Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

User avatar
Jasper
Posts: 849
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:22 pm

PeaksCarnivaleLost wrote:re-watching last night

it seems like Charlie says "Enter Story 2"

sorry haven't read the posts lately - apologize if stated earlier.

but since she goes on about Little Girl Down the Lane, I believe that it's clearly a NEW storyline Charlie is going to take her down.

And it seems Audrey doesn't want to go there.

"end your story too" - doesn't make sense cause who else's story is he ending?


If it's a very meta thing, and Charlie in some way represents Lynch/Frost, one story that they ended was Donna's.

TVLINE:
One thing you did release ahead of time was a very lengthy list of all the cast members participating in the revival. Of course, my eyes immediately focused on the names that were missing, like Lara Flynn Boyle. I was a big fan of the Donna character and was disappointed to see that she wouldn’t be in it. Why isn’t she in it?

DAVID LYNCH:
These days people love strange Hollywood side stories that have nothing to do with the film. You can go talk to Lara Flynn Boyle. This is a story that takes place without her.

https://tvline.com/2017/05/19/twin-peak ... vid-lynch/
Last edited by Jasper on Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
DamnFineCreamedCorn
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:14 am

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby DamnFineCreamedCorn » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:42 pm

Jasper wrote:
If it's very meta thing, and Charlie in some way represents Lynch/Frost, one story that they ended was Donna's.


Audrey's in narrative purgatory because Sherilynn Fenn was late signing? I like this.
I've already gone places. I just want to stay where I am.
Cooperscoffeecup
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:54 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:02 pm

zeronumber wrote:Has anyone not noticed Nadine's arm idiosyncrasies during the scene with Dr. Amp?

Her arms shift a couple of times during the exchange shots.

Of course after the Ed revelations... I was keeping a close eye on Nadine and Jacoby's reflections in Run Silent windows. Didnt catch anything quite...except the continuity slips. Watch Nadines arms...

(probably a gaffe but..????)

Anyone else?

Sent from my NEC-NE-201A1A using Tapatalk


Yes I noticed Nadine's arms. her hands are up in scenes shot one way and don by her side when shot from behind. I thought they were just errors in shooting.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 2371
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:07 pm

DamnFineCreamedCorn wrote:
Jasper wrote:
If it's very meta thing, and Charlie in some way represents Lynch/Frost, one story that they ended was Donna's.


Audrey's in narrative purgatory because Sherilynn Fenn was late signing? I like this.


I don't buy this, but I am highly amused by the image of DKL yelling at Fenn during negotiations, "Do you want me to end your story too?!"
misterroundheels
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:43 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby misterroundheels » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:18 pm

Manwith wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:I am not an expert but wouldn't the guy in charge of adding the reflection look at the normal footage first, then add the effect, then re watch the results at least once? It feels like a big editing mistake if it's a mistake


I didn't notice it at all so I don't know how big a mistake it is. We've had other editing glitches in the show people thought meant something but they didn't. (Candy's first appearance combined footage shot at different times. People thought she was a lodge creature who was invisible, but it was just an editing glitch since the footage they were working with was imperfect).

Also, who's to say Lynch didn't notice the mistake, liked how it looked, so left it in there? There doesn't have to be a *story* reason for it.


I have worked with digital editing and compositing software for twenty years, and I cannot imagine a scenario where this could be done accidentally. This is two different shots, layered on top of each other, with a matte. It's NOT a mistake.

I didn't notice it during my first watch, but I did notice something off with Audrey's reflection, which was before, strangely enough. I just assumed they used a stand-in for her reverse shot. But after seeing the thing with Big Ed, I'm thinking perhaps there's more to it...
User avatar
Wonderful & Strange
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Wonderful & Strange » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:34 pm

Count me in with those who think the reflection is a meaningless detail.

One of the challenges of a show like this is to be able to discern between authentic subtext and subjective projection. It's really easy for our imaginations to run wild with any little glitch. That's part of the fun of watching, but it's also an interpretive hurdle to be overcome.

