Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Discussion of each of the 18 parts of Twin Peaks the Return

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

User avatar
n00bj0b
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:17 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby n00bj0b » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:06 pm

Also just realized the green handed dudes name Freddie Sykes is the name of the One Armed Man in The Fugitive....sorry if I'm late to the game on this.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Posts: 2058
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:06 pm

"...And last night I had another Monica Bellucci dream!"

Okay, so thoughts as they came and were finally assembled: What a fucking show.

The Lois Duffy case that spawned Blue Rose - a clear case of doppelgängers - is fascinating. I want more; I love all this crazy Frostian/Engels(?) FBI lore. And the OTT high-tech computer lair is awesome. And for me, Tammy is better and better opposite Ferrer and Lynch. Chrysta Bell works in that environment and in that high-flying Weird Tales context. She delivers exposition about tulpas (a phenomenon I had no idea this series would be exploring - wow) beautifully.

Lucy and Cole reconnecting and howling at each other was gold. I loved that Lucy is still doing the thing with the blinking lights. Forster's reactions to both of them are perfect as always.

Cole remains Lynch's id/hero-self/goofy parody of his own eccentricities or peccadilloes - first all the nights with pretty ladies and Bordeaux while Albert is hard at work, then he wanders in to crash Albert and Tammy's serious exploration with "coffee time" and window wiper shenanigans, then a Very Important Dream about him and international sex symbol Monica Bellucci. It is his most imperfect self run rampant, yet it is all also deeply pertinent to his work - the Bellucci dream goes from comical to quickly hypnotic, fascinating and foreboding as the music builds, and then Cole sees himself in the past, young, "long ago", like so many on the show - and then he and Albert sink back into the dream/memory unsteadily, as they remember Jeffries' words about Cooper which have spooked me for over 20 years. I love it.

Diane and Janey-E - another Vertigo/Laura-esque film noir connection. Intriguing.

Thrilled to finally see Owain Rhys-Davies as henpecked FBI Agent Tom Wilson in Vegas; he was all over social media during filming, and I hope there is more of him. Jay R. Ferguson from The Real O'Neals was his deranged superior - he appeared in a great-looking indie flick with Sheryl Lee and Grace Zabriskie, The Makings of You. I dunno if it ever came out but I loved the trailer (here).

Everything in the Jackabbits' Palace sequence - from the drone shots of the woods to the traverse through it, to the portal to the end - was unspeakably beautiful. Anyone who says The Return has no visual splendor doesn't pay enough attention. Their journey, the giant wrecked tree reminded me so much of Peter Weir's Picnic at Hanging Rock. And as a decades-old Peaks fan it was surprisingly emotional for me to finally see a portal to the White Lodge, apparently made of milk and gold/honey? as a parallel to the Glastonberry Grove portal to the Black Lodge, which has the scorched engine oil. I never thought I'd ever see these things. Andy's lore download (complete with Laura and her FWWM angel bursting the picture into color - another emotional moment for me, and it seemed Andy as well) and the revelation of the Giant's true name, the Fireman, was amazing. Just incredible stuff. Oh, and Harry Goaz totally sold Andy's heroism and courage in the face of the unknown as the vortex roared open. The shots of him as he stared into it were awesome. Pure of heart.

Having Naido back in this way is fantastic. I keep thinking she is actually Judy, hence the monkey-like noises, but I may be biased given the old fan lore from Bob Engels about how they intended for Joan Chen to play Judy as Josie's identical cousin in other TP films. I don't know what to make of the drunk in the cells though - I think that was Jay Aaseng, i.e. not the Billy we saw a few weeks back. Assuming there can't be two Billys. I haven't read all the discussion so someone refresh me if there's a way to link all the info on Billy, Audrey, Tina, etc. - I was half-sure the young girl's mother could be Audrey. And I think the dark music hinted at something like that. But did Charlie suggest that Tina was Billy's other lover? I can't recall.

