Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

User avatar
SnowqualmieJim
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:24 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby SnowqualmieJim » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:15 am

Long time lurker, first time poster. Rewatched this episode; some of the dialogue between Audrey and Charlie strongly hints at a dream/hallucination/vision:

“I feel like I’m somewhere else. Have you ever had that feeling, Charlie?”
“No.”
“Like I’m somewhere else and I’m somebody else, have you ever felt that?”
“No.”

She remembers something beyond this existence; Charlie doesn't, which has a certain logic if he exists only in her mind.

Other oddities: nothing in their house is modern, even by the standards of 1990-1991. One of the ideas floating around last week was that we were watching actress Audrey Horne acting out a play on a stage, and simply couldn't see the audience or cameras. But mentioning the Roadhouse AND her character being named Audrey would seem to be way too big a coincidence, even for Twin Peaks.

At no point in any discussion of Richard Horne's crimes has anyone mentioned his mother, not even Ben Horne talking with Frank Truman and lamenting the absence of his father. One theory is that Audrey's still in a coma -- apparently it is possible to give birth while comatose -- but then again, it would seem odd that Ben Horne wouldn't acknowledge the fact that his daughter/Richard Horne's mother never came out of her coma. (Who raised him?) The easiest way for this to make sense are if Audrey is dead (pretty unlikely, even that would be worth mentioning) or if Audrey is institutionalized.

Both of Audrey's scenes, put together, seem really dreamlike; she wants to leave but can't, she barely moves, she doesn't remember obvious things like where the Roadhouse is, she seems really frightened of him at various points, she mentions "Ghostwood" out of nowhere...

"Charlie, help me, is it Ghostwood here?"

Finally, why would Audrey Horne ever marry this hostile potato dumpling of a man? She doesn't need the money, she was attracted to Cooper and Billy Zane, and she seemed exceptionally uncompromising. One of her mottos was, "I'm Audrey Horne, and I get what I want." The whole thing makes more sense as a nightmare, where she can't get anything she wants...

Oh, and he says he doesn't have a crystal ball when there's one sitting right in front of him on his desk. Very dreamlike...
User avatar
crazyscottishguy
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:17 am

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby crazyscottishguy » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:18 am

The whole Charlie/ Audrey scene reminds me of Shutter Island movie scenario.
User avatar
jakemartinez
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:17 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby jakemartinez » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:29 am

I just had a silly question... hopefully someone can answer... how do we know it was part 14 that leaked and not some other part?
User avatar
Soolsma
Posts: 1175
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:28 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Soolsma » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:30 am

jakemartinez wrote:I just had a silly question... hopefully someone can answer... how do we know it was part 14 that leaked and not some other part?


Because the corresponding episode title/quote was in there.
Carrie Page: "It's a long way... In those days, I was too young to know any better."
User avatar
jakemartinez
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:17 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby jakemartinez » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:32 am

Soolsma wrote:
jakemartinez wrote:I just had a silly question... hopefully someone can answer... how do we know it was part 14 that leaked and not some other part?


Because the corresponding episode title/quote was in there.


Ok! Thanks! I read spoilers and was hoping it wasn't for an even further part down the line. Lol.
User avatar
Novalis
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:38 am

SnowqualmieJim wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster. Rewatched this episode; some of the dialogue between Audrey and Charlie strongly hints at a dream/hallucination/vision:

“I feel like I’m somewhere else. Have you ever had that feeling, Charlie?”
“No.”
“Like I’m somewhere else and I’m somebody else, have you ever felt that?”
“No.”

She remembers something beyond this existence; Charlie doesn't, which has a certain logic if he exists only in her mind.

Other oddities: nothing in their house is modern, even by the standards of 1990-1991. One of the ideas floating around last week was that we were watching actress Audrey Horne acting out a play on a stage, and simply couldn't see the audience or cameras. But mentioning the Roadhouse AND her character being named Audrey would seem to be way too big a coincidence, even for Twin Peaks.

At no point in any discussion of Richard Horne's crimes has anyone mentioned his mother, not even Ben Horne talking with Frank Truman and lamenting the absence of his father. One theory is that Audrey's still in a coma -- apparently it is possible to give birth while comatose -- but then again, it would seem odd that Ben Horne wouldn't acknowledge the fact that his daughter/Richard Horne's mother never came out of her coma. (Who raised him?) The easiest way for this to make sense are if Audrey is dead (pretty unlikely, even that would be worth mentioning) or if Audrey is institutionalized.

Both of Audrey's scenes, put together, seem really dreamlike; she wants to leave but can't, she barely moves, she doesn't remember obvious things like where the Roadhouse is, she seems really frightened of him at various points, she mentions "Ghostwood" out of nowhere...

"Charlie, help me, is it Ghostwood here?"

Finally, why would Audrey Horne ever marry this hostile potato dumpling of a man? She doesn't need the money, she was attracted to Cooper and Billy Zane, and she seemed exceptionally uncompromising. One of her mottos was, "I'm Audrey Horne, and I get what I want." The whole thing makes more sense as a nightmare, where she can't get anything she wants...

Oh, and he says he doesn't have a crystal ball when there's one sitting right in front of him on his desk. Very dreamlike...


Welcome to the forum. I feel the same about the Charlie-Audrey scenes. Especially the part about Charlie seeming very much like the representation of some kind of traumatic mental block.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
sewhite2000
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:17 am

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby sewhite2000 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:53 am

Sigh.