What we're to take from Big Ed is that he's alone in the world without Norma. He told Bobby not to eat alone, and then later he himself is eating alone.
Member of the Agent Tammy Preston Defense Lodge
djsunyc
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby djsunyc » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:06 pm

i'm in the same boat regarding the reflection. we know lynch and reflections (hello bob)...so if something was meant to be seen, we would've all seen it right away...this was just some production stuff imho.
User avatar
Dreamy Audrey
Posts: 224
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:21 pm

misterroundheels wrote:I didn't notice it during my first watch, but I did notice something off with Audrey's reflection, which was before, strangely enough. I just assumed they used a stand-in for her reverse shot. But after seeing the thing with Big Ed, I'm thinking perhaps there's more to it...

I agree that something about Audrey's reflection seems off, though I don't know if it means anything or is just a mistake. I think the angle of her reflection might be wrong:

Image

I am not sure if we would see Audrey's reflection at all when she's sitting in that angle, especially since there's only a small area of the window in which things can be reflected, because the rest is covered by curtains:

Image

And if she can be reflected in the window from that position, would we see her entire reflection when Charlie is sitting in the way? Why isn't there a reflection of Charlie in the second picture when there is one in the third picture, which shows the same perspective (it's from before Audrey sits down):

Image

This could be due to different takes or it's an editing mistake. Maybe Audrey's reflection was edited in later and someone did a sloppy job? Maybe they wanted Audrey to sit in that spot but they couldn't get her reflection in the window from there, but they wanted her reflection and added it later, therefore it looks off. Or if it's intentional, it might be just to give us a feeling that something is off. I also think that seeing the real Charlie and only Audrey's reflection in the same shot is a bit creepy, so maybe it was done for that effect?

Edit: Another thing that seems off is the movements of Audrey's reflection. The real Audrey seems very unsettled and is shaking towards the end of the scene, while the reflection moves only slowly and seems calmer. But it's difficult to tell if that was done on purpose, because we don't have both Audrey and her reflection in the same shot and it could be because the reflection is from a different take. Actors' positions and movements don't always match between cuts.

By the way, Audrey's reflection (but not Audrey) kind of reminds me of a portrait, though I'm not sure if it's a specific one or just generally. There's something graceful about her reflection.
Last edited by Dreamy Audrey on Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cooperscoffeecup
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:54 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:01 pm

djsunyc wrote:i'm in the same boat regarding the reflection. we know lynch and reflections (hello bob)...so if something was meant to be seen, we would've all seen it right away...this was just some production stuff imho.


I tend to agree. Ed's reflection is certainly off, but just watched the Audrey scene and nothing seemed untoward to me with her sitting reflection. For the remaining parts, I am going to enjoy the ride and stop analyzing all the minute details. :)
User avatar
tresojos
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:54 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby tresojos » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:14 pm

how are ed and norma not together after all these years and that missingg pieces scene??!? thats the real tragedy of twin peaks tbh. fuck the black lodge
donna madonna mañana fofana osama bin laden hayward
User avatar
blue_tomorrows
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby blue_tomorrows » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:31 pm

Novalis wrote:
sycamore wrote:
Deep Thought wrote:
Its a slippery slope you are on, as you could extend your argument to support the idea that Sarah's TV loop was just an editing mistake as well.


by the way ... in all my viewings of the boxing match on sarah's tv, i also watched the three mirrors above her sofa. nothing to report here. all reflections perfectly mimic her actions. what's strange is that this seems like a perfectly normal occurance to her - she doesn't try to change the channel or even bother attempting to fix the loop. she seems so resigned to it like she's almost given up.


One of the most disquieting scenes of the series so far for me. Just the darkened room, the overflowing ashtrays, the bottles, all the weird ornaments, the portrait photos, the half-eaten ear of corn, the tv playing to itself (or is that loop supposed to be subjective? who knows?) etc. Nothing spectacular happens, but the scenery just oozes malevolence.

Image


That set is a triumph of unsettling art direction, for sure. Also, there appear to be at least 3 prescription pill bottles in that shot (possibly 4, but the 4th one looks more like aspirin or ibuprofen). Those (whatever they are) plus gallons of booze could definitely have, um, some kind of impact on one's mental state!
User avatar
Cappy
Posts: 425
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:27 am

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cappy » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:21 pm

Taperecorder wrote:
Snailhead wrote:
Cappy wrote:If Audrey feels like she isn't herself, or that she doesn't even know who she is anymore, then who else is she? I think...