Cool hearing the same electric feedback grind noise on the shots of the trees as the TPSD entered the woods that we heard in all the teasers.

I was hoping we'd see cute Jake Wardle again as Freddie Sykes, and now it turns out he's quite important. His long anecdote - full of jaunty British stereotype vernacular right out of Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins - was classic Lynch, in both the mysticism and the heartfelt and sincere earnestness of its Old Hollywood artificiality. James' presence was especially melancholy. He remembers being that young, and now his life has come down to him minding the rich man's hotel in uniform with young men half his age. Another example of time and weathering as the show's core themes - I think James Marshall is especially good now that he's grown older. I already mentioned how reminiscent I found that basement of BOB's lair in the European pilot. I don't think that's coincidence.

I got nothing to say about Sarah others haven't said. Sarah's core is a black abyss for the Mother (patterned after Lynch's own avant-garde art) and Laura's in part 2 was full of white light. The question is, if Sarah was infected with the insect creature in 1956 (the young girl in part 8 ), has she always been a host for the Mother/creature/whatever, a sleeper agent all this time, or did she become fully corrupted in the last 25 years? I don't believe the Sarah we knew in 1989 was hiding this side. Maybe it was dormant until after Leland and Laura passed.

I liked the Lissie song. Sue me! It was something different, and I think some of its lyrics related to Cooper/Dougie while also being redolent of the romantic, comforting Old West/cowboy fantasies Lynch has hewed to in some of his work, including the iconography Sonny Jim has in his room.

Fuck Chad!
Last edited by N. Needleman on Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
User avatar
BigEd
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 9:50 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:07 pm

sewhite2000 wrote:More than one person has theorized that Audrey is either conscious but institutionalized or comatose and institutionalized, and the names of these people she thinks she knows and keeps referencing may just be name's she's heard people in the institution say. And the one girl apparently spends too much time "getting high in the nut house", which could mean she's one of the employees


Excellent! I'll have to chew on this one....
Snailhead
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:45 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Snailhead » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:09 pm

Damn, if that guy in the jail cell is Billy ... poor Audrey! I was hoping he was gonna be a hottie as a contrast with Charlie. Well, there's still 4 hours for her to end up with Cooper. :wink:

I'm pumped for part 15 - I'm anticipating uncharted territory.

Another comment about this wonderful, wonderful episode - it was quite refreshing to see Chad get arrested so efficiently. I was anticipating having to watch the Sheriff's Dept slowly piece together clues of Chad's involvement and that he wouldn't get caught any time soon.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Posts: 2058
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:11 pm

It can't be Billy, can it? He's credited as "Drunk" - it's Jay Aaseng. Didn't we see Billy in part 6 or 7?
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
Kinbote
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:50 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Kinbote » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:13 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:
sycamore wrote:Or a flash-forward? This being the only scene from his vision that we (the viewers) haven't seen yet.


I think it's definitely a flash-forward. My guess? Perhaps she is brought out to identify the "correct" Cooper in the finale. They were definitely in the hallway of the police station.


I think you are on to something. I just watched that scene again, and it might be the creepiest part of the entire episode. Lucy looks very pale and frightened, and the tremor effect seems to be the same as the one shown a few seconds earlier when the two Coopers are separating.
User avatar
BigEd
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 9:50 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:16 pm

nick1218 wrote:With the green glove story, it has me wondering if Naomi had been sucked up to get her super human strentgh


Do you mean Nadine?
Snailhead
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:45 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby Snailhead » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:17 pm

Yeah my gut told me that what Andy saw with Lucy while in the [White Lodge?] was a flash forward. Either that or a flashback to something important that happened to Andy and Lucy that we'll learn about later on.
User avatar
chromereflectsimage
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:03 am

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby chromereflectsimage » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:20 pm

N. Needleman wrote:It can't be Billy, can it? He's credited as "Drunk" - it's Jay Aaseng. Didn't we see Billy in part 6 or 7?