People went insane about the flashing windows on the airplane. People went insane over the glitch as Tammy walks down the hall toward Gordon's motel room door. People went insane over the changing patrons in the Double R. People went insane over an apparent glitch in the movement of the head or the way the blood sprayed when Evil Coop killed Hastings' wife. People went insane over Miriam's last name being different on the envelope than in the closing credits.

How many of these have ever been referenced again or turned out to have any significant meaning in the show?

Why, then, is everyone sure that a little oddity in Ed's reflection is The Most Significant Moment in Television History?
User avatar
ScarFace32
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby ScarFace32 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:54 am

Everything in the room with Audrey is out of the 1930's or 1940's. Especially the radio, even the way Charlie is dressed. And remember he used a rotary phone.

Did I imagine the Little Man from Another Place's hand placed the ring on the table?
User avatar
ScarFace32
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby ScarFace32 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:54 am

Did Bad Cooper put the ring on Ray because he was dying and the ring would then return to the lodge?
Last edited by ScarFace32 on Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BlueLodge
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:06 am

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby BlueLodge » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:55 am

Just repeating the question as it seems pretty crucial, and not something anyone's addressed;

Why was the colour of the floor in the Red Room different? Red and White instead of Black and White.

That seems like an intentionally big change.
User avatar
jakemartinez
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:17 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby jakemartinez » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:58 am

BlueLodge wrote:Just repeating the question as it seems pretty crucial, and not something anyone's addressed;

Why was the colour of the floor in the Red Room different? Red and White instead of Black and White.

That seems like an intentionally big change.


Didn't DKL confirm or someone that it's always been that brownish red and white?
User avatar
referendum
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:29 am

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:58 am

Why, then, is everyone sure that a little oddity in Ed's reflection is The Most Significant Moment in Television History?


^^ it is more likely to be a trace of a video edit, cutting a longer take down to get cars going by at the time they wanted, rather than anything meaningful...
''let's not overthink this opportunity''
User avatar
wxray
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 5:04 am

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:03 pm

ScarFace32 wrote:Everything in the room with Audrey is out of the 1930's or 1940's. Especially the radio, even the way Charlie is dressed. And remember he used a rotary phone.

Yep. Hard to pin down, but somewhere around '45. The TS Eliot book was '43. Other stuff looks very pre-war, but post 1930.
User avatar
Novalis
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:04 pm

jakemartinez wrote:
BlueLodge wrote:Just repeating the question as it seems pretty crucial, and not something anyone's addressed;

Why was the colour of the floor in the Red Room different? Red and White instead of Black and White.

That seems like an intentionally big change.


Didn't DKL confirm or someone that it's always been that brownish red and white?


You can see the ruddy brownishness of the darker chevrons in some episodes clearer than others. Also, at the end of part 2, where the chevrons appear to grow in size, separate, and Cooper falls through, they are clearly not black and white but brown and white.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
User avatar
Troubbble
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:55 am

Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Troubbble » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:08 pm

SnowqualmieJim wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster. Rewatched this episode; some of the dialogue between Audrey and Charlie strongly hints at a dream/hallucination/vision:

“I feel like I’m somewhere else. Have you ever had that feeling, Charlie?”
“No.”
“Like I’m somewhere else and I’m somebody else, have you ever felt that?”
“No.”

She remembers something beyond this existence; Charlie doesn't, which has a certain logic if he exists only in her mind.

Other oddities: nothing in their house is modern, even by the standards of 1990-1991. One of the ideas floating around last week was that we were watching actress Audrey Horne acting out a play on a stage, and simply couldn't see the audience or cameras. But mentioning the Roadhouse AND her character being named Audrey would seem to be way too big a coincidence, even for Twin Peaks.

At no point in any discussion of Richard Horne's crimes has anyone mentioned his mother, not even Ben Horne talking with Frank Truman and lamenting the absence of his father. One theory is that Audrey's still in a coma -- apparently it is possible to give birth while comatose -- but then again, it would seem odd that Ben Horne wouldn't acknowledge the fact that his daughter/Richard Horne's mother never came out of her coma. (Who raised him?) The easiest way for this to make sense are if Audrey is dead (pretty unlikely, even that would be worth mentioning) or if Audrey is institutionalized.

Both of Audrey's scenes, put together, seem really dreamlike; she wants to leave but can't, she barely moves, she doesn't remember obvious things like where the Roadhouse is, she seems really frightened of him at various points, she mentions "Ghostwood" out of nowhere...

"Charlie, help me, is it Ghostwood here?"

Finally, why would Audrey Horne ever marry this hostile potato dumpling of a man? She doesn't need the money, she was attracted to Cooper and Billy Zane, and she seemed exceptionally uncompromising. One of her mottos was, "I'm Audrey Horne, and I get what I want." The whole thing makes more sense as a nightmare, where she can't get anything she wants...

Oh, and he says he doesn't have a crystal ball when there's one sitting right in front of him on his desk. Very dreamlike...


After explaining why I didn't believe in the coma theory last week, I was certainly alarmed by this episode's Audrey scene, which only seems to encourage that line of thinking more.

Regardless, I still think that everything you're describing is just as easily attributable to the fact that Audrey may be brain damaged or delusional after the trauma of the bank explosion.

The one thing that sticks in my craw is Charlie's threat to "end her story." What in the HELL is that supposed to mean? Can't even begin to fathom, whether she's in Twin Peaks or Wonderland.

Return to “Parts Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests