Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

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claaa7
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:04 am

i would have liked James' Roadhouse scene even more if he had sung a new take of the vocals over the classic instrumental. i believe that the neutered high pitch voice is really the only thing that makes people Think that song is so ridiciolous. it's actually a pretty well written / well orchestrated Little pop tune with a nice '50's nostalgia vibe imo and tbh I have really been waiting to see James again.

in my mind it is possible that Donna died in a motorcycle accident with James. it is clear that he doesn't have any physicial deformities after the accident but being responsible for driving the vehicle that leads to your lover or a good friends death is the thing that can make people go very quiet, introspective and sad.

i never really understood why the bar was called both The Roadhouse and the Bang Bang Bar but i just rewatched that beautiful outtake from the Pilot where Truman explains it to Cooper. it's real name is The Bang Bang Bar but everybody started calling it The Roadhouse which stuck. it's fascinating that that scene also proves that The Bookhouse Boys as a Group with duties passed down through generations was already established in the Pilot.
Rik Renault
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Rik Renault » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:28 am

+1 to being unsure if BOB is still 'with' Doppelcoop. I've seen people suggest that the super strength confirms that BOB is still with Coop but that might just be an ability of the doppelganger, and crrtainly wasn't something that others possessed by BOB had.

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claaa7
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:32 am

interestingly enough the only real scene uploaded by the official Showtime account on YouTube is James' Roadhouse performance.

writersblock
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby writersblock » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:10 am

boske wrote:
BigEd wrote:
kafa81 wrote:So if Ray was sent to the Black Lodge because of the ring...that means Laura was sent there after BOB killed her in the train car in FWWM?

I always wondered what she was doing there and how she got there...extremely odd...and really cool at the same time :D


Interesting. Does this mean that we should be expecting to encounter Theresa Banks in the Black Lodge as well? She wore the ring prior to being killed, but then it was missing from the finger of her corpse (just like with Ray).


No. Neither Caroline nor Maddy wore it and yet they were there.


I think the ring GUARANTEES you go to the Lodge - but there are other ways for souls to get there.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:12 am

Showtime have made available Part 1 on facebook. I haven't looked at any more than the opening two scenes, but it mentions it has been re-edited by David Lynch. Is this their push for the last minute subscribers who will binge in the remaining weeks?
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boske
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:34 am

writersblock wrote:
boske wrote:
BigEd wrote:
Interesting. Does this mean that we should be expecting to encounter Theresa Banks in the Black Lodge as well? She wore the ring prior to being killed, but then it was missing from the finger of her corpse (just like with Ray).


No. Neither Caroline nor Maddy wore it and yet they were there.


I think the ring GUARANTEES you go to the Lodge - but there are other ways for souls to get there.


Makes sense to me too. It is simply that Theresa Banks was not relevant to Cooper's storyline. Chances are good that Chester Desmond would have met her in the lodge.
claaa7
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby claaa7 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:38 am

Cooperscoffeecup wrote:Showtime have made available Part 1 on facebook. I haven't looked at any more than the opening two scenes, but it mentions it has been re-edited by David Lynch. Is this their push for the last minute subscribers who will binge in the remaining weeks?


that's interesting.. how long is it? did you notice any differenceS?
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Mace
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mace » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:45 am

I love the symbolism in the Mr C. and Renzo arm wrestling scene. Cooper/Bob wrestling with "The Arm."

I really liked how Mr. C moved Renzo's arm like it was a lever. As he is switching it between different positions (like an electrical switch) he's also delivering a commentary on what each position feels like/represents.

The scene is both goofy and profound at the same time.
One of my favorite scenes from The Return.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:46 am

claaa7 wrote:
Cooperscoffeecup wrote:Showtime have made available Part 1 on facebook. I haven't looked at any more than the opening two scenes, but it mentions it has been re-edited by David Lynch. Is this their push for the last minute subscribers who will binge in the remaining weeks?


that's interesting.. how long is it? did you notice any differenceS?


I havent watched Part 1 for a while, so not too sure I would notice any slight differences. It's length is 1.01, which would be longer than originally aired? I am only at the point of shovels being delivered so have a way to go yet. :)
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby bosguy1981 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:58 am

claaa7 wrote:
Cooperscoffeecup wrote:Showtime have made available Part 1 on facebook. I haven't looked at any more than the opening two scenes, but it mentions it has been re-edited by David Lynch. Is this their push for the last minute subscribers who will binge in the remaining weeks?


that's interesting.. how long is it? did you notice any differenceS?