He was bleeding out of his nose and mouth like Audrey said he was in her dream. The guy who got his truck stolen was credited as 'farmer'
User avatar
N. Needleman
Posts: 2058
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:25 pm

Okay then.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
User avatar
BigEd
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 9:50 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:26 pm

blackcoffeemoonlight wrote:Can anyone forecast Diane's angle in all of this - her motivations for good or evil and where we are headed with her storyline?

Very unpredictable at this juncture.



Esselgee wrote:So Diane has never seen a picture of her half sister's husband? I guess she didn't go to the wedding either. It sounds like Janey-E wasn't originally from Las Vegas. Did she move there after she met Dougie or before?


Diane is one of the biggest variables at this point. It could range from:

a) she only encountered Mr. C after he first left Twin Peaks and she has had absolutely nothing to do with him or her half-sister (Janey-E) that whole time

to...

b) She has been "with" Mr. C the whole time, set up her half sister to marry him, helped Mr. C manufacture Dougie Jones and helped him complete the switcherroo of Dougie into his place

We've been told by LVPD that Dougie Jones didn't exist prior to 1997 (I think that's the correct year). 1997 Dougie Jones may have been Mr. C marrying Diane's half-sister and ultimately leaving his wedding ring in Briggs' stomach to divert the FBI to LV Dougie. Remember: "Las Vegas?" "They haven't asked me yet." Now they've asked.

Maybe manufactured Dougie only existed a short time.
User avatar
sycamore
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 9:41 am

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby sycamore » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:33 pm

OK, so let's talk return to talking about manufacturing ... as in the one-armed man's assertion that Dougie Jones (the 'other' Dougie; the one we first see with Jade) was manufactured way back in part 3.

In part 14, Tamara Preston says to Albert Rosenfield that Lois Duffy (case#1, Olympia, the dying woman who said, "I am like a blue rose") is a tulpa. A Tulpa. Here's a concept we all need to read about. A blue rose doesn't exist in nature. Neither does a tulpa. Remember the word 'nonexistent' being used in parts 1/2/3?

This is just the beginning of my own research, but the concept seems to go back as far as a dugpa and tulpas are written about in the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

Below are a few important concepts from a few websites about tulpas and thoughtforms. Here's the beginnings of our tulpa 101 reader:

The word 'tulpa' comes from the Tibetan phrase or words 'to construct' or 'to build or create'. They’re able to think and make decisions on their own with their own free will, despite the fact that you’ve created and manifested them in your head.
http://howtolucid.com/tulpa-guide

A 'thoughtform'; an emanation or a manifestation; magic formations generated by a powerful concentration of thought. Once the tulpa is endowed with enough vitality to be capable of playing the part of a real being, it tends to free itself from its maker's control. This, say Tibetan occultists, happens nearly mechanically, just as the child, when his body is completed and able to live apart, leaves its mother's womb.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa

A tulpa is an autonomous entity existing within the brain of a 'host'. They are distinct from the host in that they possess their own personality, opinions, and actions, which are independent of the host's, and are conscious entities in that they possess awareness of themselves and the world. A fully-formed tulpa is, or highly resembles to an indistinguishable point, an actual other sentient, sapient being coinhabiting with the host consciousness.
https://tulpa.io/what-is-a-tulpa

Tulpas, also known as thoughtforms are frequently used in ceremonial or chaos magick. A tulpa is the given name to anything formed through the meditation (focusing) of an idea. The theory is that if you meditate hard enough on an idea, it will materialize. Tibetan monks practice this often, and teach it as part of their learning. Tulpa do not have to be live-creatures but can also be inanimate objects, animals, furniture, or creatures. There is a theory that the entire universe was made through tulpa meditation. A tulpa is hard to define, as anything could possibly be a tulpa. While the idea is still being focused on, the object or creature may change & morph into different forms as the idea itself changes. Tulpa can only be destroyed by eliminating the thought (if the tulpa is not yet formed properly), or the diluting the concentration of the thought, then destroying the object or creature.
http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Tulpa

