughter that's gone missing. It's reminiscent of Lil -- who delivered coded messages using nothing but unique movements -- being his "mother's sister's girl". This could even explain how Gordon knows this friend to begin with: Gordon's aunt is friends with her mother (and Lil is missing!).

The scene with Hutch and Chantal has been called unnecessary but wasn't the whole point to illustrate how callous and deranged they are? Don't know about you guys but it got me concerned, especially when you consider how yrev capable they appear to be. He was fairly eager to find a way to get the warden into their van for a torture session. That really gave me the chills. What's particularly uncomfortable about it is imagining how it must be a regular thing for them, not to mention that this happens in the real world too.


I think it is also supposed to give us a sense of timing and what is to come next.

Mr.C says he wants Hutch and Chantal to kill a warden for him and gives them the details...
After that he says: And then I've got a doubleheader for you in Las Vegas...which I assume means Cooper and possibly Mr.Todd...


Now that Hutch and Chantal have killed the warden, we know they are on their way to Las Vegas to go after Cooper and I guess Mr.Todd...?

And we might see this in part 14 or 15 is my guess...I just wanna know how Cooper is going to get outta this one....or maybe he wont get out of it :(


All this stuff around the assassinations and the timing and all that is making a little bit more sense now. I just got back to thinking about this following the warden Murphy shooting scene in Ep12. Showing that was clearly setting up a next scene with whatever they're going to do in Vegas.

But another possibility: maybe the doubleheader in Vegas isn't Coop and Duncan Todd. Maybe it's really Janey-E and Sonny Jim....
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Judge Giant
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Judge Giant » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:42 am

I fear that Janey-E is not long for this world. Heartbreaking. No pun intended.
This was a vision, fresh and clear as a mountain stream. The mind revealing itself to itself.

Visit my Lynch blog at https://lynchiantimes.wordpress.com, or follow on twitter https://twitter.com/LynchianTimes
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:12 am

Judge Giant wrote:I fear that Janey-E is not long for this world. Heartbreaking. No pun intended.


That's one thing. So much has been put across that having Dale around, even in his sleepwalking state, is a net positive for those who help him that I can't imagine that the woman who's been feeding him, helping him dress, making sure he gets where he needs to be, and just generally taking care of him is going to end up dying or experiencing a tragic death or the loss of her son from it. I've got faith in Cooper here, I think he's going to protect that family somehow. I think they will be better off for having met him.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:26 am

Ragnell wrote:
Judge Giant wrote:I fear that Janey-E is not long for this world. Heartbreaking. No pun intended.


That's one thing. So much has been put across that having Dale around, even in his sleepwalking state, is a net positive for those who help him that I can't imagine that the woman who's been feeding him, helping him dress, making sure he gets where he needs to be, and just generally taking care of him is going to end up dying or experiencing a tragic death or the loss of her son from it. I've got faith in Cooper here, I think he's going to protect that family somehow. I think they will be better off for having met him.


I hope you are right about that. I struggle to see how she fits in when Coop finally comes to his senses, but I think Naomi has been brilliant.
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Ragnell
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Ragnell » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:39 am

Cooperscoffeecup wrote:
Ragnell wrote:
Judge Giant wrote:I fear that Janey-E is not long for this world. Heartbreaking. No pun intended.


That's one thing. So much has been put across that having Dale around, even in his sleepwalking state, is a net positive for those who help him that I can't imagine that the woman who's been feeding him, helping him dress, making sure he gets where he needs to be, and just generally taking care of him is going to end up dying or experiencing a tragic death or the loss of her son from it. I've got faith in Cooper here, I think he's going to protect that family somehow. I think they will be better off for having met him.


I hope you are right about that. I struggle to see how she fits in when Coop finally comes to his senses, but I think Naomi has been brilliant.


See, now I can easily see Coop taking that family to Twin Peaks with him and using Janey-E for his deduction sounding board now that he has no Diane or Harry around. It's just her reactions would be... different. I can also see him finding a gentle, affirming way to part ways after making sure the family is cared for. (Another way the Mitchem Brothers may factor in here.) There's no reason the family HAS to die, they can either stay in Vegas or come North with him and it could make sense.

The only reason they would die is if Cooper after all this time just still isn't ready for the challenge when it presents itself.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:13 am

As I noted yesterday, children in TP:TR have consistently appeared in the context of death, violence, tragedy and illness. I'm not optimistic about Sonny Jim's chances, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong. On Episode 18 of the original series, Coop wonders aloud to Diane whether he's too damaged to eventually settle down and have a family. I have a feeling he's going to have to confront that question, in a way that has very real consequences depending on the choice he makes.

I do wonder whether Janey-E was always part of DoppelCoop's plan for Dougie/Coop (some have even speculated she too was manufactured), or if she's just a woman who met Dougie some time after he entered the world in 1997, liked him, and unwittingly stumbled into all this madness. Currently, I'm a fan of the latter theory, although I go back and forth. It wouldn't make much sense for DoppelCoop to care about what Dougie's life was like, since he intended for Coop to die the second he entered Dougie's existence anyway.