Cappy - while I'm not expecting any of those scenarios to come to fruition, that's one of my favourite posts in a while. Some really fascinating possibilities.


Yeah, I agree. Beautiful post Cappy!


Thanks! I don't think any of those possibilities will come to the fore, as Twin Peaks is primarily Laura Palmer and/or Dale Cooper's story, and the other characters seem to exist to support the larger narrative. But those Audrey/Charlie scenes are so odd that I can't help but feel like they have some real deep significance.

The new Audrey scenes have forced me to re-think Audrey moments from the original series. For instance, Audrey's second scene in the pilot, where she switches her shoes in the school hallway. Given the (theorized) significance that shoes have taken on this season (Cooper losing his shoes as he enters the socket to become Dougie), that scene feels like it has a new relevance. Also, her reaction to the news of Laura's death always struck me as a little ambiguous. When she hears that Laura is dead she just reacts with a mixture of whimsical boredom and passive curiosity... maybe that doesn't describe it well, but I always had difficulty reading her expression in that scene.

Either way, Charlie's mention that he could "end her story" was kind of unsettling.
User avatar
Saturn's child
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:38 pm
Location: Blue Mountains

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:07 pm

Cappy wrote:Also, her reaction to the news of Laura's death always struck me as a little ambiguous. When she hears that Laura is dead she just reacts with a mixture of whimsical boredom and passive curiosity... maybe that doesn't describe it well, but I always had difficulty reading her expression in that scene.


Yeah, I've always been intrigued by her reaction; I think it's great. In some ways I feel it mirrors the Pilot Coop's darker edge (which resurfaces in ep 29), the way he comes across macabrely interested in the unfolding mystery.

As for the Return's Audrey, I'm loving your ongoing speculation. Even if she does end up existing in the 'real world' & not in a coma/dream, such speculation allows your mind to stretch & travel to some pretty interesting places. (ie: to the ninth circle of hell with the Occam's Razor crowd, bring on the rabbit holes! Ed's reflection is sentient! Audrey is the reincarnation of Laura! Evolution of the Arm is still played by MJA who hides in the trunk! etc)
User avatar
PeteMartell
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:50 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby PeteMartell » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:12 pm

JohnPalSki wrote:Re: Dutchman
I just read that the "Flying Dutchman" is a legendary ghost ship that can't find a port and is doomed to sail forever, has been reported many times, etc..
Seems like this most likely supernatural Dutchman place could have something to do with being stuck somewhere...
Could just be another nod to the concept of being stuck that has pervaded a lot of TP lore...
Or, most likely, I'm off track.


Yes, there is an opera by Richard Wagner called the Flying Dutchman about this ghost ship. The story deals with "redemption through love" where the captain who made a deal with Satan is doomed to wander through the sea. Every seven years it was able to come to port, through a loophole that allows the captain to be released from his curse if he can find true love. One of these times he meets a man who accepts money in exchange for his daughter's hand in marriage. Ultimately, like most Wagner operas, she dies in order for a transfiguration to occur, in this case so that the captain can be released from his curse and their immortal love can ascend to heaven.

So, this makes me think a lot about Leland and his relationship with the ghost captain named Bob and leland's daughter Laura. There are definitely a bunch of overlapping themes here. Definitely a big one with the Saturn conjunction that happens every 25 years in the Black lodge. Possibly the Dutchman is another name for the room above the convienience store? Is Bob the ghost captain of some doomed flying ship?

Or, what was that strange flying ship that cooper found himself in with the woman with no eyes? Maybe that's another manifestation of it?

I don't know, but definitely there is something to this and I would be surprised if Lynch or frost were unfamiliar with this particular opera.
User avatar
Saturn's child
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:38 pm
Location: Blue Mountains

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Saturn's child » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:18 pm

PeteMartell wrote:Or, what was that strange flying ship that cooper found himself in with the woman with no eyes? Maybe that's another manifestation of it?


My mind went to the same place Pete:
http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3551&p=100152#p100145

I don't really think that'll be the Dutchman, but it's what jumped in my mind. Regarding the Flying Dutchman, whether it was the intended evocation or not (Max Von's, anyone?), the cursed ship's fate is that it is in a time-loop, which is very fitting for this part.

Return to “Parts Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests