Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

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Walterodim
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Walterodim » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:01 pm

Oh my. The Big Ed reflection is a real thing :) Just watched the video on Reddit.
First time I watched it I didn't even noticed a reflection., but it definitely is there and pretty disturbing.

I love this show. Can't wait to pick up the Blu ray box and watch it all in a 3 day marathon.

It's not the Twin Peaks of 27 years ago. Season 1 and 2 are so unique. There is nothing like it and never will be.
Actually when thinking about it now after seeing 13 episodes of season 3, it makes more and more sense why the tone is so different.

The way season 1 and 2 were build and made worked because of the characters current state of minds, ages, the overall story and the towns general optimistic idiosyncratic nature. Even though there were of course bad stuff going on at the same time. Laura's death changed everything and everything fell slowly apart. In season 3 we are seeing the state of the town after 25 years. Still in a downward spiral and no one to stop it also.

I'm calling it now. Lynch will go out with a cliffhanger in episode 18. In true nature of the series (like season 1 and 2)
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sylvia_north
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:07 pm

sewhite2000 wrote: I just think it does a disservice to the show I love so much for there to be so much focus on alternate timelines, which I don't think is of interest to Lynch and Frost...

To add to what Ragnell said on 56, did you read TSHOTP and the corresponding easter eggs? For example
Spoiler:
from twin peaks wikia under 3D glasses: "On Norma's postcard to her parents, Red obscures (but does not completely eliminate) all her text, including the name and address of her parents ("Lindstrom rather than "Blackburn"), and parts of the anachronistic "First Man On The Moon" stamp. Blue eliminates the "Post Card" label and lines (though not completely the stamp or postmark)." In Norma's postcard, she writes seeing Sammy Davis Jr in LA but it's an episode that was shot in NYC. The First Man on the Moon stamp on it is dated 5 months prior to the moonwalk and 7 months before the stamp was released, and 5 years prior to the different stamp in the book trailer video. The real life date of the moon landing in mentioned by Briggs in another section.


Seeds of alternate timelines have definitely been planted. Ditto with Hastings' Zone web page. What "So much focus" is entirely subjective. And that reflection of Ed is damn freaky, and his reaction really can't be ignored.
LateReg wrote:I also thought that Coop was crying because he was somewhat conscious of the life he had missed out on, lacking a child of his own due to 25 years of missing time.
I felt it was a combination of that, and looking at the kid like he is his own son since he shares some of Coop's DNA.

The literal reading is acceptable, but since that episode we've learned more about Cooper's new super-intuition, too. I agree there is real love there because of the reasons you noted! And fingers x'd Coop and Janey keeps him safe.
Mr. Reindeer wrote: I didn't find the scene weird at all. It was one of the more human moments in a DKL work.

"Weird as shit" were Janey's words, not mine, just to be sure.

Nice catch on Jerry's costume being recycled.... Curious...
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BigEd
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:51 pm

Walterodim wrote:Oh my. The Big Ed reflection is a real thing :) Just watched the video on Reddit.
First time I watched it I didn't even noticed a reflection., but it definitely is there and pretty disturbing.


Can you post a link? I went to Reddit and couldn't easily locate it in the subredit topics. I didn't dig too deep because a) I didn't want to encounter part 14 spoilers and b) it's reddit and it historically has provided much more irritation than entertainment. Thanks! 8)
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:55 pm

Mark said on his Reddit AMA the moon landing stamp is "either a clue or a mistake." Honestly, I think most of the consiracy theorizing over TSHoTP is wishful thinking because people don't want to entertain the possibility that Mark didn't particularly care about continuity (something he has more or less acknowledged). But I guess time will tell.
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WhiteLodge90
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby WhiteLodge90 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:31 pm

Who else is craving hardcore to hear this song on a new episode??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKBRyNNW3u0

I know we're not getting TMFAP but I'd love to hear it in ANY weird context in the new show. It's just so damn good and so damn Twin Peaks!

P.S For some reason the video's aren't loading when I try and post it on here. Anyone know why?
The milk will get cool on you pretty soon.
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Ross
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Ross » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:40 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Mark said on his Reddit AMA the moon landing stamp is "either a clue or a mistake." Honestly, I think most of the consiracy theorizing over TSHoTP is wishful thinking because people don't want to entertain the possibility that Mark didn't particularly care about continuity (something he has more or less acknowledged). But I guess time will tell.

I think the real answer is just that. Mark decided to just write what he wanted. Continuity just wasn't a concern of his.
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Rudagger
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Rudagger » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:07 pm

sylvia_north wrote:To add to what Ragnell said on 56, did you read TSHOTP and the corresponding easter eggs?


Not to be overly negative, but, I think you really should level expectations. Most of those 'easter eggs of an alternate timeline' feel to me like plain old retconning, and editorial oversights. No author really wants to be stuck writing around *every* minute detail for a 25 year old series (which was conceived with a group of people as opposed to just Frost/Lynch). I also think if they were making an earnest, and meaningful attempt at an alternate timeline .. it really should've been aggressively seeded in the show by now as that is a mammoth plot (after all, there's only five hours left).

I think Frost is just trying to be cute about any errors. Keep in mind, the novel itself was writing on a pretty short timetable. I believe he said he only started actually putting pen to paper when they started filming the show, so it would've gone through writing, editing and a pretty large amount of design work in the span of only a year (and it seems like Final Dossier may've been pulled from an initially larger manuscript).
whoisalhedges
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby whoisalhedges » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:41 pm

Rudagger wrote:
sylvia_north wrote:To add to what Ragnell said on 56, did you read TSHOTP and the corresponding easter eggs?