One way or the other, Sonny Jim is at least half "manufactured," even if he is Dougie's physical offspring, and I wonder what that means for his long-term existence. Sort of reminds me of the end of IE, when
Spoiler:
a child magically springs into existence for Lost Girl once Nikki breaks the cycle and frees her.
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Cappy
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Cappy » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:13 am

I don't think Janey-E and Sonny Jim will die. If anything, Janey-E will play a part in protecting the family when BadCoop's minions arrive.

But I do feel like Janey-E and Sonny Jim will vanish as Coop wakes up. I don't want to reduce them to just being figments of his imagination, but seeing as how Cooper's personality is dissolved, the barriers between his ego, id, and superego are all blurred, causing him to project subconscious desires onto the world more freely. A good deal of the Vegas adventure feels too good to be true, what with the way Dougie/Coop always stumbles through situations without real consequence, even being rewarded for his aloofness. The Dougie/Vegas scenario could just be Coop's big waking dream that he projects onto the world. Afterall, he described himself as being "a strong sender."

Maybe when Hutch and Chantal arrive in Vegas they'll actually be stepping into Dale Cooper's idealized version of the world, where things always work out for the best, in spite of and because of human folly.

Edit: The Vegas adventure isn't a literal dream, but it's something that Cooper will 'wake up' from.
Last edited by Cappy on Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hester Prynne
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:18 am

Listened to Entertainment Weekly's podcast yesterday, and they had a good interpretation of the scene with Cole's French companion - that this is sort of Lynch's last hoorah in being Lynch and reveling in his obsessions before the story tightens up in the last leg of the season. Obviously, there's still a third of the show left, so he has plenty of time to do all the crazy and weird things his heart desires, but as the show comes to an end, it will force more of the storylines to converge and come to a resolution (or Lynch's version of one).

There is a lot of that frustration or feelings of being stuck in this episode as others have noted on this thread - Audrey's long scene standing in one place trying to pull information out of Charlie and wanting to leave. The Jacoby time loop where the scene ends referencing the ninth circle of hell where people are essentially frozen and unable to move. Albert's frustration with Cole who just wants to go back and enjoy his Bordeaux. People are ready to "rock," but Lynch is putting on the brakes.

But - we have Jerry who has finally made it out of the woods having been stuck there for most of the season and "Trick" is no longer under house arrest. Don't know if things will start accelerating tonight, but I thought this was an interesting take on the episode.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby EddyEdson » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:49 am

Predictions: Most of the rest of the series will deal with a cascading avalanche of new characters, including but not limited to Tina, Chuck, Billy, Paul, Zebra, Penguin etc etc.

The stories will have little to do with the preceding narrative lines & will be enigmatic, funny, strangely moving and beautifully filmed. A kind of order will emerge from the chaos - fragile, evanescent & breathtaking.

Snatches of Road House conversation between people we don't know will give a few hints at what happened with Coop, Diane, Mr C, Major Briggs, Richard, Becky, Jack Rabbit Palace and so on.

In the midst of universal panning, Frost will reveal in an interview that he had written a tidy fast-paced story resolution arc which Lynch simply ignored.

Well, probably not, unfortunately, but I hope it's not going to be all glib sterile lame "You've heard of Project Blue Book" stuff.
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boske
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:58 am

About dr. Amp, the badge on his beret/hat is from some known military formation (some grenadiers iirc), but the badge does resemble a nuclear mushroom cloud, conveniently placed at his forehead. I believe there is more to this character than we have deciphered thus far.
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby Metamorphia » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:04 am

Just watched Part 12 again. It definitely does improve on repeat viewings, although I guess it is inherently unsatisfying in and of itself.
sewhite2000
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Re: Part 12 - Let's rock (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:12 am

The EW podcast has been terrific. I've been listening to it every week.

I saw an article on TVGuide.com which claimed a new theory has been "exploding all over the Internet". Here's the theory: the "Chuck" referenced by Audrey is actually Richard. Chuck is a familiar variation on Charles, so this theory claims his real name is Richard Charles Horne or Charles Richard Horne, and that he's the son of Charlie and Audrey. Audrey says Chuck stole a truck, and we know Richard was driving a stolen truck.

I'm just throwing that out there, since I heard it. Not saying I endorse it. Actually, I think the theory is kind of week. First of all, Ben said Richard had "no father", so it seems unlikely that Charlie, who's still alive and appears, for better or worse, to still be a big part of Audrey's life, would have been an absent father. Also, why would Richard have the last name Horne instead of Charlie's last name? Using his mother's last name? Again, seems unlikely Richard would use his mother's last name if his father has always been around and is still part of his mother's life. (Also, the theory accepts Audrey's is Richard's mother, which still hasn't been definitively stated).

I was a little annoyed the article claimed the theory was "all over the Internet" when I hadn't heard anyone from here mention it! Surely, this is one of if not the largest forum where fans of the show gather!

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