I think they posted those on YouTube a while back, shortly after the premiere. The nudity is covered by black bars (including the breasts on the statue in the Red Room! ha, way to go David Lynch!) and the bad language was replaced with what were apparently alternate audio takes where the actors say "fork" instead of "fuck." I haven't seen it but this is what I remember being reported a few weeks ago.
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Cooperscoffeecup » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:09 am

bosguy1981 wrote:
claaa7 wrote:
Cooperscoffeecup wrote:Showtime have made available Part 1 on facebook. I haven't looked at any more than the opening two scenes, but it mentions it has been re-edited by David Lynch. Is this their push for the last minute subscribers who will binge in the remaining weeks?


that's interesting.. how long is it? did you notice any differenceS?


I think they posted those on YouTube a while back, shortly after the premiere. The nudity is covered by black bars (including the breasts on the statue in the Red Room! ha, way to go David Lynch!) and the bad language was replaced with what were apparently alternate audio takes where the actors say "fork" instead of "fuck." I haven't seen it but this is what I remember being reported a few weeks ago.


You are right, I just went to the box scene and there are black bars. LOL.
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Dreamy Audrey
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:14 am

There are even black bars on the experiment. As if you'd seen much on that blurry thing before :D
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Novalis
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Novalis » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:17 am

sewhite2000 wrote:
ScarFace32 wrote:
Electric Tree wrote:I'm staying in the "there's nothing to the final Big Ed scene except a guy who's mulling over his life and losses" group. People are looking for (and apparently finding) something that isnt there.


But how can that reflection be an editing mistake?


How? I don't know. How were the airplane windows and the motel door and the head of the woman who was just shot and the envelope with the wrong and everything else that people keep saying has Cosmic Significance and HAVE NEVER BEEN MENTIONED AGAIN? Were those mistakes, or were those INCREDIBLY SIGNIFICANT EVENTS that are all going to ve revealed in the final five episodes? People are going nuts about a couple of seconds of Ed's reflection when there is zero history in the show that you need to freeze frame to catch significant events. People want to show how incredibly clever they are, but I really don't think Lynch and Frost have any interest in the freeze-frame game.


Since I work with visual analysis all the time one of the distinctions I am always making is that between meaning and significance. As I see it a thing can be significant while being completely meaningless, and indeed vice versa. I also have to think about authorial intention and whether to bracket it or not. I have to think about the production process, and the consumption process. I have to think about reception. I have to think about the contexts of production and consumption. Each of these factors generates the possibility of significance. For example, if a production error remains in a film because a director thought it added something to a scene, then we are not talking about something of 'cosmic' importance upon which the plot will pivot, but a detail that people writing about the film might want to include in their inventory of references to the working methods of the director. That is, for me, a significant thing. Not because it is meaningful in terms of unfolding story but because it is evidence of artistic method, which is at the end of the day just as important to me as watching the mystery of the story unfold. I'm not saying that anyone else should be interested in this aspect or attach importance to it, merely that some of us might be, and we're not necessarily in the freeze-frame breadcrumbing guess-the-plot-cleverpants camp you think we are.
As a matter of fact, 'Chalfont' was the name of the people that rented this space before. Two Chalfonts. Weird, huh?
BGate
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby BGate » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:21 am

chromereflectsimage wrote:
Pinky wrote:
ScarFace32 wrote:
What does Ray say about the Dutchman's again?



he says 'but it's not a real place'


Bad Cooper asked 'Phillip Jeffries' back in the first episode whether he was still 'nowhere'.... could this 'nowhere' and 'not a real place' be the Dutchman's? Is this the place of non-existence? Just a thought.


Also, importantly, Evil Coop says, "I know WHAT it is" and not "I know WHERE it is".
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Re: Part 13 - What story is that, Charlie? (SPOILERS)

Postby Jasper » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:36 am

claaa7 wrote:i would have liked James' Roadhouse scene even more if he had sung a new take of the vocals over the classic instrumental. i believe that the neutered high pitch voice is really the only thing that makes people Think that song is so ridiciolous. it's actually a pretty well written / well orchestrated Little pop tune with a nice '50's nostalgia vibe imo and tbh I have really been waiting to see James again.


I read an interview with James Marshall a few years ago, before The Return was announced. They asked James if he'd ever be willing to perform Just You in a live setting, like at a Peaks convention or something like that. He said that he'd probably be willing to do it, but that he'd have to sing it in a lower key, because there's no way he could sing it as high as he did back then. He said that even back then it was difficult, but for some reason Lynch had wanted him to sing it like that, way higher than his comfortable singing range.

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