Not to be overly negative, but, I think you really should level expectations. Most of those 'easter eggs of an alternate timeline' feel to me like plain old retconning, and editorial oversights. No author really wants to be stuck writing around *every* minute detail for a 25 year old series (which was conceived with a group of people as opposed to just Frost/Lynch).

I'm sure I would agree were we talking about 3 or 4 anomalies/errors. As it is, however, about half of the "facts" in TSHOTP that are capable of being checked are simply incorrect. I don't imagine every discrepancy is intentional; but if they're ALL simple errors, then a high schooler could've done a better job of fact checking - and it's not by a high schooler, its by Mark Frost.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby whoisalhedges » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Annie is the big one. She is the REASON Coop went into the Lodge to begin with. Frost knew damn well she won the pageant. I'd entertain the thought of retconning, but... Part 7, there's Annie. So, she is in fact NOT being erased from TP history... just the book. There's a reason. I don't know what it is, but THAT is intentional.
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sylvia_north
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:49 pm

whoisalhedges wrote:Annie is the big one. She is the REASON Coop went into the Lodge to begin with. Frost knew damn well she won the pageant. I'd entertain the thought of retconning, but... Part 7, there's Annie. So, she is in fact NOT being erased from TP history... just the book. There's a reason. I don't know what it is, but THAT is intentional.


Yes, thank you lol. Sigh. My point was that no one can say Lynch and Frost have no interest in multiverses/alternate timelines when we have evidence. I also mentioned Hastings's Zone. :!: it's in the text :!: Once again, as another poster I can't find said, the artistic process isn't planned out- it's instinctive. And these "errors" lend themselves to subjective interpretation. They lent themselves to someone planting 3D signposts in the book's printing, deliberately.

There are deliberate omissions and changes that he's winkingly drawn attention to, in his book tour and RMA. https://garmonblogzia.wordpress.com/201 ... win-peaks/ Links to Lostinthemovies's extenstive inaccuracy research.
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NonStopKnits
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby NonStopKnits » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:57 pm

Ragnell wrote:When it comes to time and Twin Peaks... Lynch opened that can of worms by establishing that time in the Lodges isn't necessarily bound to time in the human world. He did this in the original series by establishing Laura and Dale had the same dream a week or two apart from each other. He did this in FWWM by having Annie appear in Laura's dream. It's how the seers know the future in Twin Peaks, because the Lodges transcend time. "Through darkness of future past" "Is it future or is it past?" He INVITED us to speculate about time.

Then in this season, we get Maj. Briggs' body established as being the wrong age. We get several numbers, one of which is specified as a time that shows up on a watch worn by a Lodge Spirit. We see Dale thrown backwards in time at the end of Part 2. We see Dale interacting with the out-of-sync Naido in an entire sequence where time seems to be backing up and restarting.

And now as the action speeds up, the story is being told non-sequentially and there's multiple references to time and out of sync "mistakes". After he invited us to speculate about time.

I personally don't buy any of the alternate timeline theories. I think there's one timeline, but that certain events in the past may hinge on events in the future and that the Lodge entities are not limited to just moving in one direction in the fourth dimension. I do think something wonky is going on in Twin Peaks, but I don't think out of chronology storytelling indicates the story is actually happening out of order.

That said, I don't think people focusing on the time effects and/or mistakes and speculating about them is ignoring the art. It's just a different way to appreciate it, and Lynch did invite us to look at different ways of perceiving time. Then he started PLAYING with time. It's not unreasonable or missing the point to start discussing the various explanations for time being out of whack.


Haven't quite gotten to the end of the thread yet, but I thoroughly love and agree with this post. The TV I watch on isn't very great at all, so I haven't really seen anything weird in shadows or reflections. I did see the weird flash from parts 1-2 when Hastings wife was shot, and I still feel something about it is odd.
Mr. Jackpots
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Jackpots » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:17 pm

NonStopKnits wrote:
Ragnell wrote:
I personally don't buy any of the alternate timeline theories. I think there's one timeline, but that certain events in the past may hinge on events in the future and that the Lodge entities are not limited to just moving in one direction in the fourth dimension. I do think something wonky is going on in Twin Peaks, but I don't think out of chronology storytelling indicates the story is actually happening out of order.
.


d.


I think this is pretty spot on.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:59 pm

whoisalhedges wrote:Annie is the big one. She is the REASON Coop went into the Lodge to begin with. Frost knew damn well she won the pageant. I'd entertain the thought of retconning, but... Part 7, there's Annie. So, she is in fact NOT being erased from TP history... just the book. There's a reason. I don't know what it is, but THAT is intentional.


The "Lana winning the pageant" thing wasn't even in the book, though. It's just something he said at signings.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:08 pm

People need to remember that this franchise's entire mythology was born out of a crew member being accidentally caught in a shot. L/F are jazz musicians, improvising and riffing and letting the audience experience the result as they will. Too many people are approaching the work like an intricate piece of classical music, and they're setting themselves up for disappointment.
Mr. Jackpots
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Jackpots » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:13 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
whoisalhedges wrote:Annie is the big one. She is the REASON Coop went into the Lodge to begin with. Frost knew damn well she won the pageant. I'd entertain the thought of retconning, but... Part 7, there's Annie. So, she is in fact NOT being erased from TP history... just the book. There's a reason. I don't know what it is, but THAT is intentional.


The "Lana winning the pageant" thing wasn't even in the book, though. It's just something he said at signings.


Maybe when DougieCooper hears the name "Annie" he will wake up.

Earlier on in the Series I thought we might see DougieCooper slowly wake up. His personality develop from infant stage to adulthood, as he regains his composure. And eventually resembles the Dale Cooper we all love and remember from the original series.

Now with just a handful of episodes left I now expect we might see Good Old Dale wake up in bang. Or maybe Good Ol Dale never wakes up. And winds up back in the Lodge.

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