A tulpa is an entity created in the mind, acting independently of, and parallel to your own consciousness. They are able to think, and have their own free will, emotions, and memories. In short, a tulpa is like a sentient person living in your head, separate from you.
https://www.tulpa.info
(this seems to be the most comprehensive website about tulpas)

Much that is to be seen now of a distressing nature in the world can be directly traced to the wrong manipulation of mental matter by man. The selfishness, the sordid motives, the prompt response to evil impulses for which the human race has been distinguished, has brought about a condition of affairs unparalleled in the system. A gigantic thought-form hovers over the entire human family, built by men everywhere during the ages, energised by the insane desires and evil inclinations of all that is worst in man's nature, and kept alive by the promptings of his lower desires. This thought-form has to be broken up and dissipated by man himself.
http://www.esoteric-philosophy.net/thoutforms.html

As you can see, there's so much to learn about tulpas and thoughtforms. And after you start to read some of this, THEN, let's talk about Dougie, Mr C, and Cooper. And Audrey. And Mother. And ... there's a whole new light on everything because the world just spun.

"Who do you think that is?!" - Says Phillip Jeffries to Gordon Cole (while pointing at Dale Cooper).

Who's real, who's a doppelganger, who's a tulpa?

Just to free-associate here: It’s always been easy to theorize that when Agent Cooper walked into the Black Lodge, there was a nefarious Cooper Doppelganger waiting in some dark corner where all the doppelgangers linger, ready to take his place. Did Cooper somehow conjure Mr. C — similar to how Leland maybe-sorta conjured BOB, in one of the 10,000 explanations for what BOB is? Is the Black Lodge a place that creates nasty beings who invade our Earth, or does our Earth create the Black Lodge out of miserable human nastiness?
http://ew.com/recap/twin-peaks-season-3-episode-14/amp
Last edited by sycamore on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
TheAlien
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:01 pm
Location: Mind

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby TheAlien » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:34 pm

Like episode 8, this one is so crucial :shock:
For I am I: ergo, the truth of myself; my own sphinx, conflict, chaos, vortex—asymmetric to all rhythms, oblique to all paths. I am the prism between black and white: mine own unison in duality.
― Austin Osman Spare
User avatar
iar
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:17 pm
Location: Wales

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby iar » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:39 pm

I'm beginning to think that Audrey is the key to a lot of this.

That conversation at the Roadhouse, it's bothering me. It sounds a lot like Lynch dialogue in MD and IE. The girl forgetting if her 'uncle' is there or not is important. I just don't know why. Speaking of those girls at the Roadhouse, Lissie's song felt appropriate to me because of the lyrics.


I haven't lost my hope
Even though I am so far from my home

I've been living my life on the edge
Slip and fall if I take one more step

All that you lost, you get back
And all that you want, you can have

....

I've been dancing in the moonlight
I've been laughing with this firelight
Living, I've been giving
I've been living with the firelight
I'll be fine, fine
I'll be fine, fine
I'll be fine, fine, fine



We've talked a bit about the meaning of 'The Return'; it seems to be working on many levels. Viewers returning, Coop returning, maybe Audrey returning (from where?). This song sounded hopeful, the sound of movement...back... back... it's still out of sight and out of touch, but we're moving..
dropkick23
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: Part 14 - We are like the dreamer (SPOILERS)

Postby dropkick23 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:49 pm

thedarktrees wrote:Any ideas as to why Frank would tell Cole about the missing pages and their reference to Cooper, but NOT the info about Jack Rabbit's Palace, given its major connections to Cooper and Briggs?


I've been considering two similar but different timelines running side by side - in one with no tube Bobby says his dead left some "stuff" would be the one in which Frank called Gordon about the diary, the other involved the tube and JR's palace. Probably wrong, but I see what i see.

Return to “Parts Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests